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Old 06-20-2018, 03:26 PM   #1
leon bee
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Default 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

I've read so many old posts it kinda clogged my brain. For the next project, the first thing I need is a flywheel. I have no loose ones around here to look at. I have a real nice looking 8BA I bought from a member here. Later I went back and bought a transmission from him, also very nice.

It's, (I think) the light duty top shift 3 speed which would be appropriate for many F1 pickups. Complete with TO bearing and the internal mechanism. When he used it in a 48 F1, he used the 10 inch clutch. From my current 8BA project I have the old rusty 9 1/2" clutch to refer to. It's disc slides right on the transmission shaft.

This leads me to believe that, perhaps, the whole 9 1/2 setup would work between this engine and trans. I guess it would all depend on the depth of the various pressure plate rigs. Again, if I had any flywheels around here I'd find out! When I get a little more ready to spend some money, I'll call Mac VP and see what he says. The reason I'm thinking about the 9 1/2 flywheel is because I'll know one when I see it.

Sorry so wordy, any clarifying thoughts will be much appreciated.
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Old 06-20-2018, 04:43 PM   #2
19Fordy
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Leon, I am not sure what you are asking but, use the 10 inch clutch if you can.
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Old 06-20-2018, 05:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

The F1 toploader trans you acquired would have come with the large input shaft that’s 1-3/8” in diameter. If your 9-1/2” clutch disc slid right onto that input shaft, then someone has had the disc modified. However, the bigger issue is the 9-1/2” pressure plate.....unless they somehow modified that also, the three fingers are going to be too close together to work with the 1-3/8” input shaft.

Make your life simple....use the 10” clutch stuff. Then, either have your existing flywheel redrilled for a 10” clutch, or buy the matching 8BA flywheel that’s already drilled for the 10” clutch. We’ve got all this in stock......
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Old 06-20-2018, 07:45 PM   #4
leon bee
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Alright, thanks to you guys.....I'll think 10 inch. I believe I bookmarked an old post from here or the Hamb which shows the hole measurements for the correct flywheel. I'll be at my shop tomorrow to look at stuff.

What's confusing right now, sitting here, is what Mac says. The old friction disc I slid on my new 3 speed is what was replaced by a 9 1/2" setup for my coupe. A whole new clutch from Mac himself. So that's all assembled now and works great.

But here I am with an old nasty 9 1/2 disc off that car which fits right on my new top load 3 speed shaft. Which Mac says just ain't right. I didn't offer up the pressure plate to it. But what Mac says indicates the shaft going into that trans is different than it oughta be.

All good, I love talking about this stuff.
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

The Ford passenger cars used the first Borg Warner design transmission with no half bell at the front but the narrow 4-bolt pattern with a 1-inch 10-spline input shaft. They all use the 9 1/2-inch Long type clutch. The smaller input uses a smaller throw out as Mac VP mentioned. F1 pickups used the old top loader that dates back to 1939 and it has the half bell used in conjunction with a cast iron bell that fits the engine and a 10-inch Long clutch. The Mercury cars, Police cars, and station wagons used a combination of stuff. Mercury used the 10-inch Borg & Beck type clutch that had the 6 evenly spaced mounting bolts for the pressure plate. The 49 thru early 51 models also had transmissions with the 1 3/8-inch 10-spline like the trucks but they were all side shift types. The Police cars & station wagons may have the 10-inch Long clutch or the 10-inch Borg & Beck depending on year of manufacture but they are the 1-inch 10-spline types for the Ford & Late Mercury type transmissions. 49 thru 51 would have been same as late 52 & 53 Mercury but Mercury cars used mostly Borg & Beck.

The 10-inch Long type dating back to 1942 would be the best of the lot since they are the easiest to find parts for but the flywheels for them are not so common anymore. Drilling a 9.5" or an 11" truck flywheel would be the easiest way to come up with a 10-inch type flywheel.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-21-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:16 PM   #6
Art Newland
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

I feel your pain Leon, When I pulled my 49 F1 apart it has a 9.5 inch hybrid clutch in it. They both look as though they had very low miles on them but the rear rope seal leaked like crazy and soaked the disk lining. I have three flywheels, one for 11 inch and two for 9.5...
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File Type: jpg 9.5 disk.jpg (54.5 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg 9.5 PP.jpg (62.7 KB, 32 views)
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:27 PM   #7
leon bee
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Art, it is confusing when you don't have a parts pile. There are a couple guys in my county with collections, I need to hook up with them.

