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Old 09-13-2018, 01:11 AM   #1
Christoph
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Default Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Engine of my 29 is in the car for about 50`000 mls and
as far as i remember the clutch is about same age.

Last weekend i had a clutch failure while driving and managed to
drive home 30mls without use of clutch (without any Stop)

Investigation clarified, that one of the springs left its place
as discribed in Tom Endys superbe article (attached)

I can see that one spring is not in place.
I can NOT see the spring.

Anybody managed to unscrew the pressure-plate and get out the
spring without dismounting engine (nor gearbox) ?

Will take out engine in wintertime anyway but hope to "survive"
the season (next two weekends) without to much work (as i do not
have the time)

Thank you for your ideas
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Clutch Failure.pdf (162.2 KB, 95 views)

Last edited by Christoph; 09-13-2018 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:12 AM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

When the spring dislodges, it generally causes the clutch disc plate to either bend (most common) or come 'unriveted'. Either way, the disc needs to be replaced immediately as it can dislodge another spring, --or it could catch that spring on a spinning flywheel and eject it out of the cast iron clutch or flywheel housing like a projectile.


On a side-note, generally what causes a clutch disc to come apart is loads caused by a plate not being centered. This can be due to a worn pilot bearing or a worn main (input) shaft. You might want to check that when you have it apart.
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Thank you Brent Good suggestions and i will check/clarify once engine and gearbox are out. Last hours i tried to find the dislodged spring without disassambling the engine I unscrewed the 12 bolts of the pressureplate to push it backwards and have a look in front of the pressureplate. Sadly there is no way to push the pressureplate more than 5 mm back. Not enough space to put in a endoscope-camera (is it that all endoscope-cameras are as junk as mine is???). Not enough space to take out the spring (if i would have found it). However - my "A"-season is over here and i will take out the engine next (asap) . Thank you again Brent
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:48 AM   #4
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

I would not remove the engine. I would remove the rear axle and the transmission. This can be accomplished with a decent sized set of jack stands. Just uncouple the torque tube from the back of the transmission and remove the U-Bolts from the crossmember that holds the rear spring in. With brake rods removed and wheels off, the rear end can be removed on a floor jack. Then unbolt the transmission and lower it from the top down.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:56 PM   #5
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

I've seen some that coat the disc springs with silicone rubber, to keep them in place.
Bill Sticky
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON View Post
I've seen some that coat the disc springs with silicone rubber, to keep them in place.
Bill Sticky
I helped out a friend recently by giving him a clutch plate when he needed one. It was one with the springs properly retained but he replaced it with one where they are not. I've been considering what to do. Do I weld a retainer on to mimic the proper plate? Not too sure about that but would appreciate informed comment.
I hadn't thought of silicone but it sounds like it could work.
Bill, do you know if it was successful?
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Old 09-13-2018, 10:22 PM   #7
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

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Originally Posted by synchro909 View Post
i helped out a friend recently by giving him a clutch plate when he needed one. It was one with the springs properly retained but he replaced it with one where they are not. I've been considering what to do. Do i weld a retainer on to mimic the proper plate? Not too sure about that but would appreciate informed comment.
I hadn't thought of silicone but it sounds like it could work.
Bill, do you know if it was successful?
yes!
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Old 09-14-2018, 12:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
I would not remove the engine. I would remove the rear axle and the transmission. This can be accomplished with a decent sized set of jack stands. Just uncouple the torque tube from the back of the transmission and remove the U-Bolts from the crossmember that holds the rear spring in. With brake rods removed and wheels off, the rear end can be removed on a floor jack. Then unbolt the transmission and lower it from the top down.

Yes, as Brent says remove the rear axle and then trans. I have made pilots for installing the trans and bell housing. It keeps the torque and stress off the clutch disc and allows for an easy entry to the pilot bearing.
use some about 3 inches in length and cut the heads off and taper the end so it makes for the bell housing to go on the ends easier. place one at about 9 or clock and the other about 3 and it will make install easier.
Removal of the rear and trans is much quicker and less evasive to the car, plus you have to separate at the engine anyway.

Larry Shepard
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:36 AM   #9
Christoph
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Thank you for your kind help.

In common i would take out the rear too, to work at the clutch....
What i didnt tell , is, that i decided to switch engines too.
Actual engine (50.000mls ) is still running strong, but has some
minor probs i will try to figure out about ( Im old enough and there is no need
to wait for the "BIG BANG" which turns a nice old engine in some useless junk)
God point is that i got a (new) engine sitting in the garage already

Thank you again
Chris

Last edited by Christoph; 09-14-2018 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christoph View Post
Engine of my 29 is in the car for about 50`000 mls and
as far as i remember the clutch is about same age.

Last weekend i had a clutch failure while driving and managed to
drive home 30mls without use of clutch (without any Stop)

Investigation clarified, that one of the springs left its place
as discribed in Tom Endys superbe article (attached)

I can see that one spring is not in place.
I can NOT see the spring.

Anybody managed to unscrew the pressure-plate and get out the
spring without dismounting engine (nor gearbox) ?

Will take out engine in wintertime anyway but hope to "survive"
the season (next two weekends) without to much work (as i do not
have the time)

Thank you for your ideas

Good info in Toms article as usual...

I would add that in the 60s I had several of the clutch plates with no springs rebuilt thinking to avoid springs coming loose.

After some time I heard a clunking noise when shifting forward to reverse.

Problem was that rebuilder did not replace the 6 rivets with over sized ones that hold the center hub to disk.

The rivets had worn the holes in plate to an oblong shape.

The rivets were tight but plate would move inside the oblong holes!

I recommend the new disks with spring retainers.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sadly failure of clutch with spring center

Quote:
Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON View Post
yes!
THanks, Bill. It looks like I will be dragging the silicone gun out soon!! Sounds like a good solution.
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