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Old 09-08-2019, 06:03 AM   #1
patrickt
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Default Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Hello All !
Just wondering if anyone had any information on the so called "Transitional Model A" ? Not sure if I read (like 20 years ago) that there were very early Model A`s that had a T body, or at least identical body carryover from the T`s touring cars???

I asked as we seem to have what we have always assumed to be a 1928/29 Model A Phaeton whose body and dash might have been modified for farm use (at least thats what we thought).
Now, its been stuck in our home`s garage for like 20 years maybe, so the engine is at the engine rebuilder`s shop. Now the engine is most definitely an A, as well as the radiator and radiator shell as well.

So finally i decided to start looking at pics of the 1927 Touring T`s on the net, and thats what the body and the dash seem to look like. Oh, and it doesnt help that it has 16 inch wire wheels on it, that someone described might be from a 1934 Ford. I apologize that i`m unable to post pics yet, i still need to learn how to post pics on any forum i`ve been on..

Maybe someone has info and can post pics, or a link or site on the net that can help me ? I have not been able to find anything on this so called transitional A, if indeed it is one ??? Thanks All ! Patrick
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:51 AM   #2
mhsprecher
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

I would not call it a "Transitional Model A." To the untrained eye, it looks just like any other 28 or 29 Model A. The biggest giveaway is that the emergency brake is on the left hand side of the steering wheel rather than in the middle. There are hundreds of other differences, but if you want a quick way to figure out if yours is an early A, that, in my opinion, is the quickest way. I could not quickly find a list of the early features, but there is a Facebook page for Early 28 and Fine Point, although that site has a lot of other stuff on it. https://www.facebook.com/groups/E28Modelaford/ The MAFACA site also has some photos of 28s. https://mafca.com/gallery_1928.html

The definitive way to identify the early cars is by the serial number on the engine and the frame. Others who are more knowledgeable than I can provide the cutoff date for most early features, which you can compare to your engine and frame number. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm As yours is cut down, the engine and frame may not match. Here is another link that might be useful. https://www.mafca.com/whatyear.html

Many others on this site are expert at this. I am not, but I thought I would at least give you a place to start. Photos will help immensely.
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

If you can figure out how to post photos on this site, answers will follow. We need photos.
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Old 09-08-2019, 09:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

MHSPRECHER -
Thanks so much for the links ! I have seen a number of pics of the 28/30 and 30/31. What is puzzling me is that the body and dash truly appears to be a 27 touring T, hence my having thought it was a 28 or 29 Phaeton A.

I might not have remembered properly what I read about the early A's from 20 years ago, thinking that the very first A's that came out very late in 1927 (but sold as 1928's) had a T body with an A engine.

You and MIKE PETERS are right of course, that I should try to post pics. I will try to when I get back to you guys. Thanks again for the response. Oh, this is my first post on Ford Barn, just for your information.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:06 AM   #5
dean from bozeman
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Hi Patrick,

I think that you will find that the Model A was pretty much a complete redesign when compared to a Model T. Yes, some parts were carried over but not many. Early photos of the "New Ford" cars show a distinct Model A body.

Through the years there have been many "hybrids" made using parts from various vehicles (makes, models, years). Some look rather nice. Some not so nice.

It would be really good to see photos of the vehicle that you are talking about.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:51 AM   #6
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

I suspect your car was all Model A that someone has replaced the body with a T body, some evidence is the '35 wire wheels. 1935 was the only year 16" wires were used by Ford.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

The first 200 model A's produced were used as demonstrators and to 'tune' the line..one unique thing about the first 200 were open end bumpers.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:06 AM   #8
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

I've mentioned it before in a post on this forum that a friend of mine has a truck that he says is a model T with several model A parts that are original, or model A with T parts. I can't remember what all he said as far as parts. I just saw it the other day for the first time but was so overwhelmed with all he has that I didn't look at it thoroughly. He has things from his grandfathers ford dealer errr agency when it sold model T's and has the gas pump and other things, with original photos. I'll get more specific info on the truck. He is pretty smart on t's and a's but I have heard him say a couple of things that doesn't correlate with what some of you have said.

Ive have WW2 vets say they brought a rifle home from the war that hadn't even been made during the war, were made will after. So it's always smart to double check information, triple check??
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by History View Post
I've mentioned it before in a post on this forum that a friend of mine has a truck that he says is a model T with several model A parts that are original, or model A with T parts. I can't remember what all he said as far as parts. I just saw it the other day for the first time but was so overwhelmed with all he has that I didn't look at it thoroughly. He has things from his grandfathers ford dealer errr agency when it sold model T's and has the gas pump and other things, with original photos. I'll get more specific info on the truck. He is pretty smart on t's and a's but I have heard him say a couple of things that doesn't correlate with what some of you have said.

Ive have WW2 vets say they brought a rifle home from the war that hadn't even been made during the war, were made will after. So it's always smart to double check information, triple check??

A few pics of teh truck would be nice. Make it easier to answer questions.
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Old 09-08-2019, 10:23 PM   #10
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

There are 17 pages in the Restoration Guidelines that speak to these early cars.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

MHSPRECHER and DEAN FROM BOZEMAN - Thanks for the links ! Quite a few identifying features on our car dont match up at all. The most obvious being what i believe is a 1927 Model T split windshield, then a chromed `26 or `27 T instrument panel (ignition key and ammeter), T fenders too. NOTE: Steering Wheel on RIGHT side with "Pistol grip" handbrake to left of the pedals.

JIM BRIERLEY - Thats what it looks like so far. You mentioned the 1935 16" rims (thats on ours), is it because the 16" wheels fit on the Model A hubs ?

