Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-29-2014, 10:33 AM   #1
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,203
Default Hood adjustment

This is a question that might not find an easy answer here, but I thought I would try.

I put a reprod radiator on my roadster. Brassworks, I believe. I bought it used. I had swapped the original radiator with another original radiator in October and and the fit was as good as before. With the new radiator, the hood does not fit well. It could have been beginners luck last time.

I have adjusted the radiator rods to draw the radiator closer to the cowl and that helped some, but the gap on the cowl side is quite large. I am sure that there are a number of adjustments and shims that might help, but hopefully someone has some tips to help me out some. I will post a few photos later. Unfortunately, I do not have any before photos. There was a bit of a gap before, but it seems around 2x what I had before.

Thanks in advance
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 01:29 PM   #2
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7,368
Default Re: Hood adjustment

You say the cowl side. It would help to know which side of the cowl . In some cases adding more shims under the radiator on one side will shift the hood closer to the opposite side of the cowl. The rear hood hinge bracket on top of the tank can be shifted from side to side to slightly shift the hood at the rear . You didn't state what year model A . The 30-31 model A's have slotted holes in the front crossmember where the radiator mounts and the radiator can be shifted side to side to aid in hood alignment .
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-29-2014, 04:05 PM   #3
pooch
Senior Member
 
pooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Coast NSW Australia
Posts: 2,595
Default Re: Hood adjustment

Sounds like the base plates are too low, making the rad sit high.
pooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 06:11 PM   #4
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Hood adjustment

have you detached the radiator hoses, so that the radiator/shell/hood can "float", allowing you can shift it around easier to observe its various positions?
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 07:02 PM   #5
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,203
Default Re: Hood adjustment

It is a 28. The last thing I did was tighten and attach the hoses.

Here are photos of the hood:














What I hope shows is that the gap along the cowl along the passenger side is wide, that the front on the same side is tight, with more of a gap at the top. I have tightened the firewall to radiator rods to their tightest and there still is a gap. The gap on the driver's side is not as great, but still significant and at the rear of the hood, there seems like there is more of a gap than there should be.

I have added shims to the hood rood connector on the cowl.

It looks like radiator should be pushed back, if it can be, and the radiator is too high, causing the large gap at the bottom of the cowl.
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 07:25 PM   #6
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,678
Default Re: Hood adjustment

In looking at your photos you have multiple issues going on that each need to be corrected to get it better. It's best to analyze it thoroughly... realizing what actions will get the results you want.... with a little trial and error.

1. It looks from your images that you have a wide gap at the cowl at the bottom of the hood, and also a narrow gap at the bottom of the radiator shell/hood. This is because the radiator is too high... Hopefully there are some shims underneath the radiator. I would suggest removing at least one on each side of the radiator... see what that does. You can take the bolts out holding the radiator down temporarily so you can play with the gaps without having to go through the pains of putting them in and out till you're close.

2. From your center hinge photos the back of the hood has a gap between the hood and pin mount, and also at the front of the hood and the mount on the shell. This indicates the shell or radiator needs to go back slightly. Sometimes you have to enlarge the holes in the radiator mounts to get the clearance, and also make sure your shell bolts are loose and the shell pushed to the back as much as possible before tightening the shell hold down bolts and nuts.

3. the radiator brace rods can be used to slightly put a shift/torque on the alignment of the hood to cowl and shell to get a straight gap... but are not the primary adjustment for that... the above items are.

I don't want to get into the body alignment of it but it can be a factor too. Although I think with the radiator shimming/adding removing from each side that you can get pretty close. You may have to add a fiber washer/shim between the shell and the front of the hood rod to push the hood back if need be. I don't like to do this unless absolutely necessary... as sometimes they show.

Take your time, keep track of what you do... removing shims underneath the radiator will open the gap at the bottom of the shell and close the gap at the bottom of the hood at the cowl.... Final words, think about what you are doing... with methodology, and be patient. Sometimes aligning a hood is an hour or two if you're extremely lucky.. sometimes you can spend 20 hours... I have done many and patience is mandatory.
Best of luck!
Larry Shepard
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 07:28 PM   #7
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Hood adjustment

From your pix and last sentence in post #5 I would say your problem lies with the Axis points of the center hinge pin, not with your radiator rods. I would loosen the rods and upper hose as Eric suggested, and try some adjustments on that axis. Work from the front first. Larry's suggestions are excellent.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 07:40 PM   #8
Bruce Newbery
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Williams Lake B.C. Canada
Posts: 36
Default Re: Hood adjustment

