Water Pumps

[GEOFFNZ]

Hi All,
We run a vintage 284 competition engine which in retirement is not running over 4000 revs. We have found that for best results for water retention we are running a 13 lb cap against the original 4lb.We are now replacing the original pumps with modern Bob Drake versions.My question is do we need to remove alternate impellor blades and run restrictors as in the present system or is that history.The crank pulley is also smaller than original.With this existing system we can keep running temp to around 190F .Cheers, Geoff

[Bassman/NZ]

Hi Geoff,
I run Drakes pumps and Subaru Justy thermostats in my 239. I run a 66 Mustang radiator with a 7lb cap and a recovery bottle. The highest it gets to is about 190F, mostly sits on 185F. None of this is much use to you, I guess, but if you're like me the information all goes into the big garbage dump that is my mind and contributes to my knowledge.

[Fairlane500]

Geoff, I run the Drake pumps without modification or restrictors, 7lb cap also, you should be good to go, JG

[JSeery]

At 4000 rpm don't think the water pumps (cavitation) should be much of an issue and 190° sound like a good running temp.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

I'm running Drake pumps in my stock coupe...very impressed with them.

GB

[fordlovr]

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Hi Geoff,how about some pics of your race car for the other Barners to see?

[GEOFFNZ]

Hi Bryn.Not too good on photos.I know there have been posts explaining it but like Bassman all the info goes into a big pit and for me some sticks and some don,t.There are a couple of videos of the car.Anybody interested just google Geoff Townshend you tube. There is a lot of flathead stuff there and our car is called MGV as it is basically early 30s MG with 39 Ford running gear.Thanks for the replies.Looks like unmodified Drake pumps and 7lb cap would work fine.Cheers, Geoff.

[JSeery]

The problem with posting photos is normally the size, if you don't know how to resize them it can be an issue. If you want to email me some photos I can post them for you. [email protected]

[blucar]

Originally Posted by GEOFFNZ

Hi All,
My question is do we need to remove alternate impellor blades and run restrictors as in the present system or is that history..Cheers, Geoff

I find the preceding question to be very interesting. Another example of old habits that just won't die.
Cutting the alternating impellers from Ford water pumps and installing 1/2" flat washers in the upper radiator hoses was first suggested by a very well know "speed merchant" in the late '40's for use on his drag race cars.
Many people thought that this trick would work on their street rods, so it became the norm. A friend of mine just did this modification to a 59AB engine in a '36 pickup, now he can't figure out why the engine runs hot..
There are several vendors, Drake, Speedway and Skip Hanley that have waterpumps with improved impellers that increase coolant flow and thereby improve cooling..

[Jet96]

Dang, that thing sounds like it's been eatin' its spinach for sure! Nice sounding flattie!

[Bassman/NZ]

Blucar is right. More flow = good, less flow = not good.

[FlatheadTed]

This is just my take on it , the stock pumps are quite ok were the problem is the radiators do not except the flow .On the early pumps the water is pumped into the top tank so more flow by the pump the more chances of the water being pumped out the over flow .The only way to make the most of a high flow pump is put a restrictor on the over flow so any increase does not go out .On a stock pump this applies also, if the radiator is restricted then a valve will make the pump pump much better .I think any thing over 3LB will work you solder and cracks will show up. Was the guy having problems before with the 36 pick up that's why he cut each second blade ? Ted

[JSeery]

This is a race modification to reduce the drag on the pumps, reduce water flow rate and prevent cavitation. These type of mods are done to this day on some race engines. For drag racing the engine does not run long enough to be to concerned about overheating. With this type of modification you would most likely not be running a fan as well. On cars I ran we didn't run a fan or water pump, just had to wait for it to cool down after a run. In the early days of drag racing you could push the car to near the start line (so no starters) and turn it off at the finish line (push car followed you down the track). There was also a belief at one time that flatheads moved the water to quickly through the blocks and by slowing the flow down the water had additional time to absorb heat. Washer would be placed in the return hoses to the radiator to restrict flow. As with most race modifications, what works on the track (if it even does work!) translates poorly to a street driven car.

[FlatheadTed]

I agree Jseery in a race situation high revs lots heat ,poor air flow ,lots pump flow .On my last post I did say that a check valve would most likely be needed with drake pumps .I have just done a conversion on a 21 stud car that has a partly blocked radiator that was over heating .I may be proven to be wrong yet ,I will see after testing .Ted

[JSeery]

Ya, I like the idea of the 3 lbs pressure valves on the overflow. I have never used one but I am going to try one on my 33 coupe. It has a 59a engine in it and they tend to push coolant out the overflow.

[JSeery]

GEOFFNZ sent these photos of his car (see OP). It is pretty cool!

"A couple of photos of both the car and the engine which is
the most important bit to us. The mechanicals of the car are all 39
Ford. Still sorting a new computer which at this stage is
winning. Thanks and cheers."

[KiWinUS]

Geoff , that video made me homesick , spent many a weekend at Ruapuna in me teens !!!
You probably raced against my great friend Russell Haines in his Frangapelli . Russ is also a big flathead guy !!!
Have fun !
Cheers
Tony

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Geoff , that video made me homesick , spent many a weekend at Ruapuna in me teens !!!
You probably raced against my great friend Russell Haines in his Frangapelli . Russ is also a big flathead guy !!!
Have fun !
Cheers
Tony

I spent many a day at Ruapuna back in the 60s, watching Allcomer racing.

[Phil Gillespie]

Geoff, Is the car going to Ellesmere for the Day in the Dirt?

Phil Gillespie

[GEOFFNZ]

Hi KiWinUS,Yes I know Russ Haines.A very friendly bloke and clever engineer who gets huge horse power out of the Holden 6 in Frangapelli.Have had afew flathead yarns with him.He is always in the front pack while I am usually near the back.Glad you enjoyed the clip.And Phil.No won't take car to day in dirt as still sorting water pumps which failed at Ruapuna.will go for a look. Cheers Geoff