The Ford Barn

philipswanson · 03-19-2019, 05:03 PM

I drove my '40 wagon for the first time today to get a new exhaust system. It drives good except I get extreme clutch chatter in first gear (or reverse) from a stop. No signs of slipping, just extreme chattering. It will definitely rattle your dentures! No matter how you take off, you get the hard chatter. It seems ok when going into second or third. It might be the disc has oil on it since it has a slight rear main leak although the pressure plate and flywheel look clean through the access cover. Is there any way to burn the oil off or am I into doing a complete clutch job? Maybe press the clutch pedal and pour a cleaning solution through. Acetone comes to mind.

Thanks, Phil Swanson

meric42 · 03-19-2019, 05:37 PM

First and foremost make sure that your engine and transmission rubber mounts are in excellent condition and are tight. If these are the least bit soft or loose then nothing you do will stop the clutch chatter you are having. If the mounts are okay then you might need to look at an after-market anti chatter rod option. Here is a picture of one such option. This is fitted between the chassis and the Transmission housing and is one option to help eliminate clutch chatter. It is quite possible that there is nothing actually wrong with the actual clutch at all, I know a guy that spent a lot of time and money chasing this issue but didn't fix the mounts, as a result he never resolved the problem before selling the car to me. Once the mounts were replace the car was totally different to drive. Hope this helps

cmbrucew · 03-19-2019, 05:45 PM

Adjust free play on clutch pedal to 1" to 1 1/4".

Bruce

philipswanson · 03-19-2019, 06:42 PM

Thanks guys, those are great solutions to chase. Will do both right away.

Thanks, Phil Swanson

JSeery · 03-19-2019, 09:06 PM

Something on the flywheel, pressure plate or clutch plate surfaces (such as oil) can be a cause.

Talkwrench · 03-19-2019, 11:17 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Sick Uni ..?

Mac VP · 03-20-2019, 06:29 AM

Here’s a checklist for this issue. Sorry for the odd gaps in some of the words.... I still have to fix that.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...oubleshoot.htm

tubman · 03-20-2019, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

Sick Uni ..?

"Faulty universal joint"?

19Fordy · 03-20-2019, 09:58 AM

Mac VP: Thanks for posting that checklist. It sure is a helpful tool. Covers all the bases.

Admiral · 03-20-2019, 10:18 AM

Here's an odd suggestion that could help: make sure the carburetor idle screws are set correctly. This sounds crazy but here's what I've noticed, at least in my car.

When these screws aren't properly set (something I do with a vacuum gauge, by the way) the clutch can chatter quite a bit in low and reverse gears. I assume when the mixture isn't properly balanced between each of the cylinder banks it leads to this annoying problem. When I reset the screws the chattering goes away.

I run a Holley 94 in my car and the threads in the carburetor base are either a bit worn out or eroded from rusting. This causes the screws to have a slightly loose fit. I've since corrected this issue by adding a small dab of blue Locktite on each screw so they no longer work loose in service. With the idle mixture set properly there's basically zero chatter.

Anyway, it might be a longshot in your case but I hope this helps.

philipswanson · 03-20-2019, 11:42 AM

Thanks again to everybody. That checklist is great. Hope this helps anyone with a similar issue.

19Fordy · 03-20-2019, 02:58 PM

Admiral: That is amazing. Thanks.

Talkwrench · 03-20-2019, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

"Faulty universal joint"?

Yes, That was a bit Aussie, should of put 'mate' after it ..

alanwoodieman · 03-20-2019, 08:12 PM

had similar trouble in a 36 that turned out to be a dry u-joint and cover. also have had same experience with the new clutch disc-Kevlar or whatever is used seems to be grabby, I used the free play suggestion in my 40 wagon and it helped, also helps to get the foot off the clutch pedal quicker

cmbrucew · 03-21-2019, 11:16 AM

Years ago company had a service truck that was grabby. Clutch and disc were changed two or three times with no improvement. MMO and red arrow did not fix it. Removed flywheel and it was hard as kelseys nuts. Junkyard flywheel made that truck a sweet heart to drive.

Bruce

philipswanson · 03-21-2019, 11:28 AM

Problem is there are so many possible causes of chattering, one doesn't know where to begin. I guess easy things first prevails but if it turns out to be the hardest thing fixes it, you've wasted allot of work. It would be nice if we could trouble shoot better based on performance tests instead of a list of shooting in the dark. Maybe put it on a dyno and observe everything in motion???

philipswanson · 03-21-2019, 11:52 AM

I spoke with a guy here in San Diego that runs a dyno shop with a pit and he says if it is being caused by something shaking like tranny mounts, etc. he can find it quickly under load. But I also suspect the clutch itself because I had to break it loose from the flywheel when I first ran it. The clutch and pressure plate is a fairly new rebuilt one. I want to better diagnose the problem before working off a list about 20 plus things that could cause it. Throwing a bunch of work and parts at it is not the way to go and still may not fix it.

Bill · 03-22-2019, 10:23 AM

MacVP mentions remedy #7 anti chatter rods. U haven't specifically mentioned they R in place on your wagon. They were factory installed in 1940 and easily omitted. Are they in place? A simple check. B.

philipswanson · 03-22-2019, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

MacVP mentions remedy #7 anti chatter rods. U haven't specifically mentioned they R in place on your wagon. They were factory installed in 1940 and easily omitted. Are they in place? A simple check. B.

