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Old 04-10-2013, 09:08 AM   #1
Christoph
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Default New engine does GREAT, but

New engine does a superb job

Running nice and smooth and sounds GREAT
(you wont believe its in its break-in-phase...).

Once i start driving, sadly, there is some noise
from rear-engine/gearbox/clutch area.

Especially once going off the throttle.

No way to do real-testing as heavy rains around
Drove it for 15 Minutes up to now.

When changing engines, we took out the old engine with gearbox
and did a test-run of new engine with gearbox on the bench.
No issues there and great shifting -- of course - this gearbox was
good (and hopefully is good)

Put the new engine back in together with gearbox and put it onto
Float-A motor (had to change things anyway as original rig was
OLD and rubber-parts badly-worn-out).

Float a motor looks good and i think height is correct.
(rounded part of fly-wheel-housing is on height of upper-frame)
Front-side-height and alignment for sure is perfect.
(crank fits in perfect)

Will take wood parts out again and will open clutch inspection
plate next.

Might Radius-ball be to tight or too loose??
(old oil-rotten rubber-ball; no springs; somewhat tightened....)

PLEASE come back with your ideas before i start taking
gearbox (and engine) out again???

Thank you
Christoph
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:15 AM   #2
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Before leaping into it, have another Model A'er or two drive it. It could be normal A noises?
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:04 AM   #3
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Was the U-joint tight to the back of the tranny when re-installed?? Pilot bearing ck'd/replaced??
Paul in CT
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:10 AM   #4
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Might be something SO simple. One day I had a new REALLY ALARMING! noise---was just the knob loose on my R/H windshield swing out arm!(WHEW!) Bill W.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Christoph, are you sure it is in the trany area or could it be the rear end?
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Christoph
Sounds like it's time to replace the radius ball fittings .
I hope that's the problem.

John Cochran
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Do you have the sheet metal engine pans on the sides of the engine? Sometimes they rattle loudly.

I'd suspect some sort of vibration/interference (floor boards, brake rods, battery box, etc) before I'd assume a mechanical problem inside the clutch/gearbox. Model A engines, especially new tight ones, tend to have vibrations when decelerating.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #8
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

...a minor update

Managed to do a short test drive as no rain for some hours.

Starting to drive, i thought noise might have gone.

The warmer the engine (gearbox) gets, the more noise
there is.
Its a sound with the speed of the driveshaft (i guess)
but out of gearbox area.
Best to spot while just sailing along.

Decided to put car on jacks/stands, turne wheels an
listen with a stethoscope (next weekend)

Jim
Id love to let you drive it
SADLY there is no other "A" arround
( most pre ww2 things are gone somehow)

Normal "A"-noises with my old engine used to be VERY different
(and additional i guess i dont like the Float-A motor )

Flamingo
Good one. Didnt take U-joint away so ididnt have to reinstall
Should have checked it anyway
Pilot bearing was just one year old but its very new now !

Bill
Thank you for make me think positive.
For sure got to get used to new (float-A-motor) noises .
Got to top you... Some time ago i lost the knob of the window-
swing-arm which fell outside the car while driving.
Fancy this ... Pre-war-car parked and fully-grown-owner
skidding on knees through brush-wood....

Fred
Im pretty sure its not the rear-end.
Destroyed the pinion just one year ago, had lots of fun than and
did everything new there (additional i cant stand this idea).

Further ideas wellcome

Will keep you updated
Christoph
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Disconnect the speedometer cable and see what happens. Noise travels. I'd try ANYTHING before pulling anything major. Just a suggestion.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Wow - even more comments while writing my update.
Thank you

John
Come over mate - you seem to be closest other A-driver arround
You got to drive it .
Well i guess you are right, but this seems NOT to be the prob
I might have mislead here.

Brian
Good one here but i didnt reinstall pans as i feared they dont like this float-thing.
Might be good idea to relax a while
and do some more test drives....to get used to new noises

RH
Will investigate according
Had some ideas regarding exhaust too
new silentblocks there....

Will find out about
Christoph
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

What kind of noise, clunk, rattle, hum, schreech? Does it make noise while coasting, clutch in, and with trans in neutral? Do replace the radius ball set up with the correct springs. There should be some "give" there to absorb the shocks of driving. It could be making "clunk clunk" sounds without the springs as shock absorbers. I doubt the Float a Motor is causing any noise, so long as it is tight against the flywheel housing and frame.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

clunking tributary to speed
with gear and in neutral
clutch in and clutch out...
engine on and engine of

no way to influence
i know that would lead us more to the rear...