I had the same problem as you have. I am building a car from the ground up and my frame and subframe were perfectly straight. I had to have two thick pads under my rad so the metal strap under the bottom rad hose would clear .I had a gap like you have. I took a old ford original rad and set it beside my new rad and it was easy to see why. I had to cut the metal strap under the lower rad hose and shorten it to allow the rad to sit lower. I cut the strap with a zip wheel and was very careful not to damage the rad, I bought the rad from Sacramento Ford and sending it back was not a option I live in British Columbia
Bruce Newbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 08:23 PM   #9
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Hood adjustment

I hate to complicate this more, but the front end of the 28-29 is a tight, awkward fit what with the hood shelves, radiator shell and radiator splash apron, compounded by repro fit problems. If I were you I would remove the hood shelves and splash apron to see if that facilitates a better fit. You don't need those to achieve the ideal fit you are seeking and perhaps those parts are hindering your fit....
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 09:05 PM   #10
SSsssteamer
Senior Member
 
SSsssteamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA
Posts: 929
Default Re: Hood adjustment

I just installed a new radiator in our 1929 Tudor last month and had about the same problems. I couldn't get the hood adjustment by working with only the radiator and the support rods. I ended up finding that the body shims that I had installed in 1968 were all loose. After I had pulled all of them up tight, the radiator now fits without any problems. That was also my last resort.
SSsssteamer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 09:57 PM   #11
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,203
Default Re: Hood adjustment

All great suggestions. My fit was not perfect before. The car is fairly new to me and I have not checked to see if the frame is perfectly straight, but I would be pleased to have it as good as it was before.

I have a washer as a shim on the driver's side (I think) but nothing other than the pad I bought from Bratton's on the passenger side. I was anxious to get the whole thing back together this weekend and given that I had had no problems the last time I did the swab, albeit with an original radiator, I, maybe foolishly, thought it would go as well this time. I will take everyone's advice this next time around to see if I can improve it. I am not sure what I can do about the height of the radiator, other than what Bruce suggested.

Thanks for all the tips everyone!
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 09:59 PM   #12
pooch
Senior Member
 
pooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Coast NSW Australia
Posts: 2,595
Default Re: Hood adjustment

I want to see a repo radiator in person before buying.

I don't reckon these chinese have a clue how to read a tape measure.

I looked some up just yesterday and checked their given core measurements to my 28 shell.

Only about 2 1/2 to 3 inches out is all....

I will be traveling past the city that most of these repos are in in February , so am gunna take my shell and an old original radiator and show the morons.

Ya can't get any sense out of them over text or phone.

Less than $200 sounds good for a fully welded alloy one that can be painted with black etch primer, but useless if it don't fit.
pooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 10:16 PM   #13
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,203
Default Re: Hood adjustment

This one is a Brassworks. I did not get it new. They get pretty good marks all around.
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 10:32 PM   #14
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Hood adjustment

this problem gets discussed often on this site. makes me wonder how they assembled these cars in a hustle while working on a moving line. of course the individual parts were precision-made back then, but I often wonder if the car bodies themselves have become slightly distorted or twisted over the years.
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2014, 10:38 PM   #15
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Hood adjustment

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhsprecher View Post
This one is a Brassworks. I did not get it new. They get pretty good marks all around.
ya think
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2014, 09:37 AM   #16
mhsprecher
Senior Member
 
mhsprecher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Takoma Park, MD
Posts: 2,203
Default Re: Hood adjustment

Well, Mitch, not by everyone, I guess. ;-).
mhsprecher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2014, 10:14 AM   #17
1wonton
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Vallejo, Ca
Posts: 125
Default Re: Hood adjustment

You have to shim the body (under the gas tank), adjusting the radiator rods wont eliminate the gap. Pretty easy actually but takes a little experimentation.
1wonton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2014, 12:01 PM   #18
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7,368
Default Re: Hood adjustment

Shimming the body probably will be needed. You must be very carefull when shimming the body or door alignment will be effected in a bad way. If the doors line up and open and shut good now, And I chose to shim the body, I would add the same amount of shims at each shim point from front to back. If some of the body bolts are tightened more than others this can also play havoc with door alignment. Order multiple sets of rubber shims from a model A vendor, this is what I do . Steel washers are thinner but could be used .
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2014, 12:02 PM   #19
ericr
Senior Member
 
ericr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,290
Default Re: Hood adjustment

most people say that the radiator roads are a source of adjustment but I wonder. could they be there there to merely stabilize and lock a position that has already been achieved. wouldn't trying to achieve significant adjustment through those rods put a strain on the radiator itself?
ericr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2014, 12:45 PM   #20
Tinbasher
Senior Member
 
Tinbasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada
Posts: 962
Default Re: Hood adjustment

From my first look it would say that the rad is too far to left. This is why the hood is tight to the cowl on the drivers side and wide on the passengers side. Remember your building a box. Everythings must be square and level to get things to fit. Length first, Width second and height third.

Hope this helps. The Old Tinbasher.
Tinbasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.