Cross member Blues

[lance leblanc]

Well things are'nt so cheerful around my garage today. Looks as if the front cross member has seen its better days.

From this picture would anyone think that repairing the existing cross member would even be an option vs replacing the cross member all together.
And what of the quality of reproduction pieces, I understand that original is best but are there many quality ones available?

[gpits68]

I just recently replaced mine.Arizona Model A had a few to select from.I ,with the help of 5 guys,replaced the rivets in the cross member .i got my frame rivets from McMaster and Carr for a great price and had plenty to practice with.Also plenty of information here on riveting.

[Keith True]

Myself,I would far rather fix that one than rivet another one in.I clamp a piece of copper under it,then just fill the hole with weld from my wire feed.The steel has to be CLEAN,no rust,paint,etc.The steel in a Model A frame welds like butter.You can just get a big puddle swirling around in there,melting it into the solid parent metal,and follow right up the cracks.If done right you can swirl a puddle right up the crack and beyond,leaving no crack at all to start again.I don't try to save the center bolt hole either,I weld it right shut and drill a new one.You can make it square again with a file in less than ten minutes.Now,if the rivets are loose and need redoing,I would just replace the crossmember.

[Pete]

Looks fixable to me. I would make pieces to fill the big gaps and tig weld it back together.
If you can't find a good tig welder in that area, you might talk to Fleming at Red Jacket Firearms. He seems to be pretty good, at least on the TV show.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Lance, repairing that crossmember is something that we have done on many other crossmembers, so IMHO yours IS repairable by cutting & fitting metal into the crossmember however I think us advising you how to proceed depends on your skills. To replace that crossmember will require an air rivet gun (like a 3X rivet gun) and possibly welding up existing holes to re-drill to the proper size. To repair it properly will require an electric welder and skill to fab. and make sufficient welds.

[Russ/40]

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I would fix it by cutting out all the damaged area with the exception of the right side crack, and putting a patch in. Any welding technique your comfortable with would be fine as long as you get full penetration. I'd "v" out the crack and weld it through. Grind to finish and red rill and file as needed to restore the proper holes.

[lance leblanc]

So glad to have some one assure me that its repairable. The rivets are tight and honestly I was feeling intimidated by the thought of riveting another one in its place. I have'nt the skills to weld it up myself but should'nt have much trouble finding some one who is qualified.
"Pete" I really like your idea of contacting Fleming at Red Jacket Fire Arms. I live right around the corner from their shop and I've always wished I had a project to bring to them. Who knows, might be something they could mount a pair of Thompson Machine Guns too.

[glenn in camino]

Grind the cracks yo V shapes and weld

[Purdy Swoft]

I always drill a small hole at the end of each crack to keep the cracks from running, then V grind the cracks, back the holes with copper and gas weld.

[columbiA]

That is very repairable if the rivets are still tight.I have seen many C M,s repaired by the quick & dirty method of scabbing a piece of flat iron over the broken section,but it will raise the crank hole 1/4" & may require more shims under rad to clear & will throw hood alignment off.

[lance leblanc]

shameless bump

[Russ/40]

Well. What are you waiting for? Fix it and show us the AFTER.

[Rowdy]

Mine does not have any missing pieces, but has more cracks than yours. I plan to fix mine. Yours looks repairable also. Getting easier to fix them then it is to find one that don't need repaired. Rod

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by lance leblanc

Well things are'nt so cheerful around my garage today. Looks as if the front cross member has seen its better days.

From this picture would anyone think that repairing the existing cross member would even be an option vs replacing the cross member all together.
And what of the quality of reproduction pieces, I understand that original is best but are there many quality ones available?

Lance My 28 crossmember was exactly like yours, I cut out the cracked area completely so it was equal on both sides of the center hole( About 8' long and 2" wide). I made my cuts right next to the curve in the front and back and made a nice deep V all the way around for a good weld then I turned it over and made a V in the bottom deep enough to get into the top weld and then weld again. That way you have 100% weld all the way through. I make sure my welds are full enough to grind and file so you cannot tell a repair was done. Then measure and drill the center hole and file it square. My frame was out so it was easy to turn over.
Good Luck, Bill

[lance leblanc]

Well its has taken some time but I have made some procress on the cross member. I had a friend TIG weld the cracks and holes leaving only the left hole for the crank guide. I re-drilled and filed square the Spring bolt hole as well as the right crank guide only to then realize then how bad the left hole is worn. Can anyone give me measurements of the holes them selves and their position in relation to the Spring bolt hole.
Im not trying to build a fine points car but I would like to avoid problems down the road if I can. The guide seats well now as it is now with only alittle of play while unbolted. I would like to think that it will be alignment once the engine is installed.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by lance leblanc

Well its has taken some time but I have made some procress on the cross member. I had a friend TIG weld the cracks and holes leaving only the left hole for the crank guide. I re-drilled and filed square the Spring bolt hole as well as the right crank guide only only to then realize then how bad the left hole is worn. Can anyone give memeasurements of the holes them selves and their position in relation to the Spring bolt hole.
Im not trying to build a fine points car but I would like to avoid problems down the road if I can. The guide seats well now as it is now with only alittle of play while unbolted. I would like to think that it will be alignment once the engine is installed.

Use the crank bearing as your guide for the alignnment holes. Use the tie bolt as your centerline.

[lance leblanc]

Thanks Brent, that is what I have done thus far, but having that much difference in the two bearing holes just has me concerned.

[Russ/40]

Great progress, it looks real nice.

[Randy in Illinois]

Fix it. You might want to drill a small hole at the end of the cracks to keep them from spreading with all that heat while welding up the other end of the crack.

[Steve Plucker]

Also,

Make sure that you place the crank bearing in the right position when adding the alignment holes on the cross member.

It is not much, but you can be a little to the right or left of center if the crank bearing is not right on as the bosses on the bottom of the crank bearings, some are off set...Not sure which one you are dealing with.

Pluck

[lance leblanc]

Pluck;
Thats just it, there is plenty of space to move right to left in the (unrepaired) side. The hole is 1/2" wide, is that the original design?
Attached is the bottom of the Crank Bearing

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by lance leblanc

Pluck;
Thats just it, there is plenty of space to move right to left in the (unrepaired) side. The hole is 1/2" wide, is that the original design?
Attached is the bottom of the Crank Bearing

Lance,

Go to my website...then go to Additional Studies...then go to the Starting Crank Bearing article. There you will learn about it.

Pluck

[tbirdtbird]

well i am just getting to this thread. very fixable as others have said. it was also mentioned with that much cracking to cut out the bad area and weld in a patch, which is what I would have done, since so much cracking indicates a lot of metal fatigue in that area, too easy for it to crack somewhere else. You did not mention if this was done, or just TIGed.
Frames like to do this right at the rear engine mounts and the metal there is very fatigued. I cut out a good sized area and cut pieces of unstressed metal from a 'junk' (spare) frame to replace the whole area to weld in. Good luck

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here the first 3 pictures show a 1928 frame that was repaired and the holes weren't redrilled until I did the job. I don't recall the distance, but it should be easy to measure from the starter hand crank bearing. The last picture shows my 9-27-28 frame after I cleaned off a bunch of old dirt and grease/oil. The passenger side has the closer hole.

[lance leblanc]

Thanks Plunk and the rest who offered info. This is why I now consider Fordbarn a essential part of my day routine.