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Old 11-05-2016, 09:40 PM   #1
ian Simpson
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Default 1927 Model A's

The other night at a club meeting we got into a discussion about the possibility of a "1927 Model A".

I believe that the first Model A's were built and sold in the fall 0f 1927 and that is possible that any sold in the UK before January 1928 would be registered as 1927 vehicles regardless of what Ford called them.

With the varying regulations across the USA and Canada is it possible that some were registered as 1927 vehicles in N. America?
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Old 11-05-2016, 10:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

I would say yes if, they were sold/registered before the end of the year. We have heard often here about cars that have a year newer registration/title then the manufacture of the car.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

I have a 1931 American Austin. We know that it was built in 1930, however, as there are other American Austins with later serial numbers that are licensed as 1930 models.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

IIRC, in the US the Model A debuted on December 2nd, 1927. Does any one know when it first came out in Canada?
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ian Simpson View Post
...... and that is possible that any sold in the UK before January 1928 would be registered as 1927 vehicles regardless of what Ford called them.....
We have no verified record of any 1927 model still existing here in the UK, and in fact the earliest advertisement I've found mentioning the presence of a Model A Ford in the UK is in a newspaper on 4th Jan 1928 stating "....new Ford... first public exhibition in Manchester ... City Exhibition Hall Manchester Jan 11th-14th". However Nevins and Hill Ford on six Continents implies an A was shown in Dec 1927 at the Holland Park Show London. ( no supporting evidence found for this ) Thus presumably one had been shipped over from USA in time for that event as it is most unlikely that the Trafford Park Manchester plant had swung into A production by then. Late spring '28 seems to be the time when Trafford Park got back in serious production

Last edited by johnbuckley; 11-06-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

in illinois titles did not come out until 1934 and I dont think most people bothered with them until the next owner registered the car with a bill of sale and then it was what ever year you put down thats why I think a lot of guys thought to make the car as new as possible except with real old cars then they made them older.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

I seem to remember the jewel city model A club in Glendale California has/had a member with a 1927 model A
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Old 11-07-2016, 09:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbuckley View Post
We have no verified record of any 1927 model still existing here in the UK, and in fact the earliest advertisement I've found mentioning the presence of a Model A Ford in the UK is in a newspaper on 4th Jan 1928 stating "....new Ford... first public exhibition in Manchester ... City Exhibition Hall Manchester Jan 11th-14th". However Nevins and Hill Ford on six Continents implies an A was shown in Dec 1927 at the Holland Park Show London. ( no supporting evidence found for this ) Thus presumably one had been shipped over from USA in time for that event as it is most unlikely that the Trafford Park Manchester plant had swung into A production by then. Late spring '28 seems to be the time when Trafford Park got back in serious production
John,

Here is your "supporting evidence" to back-up what Nevins and Hill stated:

These are two original press photos, dated 7 December 1927, showing the introduction of the Ford Model A at the Holland Park Hall (according to the printed text on the back of these photos):

The New "Sports Coupé":


...and The New "Touring Car":


Look closely at the details - Note not only the right hand drive and the open bumpers, but check out the interesting "wing mounted side lights", which, according to "The NEW FORD CAR" by E.T.Brown (London 1928) p. 81, "A feature of the side lamps, which are wing mounted, is that the inside can be extracted for use as an inspection lamp (Fig. 34)."





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Old 11-08-2016, 03:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Just love those RHD photos Brad.

Just to add a little fuel to the fire, according to the Dearborn engine release logs, the first engines released for RHD were, A1481, A1484, and A 1496 on December 5th 1927.

The December 9th 1927 Autocar magazine has an extensive article on the New Ford and pictures RHD roadster, coupe, saloon (tudor) and chassis, as well as the above two models. When you look closely at Brad's photos, you can see they had some English content as well. I wonder whether the ones shown at the Holland Park exhibition were the small bore 'AF' versions. As these motors get a mention in the article. It also amazes me that they could exhibit the full range, of cars, when the rest of the 'Ford' world was screaming for them. Here in NZ, the A first went on display in May 1928. We must have been down the pecking order a bit.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Page 1223 Autocar.jpg (39.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg RHD Early Roadster.jpg (39.1 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg RHD Early Coupe.jpg (40.1 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg RHD Early Tudor.jpg (47.8 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg RHD Tudor.jpg (54.4 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg Engine Left Side.jpg (42.4 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg AS19280514.2.167.1-a1-700w-c32-1040-3911-3160-4280.jpg (17.0 KB, 37 views)
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Old 11-08-2016, 08:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

As far as "model year" goes, the first official model year for the "new Ford" Model A, was 1928.