I have the two rods from the engine ears running rearward to the frame. On the passenger side at the frame mounting, the bolt took 6 full turns to get it tight! On the drivers side, the same bolt took 2 full turns. On the front motor mounts I found, from underneath, no metal washers in place and about 1/4" of play in the rubber bushings as I moved them up and down, and on both sides! Waiting on all new mounts (4) then I will do a test drive. Even with all this loose, I still could have other issues.

drolston · 03-22-2019, 11:30 AM

Loose motor mounts will do it for sure. I got a little lazy when I changed water pumps recently and left motor mounts just snug instead of down tight, because I did not want to crawl under to put vice grips on the bottom of the motor mount bolts. I picked up a little clutch chatter in that condition, which went away completely when I properly tightened the motor mount bolts.

03-19-2019, 05:03 PM	#1
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse I drove my '40 wagon for the first time today to get a new exhaust system. It drives good except I get extreme clutch chatter in first gear (or reverse) from a stop. No signs of slipping, just extreme chattering. It will definitely rattle your dentures! No matter how you take off, you get the hard chatter. It seems ok when going into second or third. It might be the disc has oil on it since it has a slight rear main leak although the pressure plate and flywheel look clean through the access cover. Is there any way to burn the oil off or am I into doing a complete clutch job? Maybe press the clutch pedal and pour a cleaning solution through. Acetone comes to mind. Thanks, Phil Swanson

03-19-2019, 05:45 PM	#3
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Adjust free play on clutch pedal to 1" to 1 1/4". Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

03-19-2019, 06:42 PM	#4
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Thanks guys, those are great solutions to chase. Will do both right away. Thanks, Phil Swanson

03-19-2019, 09:06 PM	#5
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Something on the flywheel, pressure plate or clutch plate surfaces (such as oil) can be a cause.

03-19-2019, 11:17 PM	#6
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Sick Uni ..? __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

03-20-2019, 06:29 AM	#7
Mac VP Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,361	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Here’s a checklist for this issue. Sorry for the odd gaps in some of the words.... I still have to fix that. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...oubleshoot.htm __________________ VANPELT SALES LLC Cincinnati, Ohio Office: 513-724-9486 www.vanpeltsales.com www.classictransmission.com

03-20-2019, 09:58 AM	#9
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,925	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Mac VP: Thanks for posting that checklist. It sure is a helpful tool. Covers all the bases.

03-20-2019, 10:18 AM	#10
Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Oakland County, Michigan Posts: 562	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Here's an odd suggestion that could help: make sure the carburetor idle screws are set correctly. This sounds crazy but here's what I've noticed, at least in my car. When these screws aren't properly set (something I do with a vacuum gauge, by the way) the clutch can chatter quite a bit in low and reverse gears. I assume when the mixture isn't properly balanced between each of the cylinder banks it leads to this annoying problem. When I reset the screws the chattering goes away. I run a Holley 94 in my car and the threads in the carburetor base are either a bit worn out or eroded from rusting. This causes the screws to have a slightly loose fit. I've since corrected this issue by adding a small dab of blue Locktite on each screw so they no longer work loose in service. With the idle mixture set properly there's basically zero chatter. Anyway, it might be a longshot in your case but I hope this helps.

03-20-2019, 11:42 AM	#11
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Thanks again to everybody. That checklist is great. Hope this helps anyone with a similar issue.

03-20-2019, 02:58 PM	#12
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,925	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Admiral: That is amazing. Thanks.

03-20-2019, 08:12 PM	#14
alanwoodieman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: upstate SC Posts: 2,963	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse had similar trouble in a 36 that turned out to be a dry u-joint and cover. also have had same experience with the new clutch disc-Kevlar or whatever is used seems to be grabby, I used the free play suggestion in my 40 wagon and it helped, also helps to get the foot off the clutch pedal quicker

03-21-2019, 11:16 AM	#15
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Years ago company had a service truck that was grabby. Clutch and disc were changed two or three times with no improvement. MMO and red arrow did not fix it. Removed flywheel and it was hard as kelseys nuts. Junkyard flywheel made that truck a sweet heart to drive. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

03-21-2019, 11:28 AM	#16
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Problem is there are so many possible causes of chattering, one doesn't know where to begin. I guess easy things first prevails but if it turns out to be the hardest thing fixes it, you've wasted allot of work. It would be nice if we could trouble shoot better based on performance tests instead of a list of shooting in the dark. Maybe put it on a dyno and observe everything in motion???

03-21-2019, 11:52 AM	#17
philipswanson Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Bonita, CA Posts: 1,374	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse I spoke with a guy here in San Diego that runs a dyno shop with a pit and he says if it is being caused by something shaking like tranny mounts, etc. he can find it quickly under load. But I also suspect the clutch itself because I had to break it loose from the flywheel when I first ran it. The clutch and pressure plate is a fairly new rebuilt one. I want to better diagnose the problem before working off a list about 20 plus things that could cause it. Throwing a bunch of work and parts at it is not the way to go and still may not fix it.

03-22-2019, 10:23 AM	#18
Bill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 469	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse MacVP mentions remedy #7 anti chatter rods. U haven't specifically mentioned they R in place on your wagon. They were factory installed in 1940 and easily omitted. Are they in place? A simple check. B.

03-22-2019, 11:30 AM	#20
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,627	Re: Clutch Chattering Bad In Low/Reverse Loose motor mounts will do it for sure. I got a little lazy when I changed water pumps recently and left motor mounts just snug instead of down tight, because I did not want to crawl under to put vice grips on the bottom of the motor mount bolts. I picked up a little clutch chatter in that condition, which went away completely when I properly tightened the motor mount bolts.