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Old 07-02-2019, 11:15 PM   #1
Chris Haynes
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Default The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I got this E Mail from Terry this evening.

Hello to All,

2 July 2019

Updates

In case someone gets this Email without seeing the article on the new Model A engine, the article can be found at: http://www.modelaengine.com

If anyone has a question, concern, comment, or suggestion, please let me know at model.a.engine@hotmail.com and Iíll do my best to resolve the issue.

New Engine

This project started in 2007 and updates were sent by Email from April 2010 until May 2015 when it stalled because of sky-rocketing cost and lack of quality control. Previous updates can be found at: http://www.modelaengine.com

I apologize to the many people that requested to be on the update list after May 2015. I did not respond because the project stalled. You are now on the list.

I use the term "new engine" loosely because the only new parts are the cylinder block, crankshaft, and connecting rods. All interfaces for mating parts are identical to original and have been documented from original Ford drawings.

Another way to describe the new engine is to say that the exterior looks like a Model A engine however the interior has 1970 engine technology. Changes include 5 main bearings, counterweights on both sides of connecting rods, 2 inch diameter insert main and connecting rod bearings that can be bought at any auto parts store, oil pressure to mains, rods, and camshaft, streamlined intake ports, hard exhaust seats, thicker (3/16") water jacket wall on the water inlet side, Model B water deflector, added material between exhaust ports and cylinder, replaceable cam bearings, rear main seal that is available at any bearing supply house, and many other things.

The good news is that the Model A engine project has been resurrected and is now alive and well.

Cylinder Block

In January 2019, I received a phone call regarding the availability of the new engine, and sadly replied with the news that the project was stalled. The caller just had a newly rebuilt Model A engine fail, and in our conversation, he mentioned that he knew someone that was having replacement cylinder blocks manufactured in China, and asked if I would be interested. I replied that I was interested and wanted to learn more.

I learned that the factory manufactures cylinder blocks, heads, and even short blocks for many applications. I have a copy of their brochure and their clients include Ford, GM, Nissan, Toyota, Land Rover, and many others.

This factory is utilizing "state of the art" processes and quality assurance that will ensure the new Model A engine will have an exterior appearance as the original and machining tolerances similar to modern manufactured engines.

Where this project started and stalled as a one-man project, I am now working with others that have the same enthusiasm as I.

As a means of getting started, both an original cylinder block and the one good casting of the new design from Lodi Iron Works were sent to the factory along with all of my SolidWorks models. The factory measured the original cylinder block to create a SolidWorks model of the exterior and used my SolidWorks models for the interior and machining, and replied with a favorable cost estimate.

Connecting Rod, Main Caps, and Crankshaft

These parts are much simpler than the cylinder block. SolidWorks models have been provided and quotes from the same factory that committed to manufacture the cylinder block have been requested.

One huge advantage of working with a single factory in China is that they are responsible for everything from raw materials to finished product, When this project was active here, many factories would have been involved, and I can imagine a lot of finger pointing.

Next Update

The next update will be after preliminary bids are received for the rest of the parts and a schedule can be worked out. The initial quote for the cylinder block took less than a month, and I am hopeful that the next quote will also be short.





At this time we are hopeful that we will have the first machined samples available by late fall and will send updates on a timely basis.


Terry Burtz, Campbell, Calif.
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:59 AM   #2
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Interesting! Terry is known for his quality work.
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Look forward to hearing more progress. Single sourcing block, crank and rods is a huge advantage.
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

So, did I read that right - the new engines will be done in China? There's nothing wrong with that if no one in your own country can do them. I recall reading that Tod couldn't find a foundry capable of dong the job properly.
I am going to continue keeping an eye on this project!
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:09 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

We shipped 69.1 million tons of iron ore in April.
You'd think someone could make a few blocks out of it.
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Old 07-04-2019, 07:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
So, did I read that right - the new engines will be done in China? There's nothing wrong with that if no one in your own country can do them. I recall reading that Tod couldn't find a foundry capable of dong the job properly.
I am going to continue keeping an eye on this project!

I have 3 foundries here very close to me that want to cast them. the problem I am having here right now is that foundries are all very busy. But after one foundry owner called me yesterday to discuss this, and other things, I believe we are a couple of weeks away from a block using my new process. I also have a foundry that does automatic molding that is interested but it would mean making metal tooling, which I wanted to avoid.


Tod
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Old 07-04-2019, 03:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Now that this concept seems to be nearing availability, how many of you are scheming to build a much higher horsepower version? What are you considering?
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:35 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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I have 3 foundries here very close to me that want to cast them. the problem I am having here right now is that foundries are all very busy. But after one foundry owner called me yesterday to discuss this, and other things, I believe we are a couple of weeks away from a block using my new process. I also have a foundry that does automatic molding that is interested but it would mean making metal tooling, which I wanted to avoid.


