Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2019, 03:44 PM   #1
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Back up or not to back up. that is the question

So here's the "Ace Mechanic" off to coffee with my honey. Leap in the coupe, start the engine and put it in reverse, let the clutch out and it just sits there. Take the roadster to coffee and upon returning jack the rear up and put it on jack stands, I can turn a rear wheel forward and the opposite rear revolves backward. Put it in reverse and both wheels sort of idle along in reverse, with the motor running. All three forward gears seem to spin the wheel a bit faster so I take out the jack-stands and with the wheels on the ground there is no reverse, push the car outside and there are three speeds forward but no reverse.Solenoid clicks in and out with a loud "click." Sort of puzzles me, no bad sounds last night as I drove home from Livermore to Danville, about 20+ miles, O/D worked just fine. Any clues what I should look for and how to go about it? Mitchell transmission ahead of a Borg Warner O/D welded into the torque tube. Controlled by electric solenoid and push/pull cable. Has worked well for a couple of years with no issues. (See the last Restorer

Thanks
Ace is stumped at the moment.
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 04:02 PM   #2
Dick Steinkamp
Senior Member
 
Dick Steinkamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 1,120
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

Did you ever back up with the OD engaged?
__________________
All steel from pedal to wheel
Dick Steinkamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-19-2019, 04:12 PM   #3
Dave in MN
Senior Member
 
Dave in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jordan, MN
Posts: 1,179
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

One Borg Warner overdrive I drove on a '28 Phaeton free wheeled in overdrive. This would mean it would not move the car in reverse if the overdrive is engaged. You might get a wheel-spin in reverse when on jack stands due to the internal friction. I think the car had to be moving to ensure the overdrive either went in or out of engagement...It has been so long now that I cannot remember...
So it may be okay or it may not be but it seems it is stuck in overdrive.
Let us know what you find!
Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 07-19-2019 at 07:09 PM.
Dave in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 05:05 PM   #4
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,435
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

Inside the Borg Warner is a sheet metal oil shield. It is prone to becoming bent by not being oriented correctly. If it becomes bent it will not allow the cable to pull it completely out of the overdrive mode, and even with the solenoid not powered you will not be able to back up.

The old motors manual caution about this phenonium.

I had it happen to me one time, I backed the car out of the garage and drove to the post office using the overdrive on the way, When I went to back up at the post office I could not.

Unfortunately the only resolve is to take the overdrive apart and bend the oil shield back into place.

Go to the web site of the Santa Anita A's and under my name scroll to the overdrive section, there are photos and information about it.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 05:09 PM   #5
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,435
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

Pull up the link and scroll to photos 26 and 27.

Tom Endy

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ner-Repair.pdf
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 10:42 AM   #6
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

So it appears that the oil may have leaked past the seal into the banjo. While on the jack stands I ran the rpm up to shift into O/D and there is considerable noise coming from the O/D unit. I will drain both it and the banjo and am in the process of removing the whole thing for disassembly and possible repair or replacement. Should have done that before I installed it, probably would have saved myself a lot of money. But then part of the hobby is learning, isn't it?
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 11:32 AM   #7
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 3,846
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveymc29 View Post
But then part of the hobby is learning, isn't it?
Learning and a reason to buy more TOOLS!!
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.
Y-Blockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2019, 09:01 PM   #8
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

So, drained the O?D into a large pan and figured it might have been a bit low. Set that aside and proceeded to remove the differential and got that out this afternoon. Looked at the oil and recon it to be a full Qt. As I recall that is the amount I put in it when I got it, so must be other than low oil that caused the malfunction. Won't be doing much for a couple or three days but I will let you know what I find when I open it up. Tom Endy has a load of info on the Santa Ana A;s site that may get me back on the road. If it appears too much money, I do have another stock torque tube to get by til I hit the lotto and can buy A495, or maybe a Ford Tri-motor. Always liked to watch them fly. Bush Pilot, Bill Woods had one he flew over our house two or three times a week. It is in the museum in Multnoma Or. right behind the Spruce Goose, As is his Stagger Wing Beach which I also saw often.
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 01:50 AM   #9
History
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 151
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

I've been to that aviation museum, it is unbelievable for anyone who's interested in aviation. They also have an sr-71 which was inspired by the model a (all black) .

Good luck with your driveline problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daveymc29 View Post
So, drained the O?D into a large pan and figured it might have been a bit low. Set that aside and proceeded to remove the differential and got that out this afternoon. Looked at the oil and recon it to be a full Qt. As I recall that is the amount I put in it when I got it, so must be other than low oil that caused the malfunction. Won't be doing much for a couple or three days but I will let you know what I find when I open it up. Tom Endy has a load of info on the Santa Ana A;s site that may get me back on the road. If it appears too much money, I do have another stock torque tube to get by til I hit the lotto and can buy A495, or maybe a Ford Tri-motor. Always liked to watch them fly. Bush Pilot, Bill Woods had one he flew over our house two or three times a week. It is in the museum in Multnoma Or. right behind the Spruce Goose, As is his Stagger Wing Beach which I also saw often.
History is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 09:48 AM   #10
Mike Peters
Senior Member
 
Mike Peters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South East Wisconsin
Posts: 576
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

We've run a B/W overdrive in our 28 Tudor for many years with no trouble, until last fall on a club tour. Let's just say that it made a "clunk" sound and that was it. No forward and no reverse. Borgs are great until they die a sudden death. Now have a Mitchell waiting to be installed.
Mike Peters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2019, 10:16 PM   #11
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,293
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

So here's the "Ace Mechanic" with egg all over his face. The good news is the overdrive looks like new inside. the bad news is that I took it apart to find that out. The problem was I couldn't make it back up because it was in free wheeling. Stupid mistake, but I did learn one of my wheel bearings is making a lot of noise, so some good has come of all this time spent pulling things apart. Live and learn, jokes on me this time.
Thanks to all that offered help tips. I hope I have given you all another good laugh.
Dave Mc Arthur
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2019, 10:28 PM   #12
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,286
Default Re: Back up or not to back up. that is the question

Not laughing - just pleased things turned out as well as they did.
__________________
Nobody told me rigor could start while I'm still alive.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 PM.