Yes, there were examples produced in late 1927.

The idea of annual model-year updates was still somewhat new, and not yet universally accepted across the entire industry, especially where heavy trucks were concerned.

And then there's the whole matter of vehicle registration & title provenance.

It gets fuzzy.

When WW II ended, some held-over 1942 models were released for public sale in late 1945, and were sold & registered as "1945" vehicles, even though there were no "official" 1945 model cars produced in the US.

If I owned an early A, produced in late 1927, I'm sure I would want to highlight that fact, but I'm not sure I would refer to it as a "1927"...
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Old 11-08-2016, 10:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Chief didn't get a Birth Certificate until '39 & through a mistake, it showed him born in '13, instead of '12.
IF, you didn't know when you were born, HOW OLD WOULD YOU BE???
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Old 11-08-2016, 01:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Brad...brilliant pictures .... no doubt about those definite supporting evidence indeed...never seen those before... fantastic

Last edited by johnbuckley; 11-08-2016 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

The small bore block was cast at the Fordson tractor plant in Cork Ireland and machined at the Trafford Park Manchester plant . I doubt if any of the pictured cars were small bore . All small bore engines were prefixed "AF" so those early RHD numbers would have been 24 HP . I wonder what makes an engine RHD ??? I cant think of anything .I think those numbers could relate to complete vehicles maybe.

John in very cold dark rain on the way Suffolk County England .

PS Brad thanks for the pics ,brilliant !!!
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Thinking about it these must be very very early cars . They were in London on 7th Dec 1927 and no doubt shipped in complete fom Detroit . The Ford vessel would have to been loaded in early November . A steam cargo vessel back then made around 10 knots on a good day across 3000 miles of ocean and then the transit handling and exibition setup on top of that .

John in same place same weather .
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Old 11-08-2016, 03:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Note also the Dunlop tyres (tires)..... probably not from the USA.

Brad in sunny Maryland

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Old 11-09-2016, 06:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Outstanding question and topic for us E28 folks and all Model A enthusiast!
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Old 11-09-2016, 09:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

When I completed my Light Delivery, A1276, I wanted to put on Year of Mfg. plates, California has the Year of Mfg. program, I was advised the year model of my A is 1928, even though the engine went to Assembly on Dec. 3, 1927, I had to use 1928 Plates, could not use 1927 Plates.

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Old 11-09-2016, 11:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

The following is from my research on the 1927 cars going to England:

November 10, 1927: The Detroit Times:

Assembly had started at Fordson. It was reported that the new Ford car was on it’s way to England:

“The first shipments of new Ford cars passed through Windsor today en route from Detroit to Boston. They will be shipped to England and put on exhibition immediately after their arrival.”

“The shipments are understood to be among the first taken from Ford plants in Detroit and Fordson…to be displayed in London December 7 to 12.”

SO...This report in the Detroit Times of November 10, 1927 would of meant that those engines which were in those cars ranged from A1 through A460. UNLESS...unless, as Bick says that they could have those later numbers as he indicated. For sure...there must of been other shipments.

There was no mention of those cars in the November 10 article as being RHD.

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Old 11-10-2016, 12:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

The earliest indication within the engine logs for which I have indicate engines #A1188 and A1219 were RHD engines built December 2, 1927 BUT were shipped for "Export" on December 6, 1927...There must be more to the story and other RHD engines assembled before this date to get them into the two cars in the phots above...Just whjat they were I do not know.

There are some other engines mentioned for Export but not sure if they are RHD: A12, 13, 14 (October 21); A411, 463 (November 11); A672 (November 25); and A700 (November 28).

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Old 11-10-2016, 12:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1927 Model A's

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbuckley View Post
We have no verified record of any 1927 model still existing here in the UK, and in fact the earliest advertisement I've found mentioning the presence of a Model A Ford in the UK is in a newspaper on 4th Jan 1928 stating "....new Ford... first public exhibition in Manchester ... City Exhibition Hall Manchester Jan 11th-14th". However Nevins and Hill Ford on six Continents implies an A was shown in Dec 1927 at the Holland Park Show London. ( no supporting evidence found for this ) Thus presumably one had been shipped over from USA in time for that event as it is most unlikely that the Trafford Park Manchester plant had swung into A production by then. Late spring '28 seems to be the time when Trafford Park got back in serious production
John,

I am sure you tried, but if not, did you try a search of the old newspapers of the times for an article about this "show"?

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