Brake Adjustment 1936 Mechanical

[billybronco1]

Okay today I wanted to do a quick brake adjustment on my 36 with mechanical brakes, as I noticed my right front wheel does not turn by hand "super tight" the left has too much drag and the rears spin freely. I attempted to move the adjusters with a small wrench, no movement at all. I always use to have trouble adjusting my model A can't remember to turn clockwise or counter clockwise to back off? And do I need a long persuader bar or wrench to move these adjusters?

I plan to pull all the hubs at a later date but will have to get the fronts backed off before they will ever come off. Supposedly the car has recent brake pads but it still does not stop.

[VeryTangled]

The adjuster turns 'in' to tighten and 'out' to loosen.

I would not use any wrench longer than 12 inches.

Edit to add: Quick brake adjustments on my cars became possible only after doing a lot of inspection/replacement/adjustment with all the other parts that aren't at the wheel.

This diagram helps me visualize the system. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...akes_35-36.jpg

[billybronco1]

Very nice diagram I will save that to my library, Vanpelt seems to have a lot of good documentation. I made special tool #1 and was able to adjust the right front, just needed to back off one click (counter clockwise). As for the rears the adjuster does not do anything on the right and frozen on the left but they are free wheeling at least so hopefully the hubs will come off without too much trouble

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

As for the rears... hopefully the hubs will come off without too much trouble

A rear hub/drum removing tool is typically used. I'm pretty sure VanPelt rents them if you can't come across one (just checked, $25 for two weeks, pg. 36 of the .PDF catalog). Great volumes on the subject in the old posts. When they come off easy is the time I become scared!

[Willit Stop]

This might be a good time to install brake floaters if you don't already have them.

[billybronco1]

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Once I open these up I'm sure I will have plenty of questions, I will have to research brake floaters, not sure what they are.

[billybronco1]

I did do some research on the brake floaters, got mixed reviews but sounds like worth trying for the money. I did find two different types available not sure which one to buy.
Both at Macs one seems more basic than the other, with less parts.

[Will D]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I did do some research on the brake floaters, got mixed reviews but sounds like worth trying for the money. I did find two different types available not sure which one to buy.
Both at Macs one seems more basic than the other, with less parts.

Flathead Ted on this site makes and sells them.

[G.M.]

Adjust the mechanical brakes EXACTLY like described in the Ford
service bulletin. You will have to take a wrench and stop a number
of times and adjust them so they all lock up the same. They will slide
all 4 wheels at 40 MPH. They are safer than Hydraulic brakes because
a line can't break. Have good grease seals and sand the glaze off of
the linings. G.M.

[v8nut]

I use an infrared thermometer to adjust my 35 Phaeton brakes. I drive it a while and then measure the temperature of the drums. If one it too hot I loosen it. If one is too cool I tighten it. When they are all about the same I think they are adjusted about right. Jim in San Jose.

[billybronco1]

So this week I plan to pull all the drums on my 1936 and see what's going on with my brakes as they don't work so well and I have a rubbing noise in the left front every once in a while. I'm reading the instructions on how to adjust the brakes over and over and not sure I understand the sequence. Is it true you adjust the emergency brake rod clearance first, each wheel rod length second, then the final adjustments on the backside of the brake plate? I want to fix everything to the factory spec before I invest in brake floaters if needed.

[VeryTangled]

Pulling and inspecting pins for gouges and wear, and rods for straightness (most are bent and they don't transmit force properly) and worn eyelets will need doing, and might be better done first?

If the cross shaft is original it's probably got slop in it too.

Did you source a drum puller?

[billybronco1]

Yes I got a drum puller just like the one I used on my model A on eBay.

[billybronco1]

When you talk about pins and eyelets this probably will all make sense once I dig into this, but are you basically talking about all the rod end connections?

[VeryTangled]

Each brake rod connects to each wheel with a pin/cotter pin combination. The pins wear and are no longer round. This end of the rod has a turnbuckle like adjuster with a stop nut, and wear in the turnbuckle doesn't introduce slop that can't be adjusted out.

Unfortunately the end of the brake rod that goes to the cross shaft, they have an eyelet that becomes egged out and they are more challenging to make round again.

Many brake rods have become un-straight.

