Rumble Lock Won't Fit in Deck Lid - I Still Don't Get It

[eystein]

I am trying to fit a lock which I thought was original into my deck lid. (1930 car)

The lock is 1.5" thick including the circular part that faces the handle side,

Now, the distance between the inner panel and the skin of the deck lid is only 1 1/4 " at the hole for the lock and even much less at the edge of the large inner panel hole where I have to slip in the lock. So, the lock does not fit

Can anyone tell me if it is the lock, deck lid or both which is incorrect ?

[Drive Shaft Dave]

The lock you have is for a rumble lid configuration. The lock you need has a much shorter tubular section. You must be putting together a deck lid for a trunk.

[eystein]

I am fitting the lock for a RUMBLE lid configuration - and it doesn't fit.

Can you confirm that the rumble lock measures 1.5" across like mine. Can anyone confirm the distance between the lid structure and skin at the RUMBLE lock position, or post a picture of the inner surface of the lid in this area so that I can asess if the inner structure has been bent out of shape

[Marco Tahtaras]

My old photo below is less than ideal but your pic looks like the lid is thinner than is should be. I'm also confused on the history of your decklid. it has never been used as a rumble lid. Is it an original trunk lid (which should still work) or is it a reproduction?

[Kevin in NJ]

Do you have the wrong rumble lid?

Here is how you tell Rumble lids

The 28-29 lid will use the short collar at the top or bottom

The 30-31 lid will use the short 'trunk' latch at the bottom and long rumble latch, you show, at the top.

As you can also see the 28-29 type has the catch mounted on the forward part of the gutter.

If you are still not sure take a picture of the top of your lid and post it.

[Marco Tahtaras]

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Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Do you have the wrong rumble lid?

Here is how you tell Rumble lids

The 28-29 lid will use the short collar at the top or bottom

The 30-31 lid will use the short 'trunk' latch at the bottom and long rumble latch, you show, at the top.

As you can also see the 28-29 type has the catch mounted on the forward part of the gutter.

If you are still not sure take a picture of the top of your lid and post it.

He provided a pic of the lid. We were posting at the same time but my post covered the issues based on his pic.

[pooch]

I see that lid has been sandblasted.

I hope you have not got round holes sucked in from the outside skin where the blaster hit the inside of the skin thru the inside holes.

Run a body file over the outside and check.

This can be classic warpage from a shoddy blaster.

With the amount of curvature of a rumble lid, you may have escaped warpage, with a door skin you won't.

[Kevin in NJ]

Lid looks beat in on the inside. You will have pull the inner structure out. You will need some distance measurements. You goals are to have the latch fit and the rumble seat springs have to fit flat.

The parts all have to fit nice together and look right. You might not get the inner structure back to perfect so keep fit nice and look right in your mind.

[eystein]

Thank you all for your responses.

My rumble lid is an original trunk lid although with quite a bit of repairs.

I think Kevin is probably right on the mark. If the lid inner structure is supposed to be flat, that's the problem. On my lid it is a little pushed in, although it does not appear dented unless you know that it is supposed to be flat.

See attached photo.

I think that it should not be a problem to straighten the inner struucture.

The important thing is that you confirm that I have got the correct lock, and that it should measure 1.5" thick

[eystein]

Now, I am only missing that handle for the LID !!!

Either an original Scroll locking rumble handle from a cabriolet , or a scroll locking handle from a Slant Windshield car, which I can modify

[eystein]

So, I have now straightened the inner panel of the rumble lid such that the area around the handle looks level with the rest. This has brought the clearance between the inner panel and outer skin approximately to the 1.5" needed to clear the lock.

However, all around the round holes in the inner panel there are pressed lips that make the clearance where I will insert the lock approximately 1/4" less. So, there is no way that the lock will slip in without bending up the lip. See first photo below.

Now one observation is making me think. The cylindrical part of the lock is detachable from the lock body. (See second photo).

Now, am I supposed to detach the cylinder from the lock, mount the lock body inside the lid, and then insert the cylindrical part from the outside of the lid ? - Then hold the cylindrical part in place and cover it all up with the escutcheon plate for the handle (See third photo)

The problem that I have with this, is that in the instructions for converting from trunk to rumble on Kevin's site it tells you to drill a 15/16" hole in the skin, while the diameter of the cylindrical part is in excess of 1 1/8" (See fourth photo).