I doubt the float-a motor causes noises too, but it changes the well
known-to-me-noises of my "A"
And it seems to me that its no advantage to the old-rotten-original.

i guess i should be able find some radius-ball-springs in my collection
called "Offerings to the god of speed"
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

What about the common issue of too long a starter bolt used that goes through to the flywheel and rubs? Would be a constant RPM related noise.......
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Noise changes with speed.

Clutch in, Clutch out, in gear an in Neutral, engine on, engine off makes not difference. Sort of seems that the motor and transmission are out of the picture.

Got to look at what is still turning with the tranny in neutral and the engine off.

Drive shaft, universals, tail shaft bearing, rear end, rear wheels.

Can you "feel" it as well as hear it?
Can you time it to speed, for instance does it time to once each wheel revolution?
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Is the starter drive totally disengaging? Sounds okay when starting? No possibility of broken spring or loose starter spring bolt? Grasping at straws here.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #16
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Is the tab on the special thick washer, that secures the U-joint, engaged in the space between two splines? If not the U-joint may have become loose.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:48 AM   #17
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Thank you so much for your ideas !
I really appreciate that !!

Craig and JBill
Engine starts great and sounds perfect (if not driving)
Starter issues should appear once engine runs.

QGolden
"Can you feel"
Not really, but i am not to sure. Will investigate.

"Does it time to..."
No - its speed-related but i cant count
Maybe just im not able to detect this, as i was not
able to count it when my Pinion was gone a year ago.
Once i had the rear axle out (back than), it was easy
to count...

Tom
I need to check that.
Cant remember what that looks alike.
Will be back regarding this.

Thank you again
Christoph
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Tom

I think you are talking about parts on attached screen-print.
Your idea sounds good to me, because:

We took out engine together with the tranny.
We put tranny to the new engine and did a test drive
on the bench (just each gear for a sec).
We sadly didnt take off the U-joint
It rotated free without being supported
Grease flew all around (best part of the story)

Special-washer (and U-joint) might have come out of its seat
As i didnt loosen it, i sadly didnt check if its tight afterwards.
Shame on me.

Where does this washer go with its nose??
Cant remember as one year since i built in ...
Will investigate
Will get me a stethoscope (screwdriver) to investigate details


Will tell you about
Thank you
Christoph
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:32 AM   #19
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

You need to insert a socket and extension through the center of the U-joint to screw the bolt and washer tight, but first just very lightly turn the bolt in, then spin the washer so you can feel the upset tab fit into the space between the spines. Then do the final tightening of the bolt.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Thank you so much Tom

I do remember that i used a socket and extension through
the center of the U-joint, but i forgot about the rest ....
Will investigate and for sure will be back

Got to confess that i put a new (rebuilt) generator to the
new engine which does not hold your EVR up to now.
Will take EVR out of the "old" generator soon.

I learned lately, that im able to spot on amp-meter, once
(too) loose belt starts to slip

Greetings
Christoph
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:04 AM   #21
Christoph
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Short update

Put car on stands and listened from under the car.
Sadly noise is somewhat "off" once turning wheels by hand (to slow).

No i wont run wheels by engine while being under the car

For sure no wheel-bearing prob.

Noise seems to be out of gearborx and/or U-joint area
(slightly to be heard from both housings via Stethoscope/Screwdriver)

Cant really feel the noise
Even not once driving without floor-wood out and holding
hand to gearbox and U-joint (while driving).

Re-opened gearbox (was long time-open while changing engines)
Tried some fishing in thick oil (NO FUN !!!)
Didnt find things/unnormal things
Didnt find abnormal movement in the gearbox-spindles/axles

Will have to investigate regarding U-joint and upper bearing
of driveshaft...

If the special thick washer and U-joint may have become loose
(as mentioned by Tom) do i have to lower the rear axle to find out about???.

Well i guess i should lower rear end anyway as this is only way to
inspect the driveshaft bearing too ...

Will update
Christoph
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Seems like you have narrowed it down to the U-Joint/tailshaft area....

Can you lift it with the jacks, crib it up on some wood timbers under the Axles, and run it through the gears to listen, NOT under it, but in it?
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:19 PM   #23
Christoph
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Thank you for your help

Tried to run it while sitting in the car and still was
in fear it might jump and accelerate....