There is another pin in connection between the pedal and the cross shaft.

Third Gen Automotive is my go-to for parts in this instance.

[billybronco1]

Okay easy enough to buy all new clevis rod ends and pins if needed. So It sounds like the first order of business is start at the cross shaft look for worn loose parts and then go to to the other end of the rods. After that deal with the shoes and related components.

[Jembow]

Our UK annual safety check requires a rolling-road brake test. First time I thought I'd done the adjustment procedure correctly, but the tester said 'You have no front brakes at all!'. If you can find a shop with a brake tester, I'd recommend that after you've gone through the overhaul.

[billybronco1]

Okay, pulled all the brakes apart today. My findings are left front brake rod pretty bent up, straightened that. Need a few clevis pins so I will replace all of them. Pulled all the rods and cleaned up the rod end adjustments. So here is my question.

When I push the brake shoes out by moving the rod arm, just like if you were stepping on the brake the front shoes only the bottom front shoe moves out on the bottom, nothing else moves. On the rear both shoes move out on the bottom, does this all sound right?

[VeryTangled]

Check this area for free movement or binding. The ball cap can wear.

Possibly the issue is with the rollers at the bottom of the shoes that the wedge engages? Are they free, circular, and rolling?

[billybronco1]

So should I assume that both front brake shoes should expand on the bottom when I push the brake pedal and I should be able to see this with the drum off, just like the rears?

[nelsb01]

Don't forget about spring 48-2472. (over 6 1/2 inches long) If you have removed the clevis for the rear rods at the cross shaft, you will notice that there is a 1/8" space between the rod ends once they are attached to the pin. That is where this spring connects.
Check your 1935-1936 Ford Book -- page 89 top left column. It is a fun spring to install and helps return the cross shaft to the proper position for making adjustments.
You have probably read that the cross shaft connectors and the brake lever at the drum backing plate need to be vertical when connected to offer optimum braking.

(you may need a come-along to attach the spring-- and that could be why you may not have noticed it when removing the rear rods -- as it wasn't there)

[VeryTangled]

nelsb01, you're funny! A come-along was handy for me!

Originally Posted by nelsb01

It is a fun spring to install and helps return the cross shaft to the proper position for making adjustments.

[FlatheadTed]

One shoe will move only or respond to the weaker spring ,on contacting the drum the other one will move
[[COLOR="black"]]Quote[[/COLOR]
Originally Posted by billybronco1 View Post
So should I assume that both front brake shoes should expand on the bottom when I push the brake pedal and I should be able to see this with the drum off, just like the rears?

[billybronco1]

Thanks Ted, I have not opted out of using floaters, I just want to understand and get everything right without them the best I can before installing. Now that I have everything apart how does one proceed to get the rod lengths correct and the pads adjusted. Which one do you do first?

[FlatheadTed]

You can adjust the rod threads by varying the pedal to cross shaft length that's in the battery box ,so you are aiming to have plenty of thread left ,the car I pictured in last thred had run out of rod thred so when i welded up the parts as described I was able to let out the adjustment so I had restored clevis thread , so by adjusting the front shoes to drum clearance first will dictate were the clevas ends up its were the rod thread comes out to meet it 1/32 to place the pin in ,rods should have 50% of thred left ,Rod angles change as you get drum & lining ware so you need to restore that .

[FlatheadTed]

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Clevases or the cross shaft should be about vertical when the brakes are applied so the starting point is before verticial ,Front clevas I prefer them to be about 30% forward as a starting point ,you can shim or weld up the king pin actuator rod a mig is best you can form a ball just like whats there ,

[JM 35 Sedan]

Yes, both brake shoes should move out at the bottom on front and rear, at all four wheels. You may need to remove the shoes, and all other components that make the shoes move, to determine if wear is excessive. Also, you need to make sure the sleeve bearings that support the shaft that goes through the backing plates, and actuates the wedges, are not excessively worn.
In other words....any part in the entire mechanical breaking system that turns, slides, pivots or moves in such a way that wear can occure, must be checked and replaced/repaired as necessary, before the mechanical braking system can be properly adjusted, and expected to work as originally designed.