I did find this old thread where member 1930ModelA lists the flywheel drilling specs. That helps a lot:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19368
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Old 06-21-2018, 01:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Someone had to go to a lot of trouble to make this set-up, custom short levers and the 1 3/8 hub in the 9.5 disk. Can't find anyone to re-drill one of the flywheels for 10 inch, so trying to find one.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Take a look at this old link. https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...lling+flywheel
With a jig it would be less of a problem. A good drill press could drill the starter hole then finish off with a good tap after any re-centering if required and finish drilling for the correct tap size. 8BA flywheels are drilled through so no bottoming tap would be needed.

If a person has a good mill and a rotary index table, the jig really wouldn't be needed. Most machine shops should be able to do this.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-21-2018 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
Take a look at this old link. https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthrea...lling+flywheel
With a jig it would be less of a problem. A good drill press could drill the starter hole then finish off with a good tap after any re-centering if required and finish drilling for the correct tap size. 8BA flywheels are drilled through so no bottoming tap would be needed.

If a person has a good mill and a rotary index table, the jig really wouldn't be needed. Most machine shops should be able to do this.
They whine about not having the proper jig for set-up? I just think they don't want to do a one-off.

I have access to a CNC Mill, CAD and G-Code would be simple to make the jig in that thread (brilliantly simple!). I wonder what type of jig it would take to hold the flywheel (Mill is Big Bridgeport) and drill the new holes directly on the mill?
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Oh Oh. I re-drilled a flywheel with my Dad's bench-top Delta drill press when I was 19. I thought the new pressure plate made a pretty good jig. Ignorance is bliss.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:18 PM   #12
Art Newland
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Keeping it centered is the tricky part...lucky is better than being good any day. 8^)
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Old 06-21-2018, 10:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Here is a quick CAD drawing of the hand drawn one from the old thread.
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File Type: jpg redrill drawing.jpg (16.7 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg 11 to 10 inch clutch.jpg (23.9 KB, 37 views)
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

The diagram bugs me a little. The .500 dimension is not correct. It should be .500, but measured radially between the two holes, in other words, the radius that the outer set of holes is on is .500 bigger than the radius of the inner holes.

Call me picky, but That's how I see it.

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Last edited by Mart; 06-22-2018 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

That's why I'd use a rotary index table myself if I had one. Those things are expensive but they solve the radius problem and have lugs to clamp them to the mill table. A person can go right to the thousandths of an inch category.


I think the jig could be made to work OK but a person would have to draw it out properly on paper to get the radius in there from the center point of the pilot opening on the flywheel. Start with drawing the inner & outer circles with a compass off a center point. Draw out the radial lines at the proper degree of arc for each and then mark the centers on the intersection of the radials with the inner & outer circles. Technically there is a straight line between the centers of the new and original holes but not in the design factor. The straight intersecting line would be an afterthought. We are dealing with tight measurements too. Fractions are OK but it should be thousandths of an inch to be closer. It would suck to have to file the holes to center them up before reaming and tapping the bolt holes.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #16
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

I to think a rotary table would be best.
But to get it done for $259 you could have a new steel flywheel that Speedway sells.
It fits any combo you want.
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:57 AM   #17
Art Newland
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

I'm thinking this could be done pretty accurately with proper measurements as well. This inspires me enough I think I will order a 10" pressure-plate and disk and give it a try.
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File Type: jpg redrill drawing distantance between holes.jpg (21.0 KB, 30 views)
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

That's the right approach, the .5176 dimension needs to be .500.

There is a previous post where the bolt circles and the angular displacement between the holes were discussed.

From memory (don't rely on this) it was something like 9" has a 10-3/8" bolt circle, 10" is 11-3/8" circle and 11" is on a 12-3/8" circle. All have a 32 degree angle between the two paired holes.

I found the post, the info above is correct.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204069

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Old 06-22-2018, 09:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

I have the complete set up for the mill including all #s.
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File Type: jpg clutch repair 010.jpg (37.0 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg clutch repair 011.jpg (28.9 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg clutch repair 012.jpg (34.8 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Blueprint Flywheel Dimensions 017.jpg (32.5 KB, 50 views)
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Old 06-22-2018, 09:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: 8BA Flywheel/Clutch....I've Read TOO Much

Great info, thanks all.
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