Found out, that it took me just one hour (today after work)
to loosen all bolts brakes, rear spring and stuff.
Car is still sitting o own wheels, waiting for a Snyders
package to arrive tomorrow...

Will tell you about outcome.
Thank you
Christoph
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:54 PM   #24
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Maybe "Float A Motor" bolts on Rubber dough nuts are too tight or too loose or part of the FAM is contacting something?

Car looks like a '28 ... does it have the small piece attached to the rear of the U joint "clam shell" that is maybe contacting the cross member if the rear of the engine too low.

Way to check engine angle is to remove carb and put an carburetor choke angle gauge with a "Bubble level" on the carb flange. Should be about 3.5 degrees from horizontal.

If angle is way off sometimes the U Joint might be noisy.

I carried 600 pounds of tools in the trunk of the My '79 Chevy. The rear bushing in the tail shaft of THM 350 wore out quickly Oblong shaped top to bottom.

Tranny guy said it was caused by all the stuff in the trunk causing the drive line angle to be wrong.

There is a magnet to hold gauge to carb flange.
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Last edited by Benson; 04-15-2013 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Spellin' and additional info
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:44 AM   #25
Christoph
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Thank you for your ideas Benson

All rubber-holding-bolts are tightened somewhat
No bad contacts to find.

Car is 1929
Good point regarding clam-shell but no - used to grind that "away".

Angle is about 3 degrees...

Regarding "junk in the trunk"...
Ja i got a trunk and ja i use that just for parts and tools
(including trunk its about 70pounds).
BUT
If the rear of the car goes down, the drivetrain will be more straight !!
Which means that load on the U-joint and the driveshaft-bearing should be low.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:29 AM   #26
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Got to update and got to thank you again.

Your ideas help me as I feel that im not alone and somebody cares
No one to ask around here, so I got to rely on friends in the net!

Good thing is - Vendors package arrived yesterday

70 items delivered

1 item missing

1 item is ……

…the new U-joint i ordered.

It was pretty clear in advance, that i couldnt change parts , but
i took out rear end anyway.

Checked driveshaft bearing .
No bigger bearing clearance
(just as much as i imagined to be there)
…nice and ok
BUT
No sufficient amount of grease around.

Checked U-joint
No bearing clearance at all.
9/16 bolt perfect and tight
all good
More Grease around but might not have been sufficient.

I remember that we put in a high adhesive grease onto parts when we
installed things and I used my grease gun later on for “a while”.
(Allways the point where i put most grease while on start-of-season-grease-session)

I know that it has to be a huge amount of grease till its sufficient for the
driveshaft bearing and I now put in grease as well as this modern
flow-away-type-of-grease (you call that corn-grease?)

Well - i packed enough grease last year - why did things go wrong this year?

Ironically i changed the grease-fitting of the U-Joint to a new one (with a ball inside)
when we had the gearbox out (to change engine).

Resistance of this ball type might have been to high
for my old rotten grease gun

I used the grease-gun after repairs and i remember that i felt the internal
compression, but i dont have a glue, where the grease went to.

For sure i will get me a new grease gun for my next birthday.

Just got the axle back into the car yesterday late in the night
(which made me able to push the car into the garage again)
Wasnt able to tighten nuts and bolts anymore.

Will do that on weekend, drive arround and tell you if it just
was the lack of grease which caused my probs.


Thank you again
Christoph

I learned that im to old to go to work all day and do
car-repairs in evening-hours (once im tired allready)
Should ask for some early-retirement soon
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:26 AM   #27
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

Christoff, Too bad you're FAR away, Gregg won a new grease gun at club raffle & gave it to me, I don't have the talent to use 2 grease guns at the same time. Dog doesn't do lube duty!! Gregg's a good kid, (50 year kid?) he even gave me a feeler gauge he won, it's this l---------l thick, must have 77 blades, LIFE IS GOOD!!! bILL w.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:46 AM   #28
Christoph
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but



Thank you
I would have been proud to hold it

No big difference from your dog to me
- Buster T refuses to do lube duty at all
- i dont do them right....
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #29
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Default Re: New engine does GREAT, but

hello
a way to tell if getting enough greese in u joint housing is to take a bolt out of the odem gear housing on the drive shaft. when you see greese comming from there it should be full. when i put my eng back in my frame it seamed i was putting a lot but did not know where it was going. came on this site and that what was suggested i went pulled a bolt and greese statred comming out the bolt hole
kevin
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