[billybronco1]

Today after cleaning up all the rods and and back plate adjusters I proceeded to take the fronts off. One side pushed out the front pad, the other the rear pad. The wedges and rollers look okay to me but maybe it makes sense to replace them while everything is apart, what do you think? Maybe the springs too. I think I read someplace not to use grease on these moving parts, they were pretty caked up with grease, some dried out. That could be part of the problem.

[FlatheadTed]

What JM 35 is talking about .Here is some backing plates that were badly worn ,had to boar out and rebush with a thick wall bushing,the owner wanted a new casting as it had been welded up were the shaft had worn into it ,Non available that I know of , we cut the weld bit of and made a stepped bush ,

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Today after cleaning up all the rods and and back plate adjusters I proceeded to take the fronts off. One side pushed out the front pad, the other the rear pad. The wedges and rollers look okay to me but maybe it makes sense to replace them while everything is apart, what do you think? Maybe the springs too. I think I read someplace not to use grease on these moving parts, they were pretty caked up with grease, some dried out. That could be part of the problem.

As I mentioned in my previous post....IMO, you must repair/replace all moving components in the entire mechanical braking system that exhibit excessive wear. Also, IMO all of these moving components in the braking system should be properly lubricated.

[billybronco1]

I really have not found any worn parts, everything looks good. I pulled the fronts all apart, cleaned everything and put it back together, no grease as IMO it just collects dirt and brake dust. Both shoes in the front now expand when pushing on the brake pedal.

[FlatheadTed]

Good to hear that you have no ware ,As said one shoe can move first more so on a 37/38 they have two springs this is indicator of a week spring on one side ,in your case it sounded like Dirt/gunge ,the wedge is a equalizer and compensates for shoe ware by moving side ways ,not all components that have ware are available of the shelves so some creative thinking has to come into play when doing a brake job .The 35 I worked on had no ware to speak of and no brakes ,The previous guy who worked on it was against floaters ,OH yes some one put the lower anchor washer P# 2054 on the out side , we rectified that to ,it now has brakes .Ted

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Good to hear that you have no ware ,As said one shoe can move first more so on a 37/38 they have two springs this is indicator of a week spring on one side ,in your case it sounded like Dirt/gunge ,the wedge is a equalizer and compensates for shoe ware by moving side ways ,not all components that have ware are available of the shelves so some creative thinking has to come into play when doing a brake job .The 35 I worked on had no ware to speak of and no brakes ,The previous guy who worked on it was against floaters ,OH yes some one put the lower anchor washer P# 2054 on the out side , we rectified that to ,it now has brakes .Ted

I did not see the 2054 washer you mentioned. Is that on the outside of the backing plate?

[FlatheadTed]

Good Afternoon Billy, On page one Very tangled put up the parts list it should be on the inside ,next to the wedge ,Ted

[billybronco1]

I didn't take off the pn 2053 wedge post so I'm going to assume it was on that up against the backing plate. Everything is all back together just waiting for some clevis pins for the brake rods to finish the job. Looking forward to a test drive. I'm going to assume its a good idea to re-adjust the brakes after the first drive and brakes get centered.

[FlatheadTed]

Yes ,Are you running fresh shoe linings

[billybronco1]

No, the fronts look like new probably barely touched the drums and the rears were replaced not long ago. They look really good.

[KiWinUS]

Billy be sure the shoe arc matches the drum. If the drums have been turned but shoes not arced to match you will have little contact area(look like new) and a sucky pedal. Cheers
Tony

[billybronco1]

Tony, I hear you I should have checked the arc before I put them all back together. But they way these original brake set ups are, I think your lucky if half the shoe touches the drum anyway on a good day. If I put brake floaters in I'm sure this would be crucial. Once I get the new clevis pins I will post how it stops on my test run. Most the little rollers were all gunked up with harden grease, they are all clean now and roll smoothly, and all appeared round too by measuring.

[billybronco1]

Got it all back together today and took it for a ride. Well it does not stop as good as my Jeep GC and I'm not going to leave any rubber on the road but it does stop better. When I got back I was able to get another click or two on each brake adjuster. So after a couple days of cleaning and adjusting at least I have a complete understanding how these brakes work even if not perfect. One problem I have is the pedals are so small and close together my size 14's sometimes get the brake and the gas at the same time. Thanks for all the tips.