Tod
Now THAT is GOOD NEWS!
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:56 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Now THAT is GOOD NEWS!

Yes. I will report back after my meeting next week.



I will probably cast a 3-main iron block, a 3-main aluminum, and a 5 main aluminum this month.



Don't look for it in this thread as I don't want to hi-jack the thread.



Tod
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Old 07-04-2019, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I would like to be able to build a good higher HP reliable engine for serious touring.


If I have a choice, I would much rather BUY AMERICAN and support our own industries.


Our country has suffered a great loss of basic manufacturing industries and for a strong independent country, we need to have the ability to manufacturer ourselves and not have to depend on offshore sources.


This is my opinion and I am sure others may disagree.


Chris W.
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Old 07-05-2019, 09:35 AM   #11
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

It should be easy for the Chinese to cast them. About 15 years ago, I was working with Tractors, specifically Ford 8N, The old Central Tractor, in Iowa, was selling brand new engines from China for under $3000. That's NEW! Not rebuilt! So, it is entirely possible. It is also possible that foundries in the US are not up to casting something like a block. NAFTA and other "Free Trade" deals have stripped us of our skills.
Terry




Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
So, did I read that right - the new engines will be done in China? There's nothing wrong with that if no one in your own country can do them. I recall reading that Tod couldn't find a foundry capable of dong the job properly.
I am going to continue keeping an eye on this project!
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Old 07-05-2019, 03:41 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

[QUOTE=Terry, NJ;1774447 ............brand new engines from China for under $3000. That's NEW! Not rebuilt! So, it is entirely possible. It is also possible that foundries in the US are not up to casting something like a block. NAFTA and other "Free Trade" deals have stripped us of our skills.
Terry[/QUOTE]

Terry you are spot -on that plus the EPA got a bit out of control. By design. Part of 'the Plan.' But that's another story.............
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Old 07-05-2019, 08:00 PM   #13
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Let's really go back in time! Remember Crosely? Powell Crosely came up with a method for stamping the engine blocks. Basically, like stacking a bunch of head gaskets till you had an engine block. This is doable! The trouble was when Croseley's started delaminating and rather than come up with a solution, they started casting their blocks. Here we are,80 years hence, new materials, new methods, new adhesives, etc. It can be done!
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Old 07-05-2019, 10:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWPASADENA View Post
I would like to be able to build a good higher HP reliable engine for serious touring.


If I have a choice, I would much rather BUY AMERICAN and support our own industries.


Our country has suffered a great loss of basic manufacturing industries and for a strong independent country, we need to have the ability to manufacturer ourselves and not have to depend on offshore sources.


This is my opinion and I am sure others may disagree.

Chris W.

I fully understand this but let's think about it. We have the same situation here in Australia - in fact since GM and Ford closed local production, I know people who will not buy either brand because of the way the closures affected our local manufacturing. If every country took the same attitude and their people only bought locally made stuff, what would be the end game for doing so? IMO, because of the smaller scale runs, manufactured good would be more expensive all over the world, the world economy would slow, then, well, we know where that leads.
Everybody thinks that their own country - the one where they grew up and where they feel most comfortable is the best. I think they are all correct and we ignor that to our peril.
Nothing is as simple as we first think.
I have diverged from Model As so I'll leave it at that!
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Old 07-06-2019, 04:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Why did this turn into a political discussion. The post is about a 5 main bearing engine block. It would be nice to keep it about the engine and what it can do and acheive.
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:15 AM   #16
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, I guess I never knew that about the Crosley engines.

Doesn't sound like a very good idea. I don't think I'd want to be involved with that technique.

Usually the old tried and true methods come back to prevail
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Good Morning...All the tried and true methods were once cutting edge and thought to be damn near impossible...just think of Henry figuring out the flat head block as a one piece casting! Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Good Morning...All the tried and true methods were once cutting edge and thought to be damn near impossible...just think of Henry figuring out the flat head block as a one piece casting! Ernie in Arizona
Yes and to think they did a lot of it under cover in the old Greenfield Village shops, that project was kept pretty secret away from prying eyes.

Ford turned the automotive world on it's ear and everybody was trying to play catch up and imitate what Ford had accomplished. The man was a genius.
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Yes and to think they did a lot of it under cover in the old Greenfield Village shops, that project was kept pretty secret away from prying eyes.

Ford turned the automotive world on it's ear and everybody was trying to play catch up and imitate what Ford had accomplished. The man was a genius.
If he was a genius, why did he name his speed boat after his mistress?
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Old 07-07-2019, 08:16 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Because He Could!



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If he was a genius, why did he name his speed boat after his mistress?
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