Now, the instructions say that they were written in 1928, so is the detachable nature of the lock cylinder, the method to insert the lock and the diameter of the hole to be drilled in the outer skin that I describe above a difference for 1930/31 with respect to 1928/29

Is the method that I outline above correct for 1930/31 ? Will the escutcheon plate cover a 1 1/8 " hole? (I am not sure that the one I show in the photo is correct for my car)

[Kevin in NJ]

Here are some pictures of an original latch in my repro 31 lid. You can see I had to do some adjustments to the fit of the lid. An original Ford lid would come out perfect.
In the first picture you see the outside of the lid.
The next picture shows inside the lid.

Then we go inside the structure. You looking the inside of the outer sheet metal. Yes I have a mess to clean up inside there from buffing.

The last is just an outside view, you can see I had to alter the hole in the structure. I did not have a nut on the handle when I was fitting stuff together in primer. Had to make the hole a bit bigger.

The latch does not need to be taken apart to get it in place. The distance from the inside of the outer skin to the inner structure is about 1 7/8". I believe the inner structure metal is deformed and needs to be pulled out a lot more. If you have some original springs try putting them in place and see how well they form to the metal, they should be a decent fit.

In picture 4 this area I welded up on the this repro lid and recut and redrilled. This brought the top of the latch to touching the underside of the skin. This also cause the top edge of the lid to line up with the top edge of the upper panel.

[Marco Tahtaras]

What concerns me now is that the latch will be unstable. The two parts should never have been separated. It's probably not a huge deal but originally the unit was extremely solid.

I really don't recall the specifics but I'm quite certain the flange at the upper part of the hole was originally flattened as Kevin did on his repro lid. I never had difficulty sliding my latch in an out but there was NO extra space and no force on the sheet metal required at any point. That was probably the only good area on my entire Roadster when I started!

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Here are some pictures of an original latch in my repro 31 lid. You can see I had to do some adjustments to the fit of the lid. An original Ford lid would come out perfect.
In the first picture you see the outside of the lid.
The next picture shows inside the lid.

Then we go inside the structure. You looking the inside of the outer sheet metal. Yes I have a mess to clean up inside there from buffing.

The last is just an outside view, you can see I had to alter the hole in the structure. I did not have a nut on the handle when I was fitting stuff together in primer. Had to make the hole a bit bigger.

The latch does not need to be taken apart to get it in place. The distance from the inside of the outer skin to the inner structure is about 1 7/8". I believe the inner structure metal is deformed and needs to be pulled out a lot more. If you have some original springs try putting them in place and see how well they form to the metal, they should be a decent fit.

Kevin,

It looks to me you will need to weld a thin flat washer into the hole in the inner skin. This will provide both the desired smaller hole and a smooth surface for the tabbed locking washer to ride on. If you have any gap between the inner skin and the latch you will need to either tap the inner skin inward to eliminate that gap or place a shim in there and hope you have enough length on the handle shaft to secure it properly. Likewise if you have ANY gap between the latch and the outer skin it will pull a depression into the surface of the deck lid unless some careful shimming is done there.

Left "as is" will cause grief for sure.

[eystein]

Thanks Kevin and Marco,

I guess that I will flatten the lip and lift the inner panel slightly while easing the lock in.

It does surprise me, however, because the lip seems to have been there from the start. It does not seem to have been formed later. (and why should anyone want to do that?)

So, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the inner panels must have been different, with the lip at this hole flattened only for the lids that were supposed to be rumble lids from the start.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by eystein

Thanks Kevin and Marco,

So, the only conclusion that I can come to is that the inner panels must have been different, with the lip at this hole flattened only for the lids that were supposed to be rumble lids from the start.

That's my best guess as well. They obviously knew when one was going to be a rumble lid as they also had reinforcements inside for the hinges to mount which were done before the outer skin was installed.

[Randy in ca]

Here's a couple of pictures of one I was working on a couple of years ago. Either the upper half of the lip on the hole came flattened from the factory, or someone did an excellent job of it later. Also including a picture of a reproduction inner skin - what can give the illusion that there is a slight recess in the latch area is only the way in which the corner is squared off there to accommodate the fitting of the latch on the inside. Hope this helps some.