[billybronco1]

So a little more on the brake situation. I feel I can't get the adjustment on the wedge right until I get the proper adjusting tool. An open end wrench will only tighten them so much, then slips off and I can't get the last click to go.

Right now it pulls to the left a little when I hit them quickly, does that mean I need to tighten up the right?

Also as someone suggested check the temperature on the drums. The fronts are running cooler than the rears. 95 on front 125 on rear. Are the fronts suppose to do most the stopping or should everything be equal? I would think the fronts would be a higher temp if they are doing most the stopping.

I hope I connected the rods right. I first tightened up all the wedges so I had about the same drag on each wheel. Then I hooked up the rods by pushing the lever back about 1/32" (which is nothing) in the release direction, not to apply anymore drag on the drum.

[DavidG]

Yes, just like the rear brakes, both shoes will move outward at the bottom when the brake pedal is depressed. That's the function of the wedge 68-2050 shown in #19, namely to force the rollers at the bottom of the brake shoes outward taking the brake shoes with them.


A 7/16" eight point socket is a good substitute for one of the original special purpose adjusting wrenches.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. Here's pics I found of something similar to what I think was commonly used in the day like DavidG mentions.

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Right now it pulls to the left a little when I hit them quickly, does that mean I need to tighten up the right?

Reduce braking power on the side that it pulls towards.

[billybronco1]

I like the idea of the 7/16 eight point but the wrench attached here seems like it would do the job well.

[DavidG]

Beware of a wrench such as in your illustration that only has four points. There are lots of things in the way that will limit your ability to make complete 90 degree rotations with such a wrench, especially in the front of the car. An eight point socket and the eight point wrenches shown in Jeff's photos only require a 45 degree rotation before you can again engage the brake adjusting stud.

[billybronco1]

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Good point I will try the socket in the spring car is put away for the winter.

But, can someone comment on my other questions on the left pull and how I adjusted the brakes? Thanks.

[DavidG]

Jeff did; see the sentence above the photos in #43.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone, Hopefully getting these into this thread will help.

[big job]

My 5 cents make sure there is NO bows or bent rods Just one little bend will act like
air in a hydraulic system. I remember going to work at the 40mph limit a kid with a
bike right out in front I slammed the binders and smoked all four ok. then last summer
wife comes to a red light "Pong" there goes a brake hose good thing I trained her its called
the emergency brake: So I guess a 2017 is not that stupid & "Modern" as all think. Ain't it funny things goes south about when the last payment is made? Mechanical brakes are positive air brakes are positive, hydraulics - cross ya fingers unless you live in a perfect world. and we have a dumpster loaded with worthless rotors calipers rotted brake lines all from the century and rarely a brake drum...

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by VeryTangled

Hi Everyone, Hopefully getting these into this thread will help.

Jeff, I like these documents. Are they all in one book or are the several books. Can you send a pic of the cover so I can buy one? I see there are several different variations of service bulletin books, I want to make sure I get the right ones for my 36 fordor

[nelsb01]

You are looking for Ford V-8 Service Bulletins 1932-1937 (tan cover hardbound) from Post Motor Books dated 1968. (all Ford issued service bulletins)

You can also get the ABC's of Brake Adjustment (DVD of original Ford Training Film) from the Early Ford V-8 Foundation.

[DavidG]

There's a re-print of all of the 1932-37 U.S. Service Bulletins including those above from many of the hobby suppliers. For example, Bob Drake offers it (in stock) for $22. Used copies show up frequently on Amazon and ebay.

[billybronco1]

Hard cover looks like this?

[DavidG]

Yep, but I believe that Bob's $22 version is soft bound.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Jeff, I like these documents. Are they all in one book or are the several books. Can you send a pic of the cover so I can buy one? I see there are several different variations of service bulletin books, I want to make sure I get the right ones for my 36 fordor

Hi Everyone! billybronco, I tried.

See post 11 in this thread from 11/24.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=11

They show up in their original monthly pamphlet format but they get snapped up by literature collectors and I'm fine using the reprinted ones.