RAILCARMOVER - Thanks ! i will check my bumpers

HISTORY - thats interesting, we might have a hybrid home special as well ? I will post pics on the T forum as well, if and when i learn how to.

MIKE V. FLORIDA - Thank you ! I will check it out.

EVERYONE - I apologize for not having posted pics, i still need to learn how to do that. Thanks ! Patrick

Last edited by patrickt; 09-09-2019 at 09:53 PM. Reason: added a sentence
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Ah ,the Phillipines. Some of the old cars got a very hard life in places like Sth America & even here in NZ. To keep them going a lot of 'mix n match' went on but if there were not many sponsor cars around for parts, then some strange hybrids occurred [ eg. Cuba] Sounds like a late Model T [ with A engine etc?] but pics will clear it up.
There were a lot of Model T nuts & bolts in the first A's, plus incidental things like tool kit & some other very minor bits & pieces, but the Model A was all new. The closed cabs of the delivery pickup used carry over body panels from a '27 T Tudor or Coupe less cowl, but that was about it.
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:50 AM   #13
dean from bozeman
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

patrickt, though it would be nice to see photos, it is a confusing process that I have to relearn every time I want/need to post some. If you have digital photos of your car there are good guys on this site who may offer their services.

There is still much to learn about the early/very early A's. It's always exciting to hear about some early feature(s) that someone has found. Some are legit. Some are hybrids. The point being that unless someone says, 'Hey check this out' we don't have an opportunity to learn.

Hopefully someone will unearth a really early "A", and we will learn tons. Until then we, as the amateurs we are, will need to keep on working a little at a time to learn what we can about this area of the hobby that we love so well.

I look forward to seeing photos of your vehicle in the future. Until then, thanks for sharing your information with us.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

TUDORMNZ - Your "Ah" sounds like you've been here ?? Your observation about the old car hobby over here is pretty accurate I would say. So in addition to virtually no parts to be had over here (for older cars at least), the tropics high humidity and frequent rains give no respite for these wonderful automobiles. Thankfully, the internet and globalization has helped to alleviate lots of problems that my father and his now long deceased father (both passionate about automobiles) had to tackle to keep their pride and joy up and running. I will let you guys know what else I've found if and when I learn to post pics. For now I'm pretty sure it's just a hybrid. Thanks for responding!

DEAN FROM BOZEMAN - I will hopefully learn to post pics on here. As far as learning goes, I am somewhat intrigued with our Ford, be it an A or a T or a hybrid. My father is actually the owner, though I have had the pleasure of having driven it much more than he has (20 years ago).

Your words about this fine piece of history are very encouraging, thank you ! I hope I can post pics sometime...Take it easy now.
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Old 09-11-2019, 06:52 AM   #15
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by History View Post
I've mentioned it before in a post on this forum that a friend of mine has a truck that he says is a model T with several model A parts that are original, or model A with T parts. I can't remember what all he said as far as parts. I just saw it the other day for the first time but was so overwhelmed with all he has that I didn't look at it thoroughly. He has things from his grandfathers ford dealer errr agency when it sold model T's and has the gas pump and other things, with original photos. I'll get more specific info on the truck. He is pretty smart on t's and a's but I have heard him say a couple of things that doesn't correlate with what some of you have said.
MANY parts of the 82A CC pickup body were recycled from the Model T.

You can use 26-27 Tudor, coupe doors in direct replacement of the 28-29 CC doors EXCEPT it is reported that the hinges are different - a difference I have not seen even with direct comparison.

I will say the shape of the cowl and the "tumble home" (nautical technical term) is different between the Model T and the Model A, and some resort to "twisting" the Model T doors to make them fit the Model A truck body - but the normal fit isn't too precise anyway.

Many other trim and door handle parts interchange between the Model T and Model A 82A.

And then there were "variants." Below reported to be a body by Briggs.


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Last edited by Joe K; 09-11-2019 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

JOE K - thanks for the interesting information.

EVERYONE - the mechanic finally opened up our engine and discovered NON-A pistons in it, as well as cylinder liners i assume were put in to accommodate these pistons.

I did drive the A for a number of years with the said pistons installed, and thought the engine worked uhmm, ok i guess, for a car of this vintage. I dont have a point of comparison as there were probably only a hand ful of A`s in this country since the 1960`s. Now, the pistons and liners are still in good shape, but i do need new rings. Which brings me to ask if anyone recognizes the piston and rings in these two pics i will attempt to attach to my post. Hope someone does. Here goes...PISTON.jpg

piston Ring.jpg
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

Please note that the oil control ring is of a "multiple" variety, if thats even the right word for it. Hey, i can finally attach pics of the car ! So, anyone care to "Name that piston" ? Thanks !
Patrick
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:27 AM   #18
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

The piston looks like the typical split-skirt piston sold during the 1930's through 1960's as replacement for the Model-A. I have several sets in the original boxes made by such long-gone companies as Lynite, Ohio Piston, Vitalloy, etc. The oil ring is exactly like that made by Grant over many years and may still be available. I've got those too.
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Old 10-05-2019, 05:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

URSUS - Thanks for your very informative reply ! I will send Grant these pics and hope they still have them.

EVERYONE - At this point, I'm obviously convinced that this is not a "Transitional" A car, rather just a modified A or T. That said, I will just start a new Topic addressing such mods. Also, i will start another topic as well on other possible sources for the Piston Rings Thank you All !

Last edited by patrickt; 10-05-2019 at 06:09 PM. Reason: changed a word
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Information on "Transition" (1927) Model A

PatrickT,
If you can email pictures just send them to me at [scampout at comcast dot net] and I will post them for you. Jeff P.
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