[billybronco1]

Okay thanks, I found and ordered one on eBay (used) hardcover shipped $15

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

So a little more on the brake situation. I feel I can't get the adjustment on the wedge right until I get the proper adjusting tool. An open end wrench will only tighten them so much, then slips off and I can't get the last click to go.

Try using a 12" or larger crescent wrench that you can tighten against those adjusters before trying to turn them. An open end or box end wrench that does not fit those adjusters properly will definitely slip

Right now it pulls to the left a little when I hit them quickly, does that mean I need to tighten up the right?

I would suggest setting your front adjuster's so they engage first....prior to the rear engaging. It's possible that the rear brakes are causing your car to pull in either direction. This is exactly what was happening on my '35 fordor with mechanical brakes the last time I had to adjust them. I could not stop the pulling to one side when making quick stops by just adjusting just the front. By adjust the rear brakes properly, I was able to completely stop it from pulling to either side.

Also as someone suggested check the temperature on the drums. The fronts are running cooler than the rears. 95 on front 125 on rear. Are the fronts suppose to do most the stopping or should everything be equal? I would think the fronts would be a higher temp if they are doing most the stopping.

If you are trying to set braking by the temperature of the drums, then it's my opinion the front drums will be hotter than the rear drums.

I hope I connected the rods right. I first tightened up all the wedges so I had about the same drag on each wheel. Then I hooked up the rods by pushing the lever back about 1/32" (which is nothing) in the release direction, not to apply anymore drag on the drum.

I think that's okay initially when you reassemble all the braking components, but for subsequent fine tuning the braking adjusters on the backing plates, I would not disconnect the rods unless adjustment of the rod length becomes necessary,. JMO

[billybronco1]

John, thanks for those tips. Yes, I agree the front drums should be warmer than the rears if they are grabbing first. So with that said, I assume I should adjust them in such a way that the rears have less drag, meaning the wedge is backed off some and the front brakes more drag or tighter so they engage first. Does that sound right? If so how much drag is too much?

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

John, thanks for those tips. Yes, I agree the front drums should be warmer than the rears if they are grabbing first. So with that said, I assume I should adjust them in such a way that the rears have less drag, meaning the wedge is backed off some and the front brakes more drag or tighter so they engage first. Does that sound right? If so how much drag is too much?

If I were you, for now, I would leave the rears as they are, and just set the drag a little more on both fronts. I usually set the drag at each wheel by giving the tire a hard spin clockwise so that tire is only able to complete about one half revolution before coming to a complete stop.

It's been my experience when trying to set the drag, the brake shoe linings will wear pretty quickly, requiring repeated adjustment after a short drive until the linings wear enough to fit the brake drum curvature more completely.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by big job

My 5 cents, make sure there is NO bows or bent rods. Just one little bend will act like air in a hydraulic system.

Thank you big job, this may be the best hint presented in the whole thread.

And I absolutely must tip the hat to my sensei (since my Dad passed... https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...05&postcount=1), JM 35 Sedan.

I tried to remember their lessons but I'm not the best student.

If your brake rods are bent, just the slightest bit, them things won't work with any kind of sensible behavior.

[Brian]

Further to all the above, I always use a gravelled driveway or similar to do the final adjustment[s]. Easy to see skid marks in the gravel, back off the brake[s] that gives the longest skidmark[s], until you've got a nice balance.

[Duncan]

Brilliant.

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by v8nut

I use an infrared thermometer to adjust my 35 Phaeton brakes. I drive it a while and then measure the temperature of the drums. If one it too hot I loosen it. If one is too cool I tighten it. When they are all about the same I think they are adjusted about right. Jim in San Jose.

Brilliant.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Yes, just like the rear brakes, both shoes will move outward at the bottom when the brake pedal is depressed. That's the function of the wedge 68-2050 shown in #19, namely to force the rollers at the bottom of the brake shoes outward taking the brake shoes with them.


A 7/16" eight point socket is a good substitute for one of the original special purpose adjusting wrenches.

I still could not get one more click on the adjustment with a 7/16 eight point socket, it just slipped. Car stops fairly well but hoped for one more click on each wheel. I still have very little drag on each wheel.

[jayvee34]

I am re-doing my brakes and all this info is being very useful to me. Thanks to all of the
above comments. (great forum).