oil pump

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by codeplus

Ronnieroadster,Yes I do have the beehive oil filter. Pressure in on the bottom and out the side. Pressure line in from rear of block right?

The feed would be from the rear of the block out of the original oil sender location. Im not sure how the oil line would connect to the housing however if its like the original flathead set up the oil line coming out the bottom of the housing is the oil return to the oil pan only. Since its a beehive i would expect the oil return is only going to the oil pan just draining back into the pan not feeding the engine the oil under pressure. If the beehive is being used to actually feed the engine oil under pressure that may be the cause of the failure first if the oil lines are installed backwards and second the fact the beehive as far as i know is not designed to be the actual oil feed supply for the engine such as feeding oil under pressure to the bearings. Pictures of how the oil lines are connected would help determine how its actually being used.
Ronnieroadster

[codeplus]

[attach]Beehive.jpg[/attach]

[codeplus]

The return line to the block/oil pan comes out the side,pressure in the bottom.

[Bored&Stroked]

If it is a metered or drip feed oil filter (has an orifice), then it should exit back to the oil pan.

But, as Ronnie noted, has your block been modified for a 95% or full-flow oiling system? When this is done, the full oil pressure (or supposedly 95% of it) comes out the oil fitting that is horizontal at the back of the block, goes through the oil filter and comes back to the oil galley - usually to a second oil fitting that is vertical (that goes down to the main galley). This requires specific (non-standard) modifications to the rear oil galley areas (the vertical and horizontal galleys that meet up where the standard oil pressure gauges tapped into). If the block was modified and you don't have a full-flow filtration system (correctly installed), then you'll not have oil pressure to the engine.

Do you know if the original builder of this engine had modified the stock oiling system and drilled/tapped and blocked off the main horizontal galley that transfers oil from the vertical galley from the pump output to the horizontal cross-galley that feeds the main oil galley tube at the back on the engine?

If these mods were NOT made, then it really wouldn't matter if you installed a drip-feed system backwards (if that is what the beehive is) as the main galleys would have plenty of oil pressure and flow. (Assuming the orifice is inline at some point).

Also, it is weird that you originally saw oil pressure??? Where was the gauge plugged into the system?

[Tim Ayers]

Also, it is weird that you originally saw oil pressure??? Where was the gauge plugged into the system?[/QUOTE]

This is what got me about the original post. He said he had oil pressure, heard a noise and then no oil pressure.

[codeplus]

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oil sender.jpg
This is the pressure line to the filter with the sending unit.

[codeplus]

I have another flathead motor and the lines are in the same location. The return line is actually in the block above the oil pan.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by codeplus

I have another flathead motor and the lines are in the same location. The return line is actually in the block above the oil pan.

All of that is fine so the oil system is not modified and unfortunately you need to get in the engine to see what may have happened. When it comes to the oil pump I have seen pumps which are a copy of the Melling and original Ford but made off shore sold by Speedway and Macs and maybe others. These pumps have a drive gear thats only pressed onto the pump shaft. The Ford and Melling pump gears are a shrink fit on the pump shaft and also have a pin going threw the gear and shaft to add to the toque transfer. When the oil pump is working theres a lot of pressure on the drive gears. Another area of failure I have seen on an NOS cam i installed in a Flathead once was the oil pump drive gear pressed on to the rear of the cam came completely off. That gear is how the entire oil pump drive is driven. You can see the pump drive assembly from the rear gear cover once the flywheel is removed. But of course the engine needs to come out to check this area.
Ronnieroadster

[codeplus]

Thanks for all the advice. I have a feeling it`s the knock off pump you described as he bought a lot of parts from Speedway. Pulling the motor the next day or two and bringing it to a reputable shop in Minneapolis. Thanks again, Dave

[Desoto291Hemi]

Sorry Dave,,,I know it hurts.
Ronnie knows his stuff ,,,you can depend on what he says about Flatheads.

Tommy

[codeplus]

Ya it sucks. It`s in a 29 roadster and I was about to send it to the upholstery shop. I have to take it out very carefully.

[GOSFAST]

Hi Dave, if you get to the point of opening that unit all the way up again I would talk with the shop owner and ask him to set up for the 95% filter system, really the best way to go.

We've done a number of them at this stage and every customer in the end was very happy with the setup.

Two very specific items we use here are the Melling (M-19) pumps and the Johnson (Topline) VT-2032 lifters, we use no other brands in this area!

I have another (future) build going on here with that remote "bee-hive" filter setup (photo below), I don't see any issues with this setup but we will be modifying the block!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Also, try to stay with known brand name parts, not the "generic" stuff sold by many vendors today! This isn't meant to be a "knock" on Speedway, but I got the chance very recently to work with a couple of their pieces, was not at all impressed with any of it, especially their cast-aluminum timing cover. It was simply a "no-fit" proposition from the start! They claimed it was an Offy piece but there were no markings!

[Tim Ayers]

Gary,

Somewhere in the thread the OP mentioned that the builder has since passed away, so the OP is on his own unfortunately.

I'm also curious if the Offenhauser parts that Speedway sells are really connected to the Offenhauser we know.

The original Offenhauser has switched to a yellow & red lettered logo. The Offenhauser logo Speedway is using is the old style logo the company used in the 50's & '60's.

The new Offy company seems to be on point and I don't think they would release something that didn't fit. Plus, all of their parts are still made and machined in CA. Nothing they make is offshore.

I wonder if Speedway bought the rights to the old logo.

Does anyone know?

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Desoto291Hemi

Sorry Dave,,,I know it hurts.
Ronnie knows his stuff ,,,you can depend on what he says about Flatheads.

Tommy

Very true. I meant to ask the OP. When you said you had oil pressure, are we talking for a few minutes or for a while, then you heard the sound and then nothing?

[JSeery]

Think he posted total run time as 5 minutes and only part of that with oil pressure.

[codeplus]

JSeey,correct.

[Desoto291Hemi]

Tim Ayers,

Sorry to leave you out.
I have seen your name listed with respect here as well.
And Gary also.

Man it amazes me that so many awesome Flathead guys are from NY, NJ, and Connecticut.
I guess I always assumed that they were all from California .
My apologies,,,,,shows how little I know,,,Lol.

I listen all I can.

Tommy

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Desoto291Hemi

Tim Ayers,

Sorry to leave you out.
I have seen your name listed with respect here as well.
And Gary also.

Man it amazes me that so many awesome Flathead guys are from NY, NJ, and Connecticut.
I guess I always assumed that they were all from California .
My apologies,,,,,shows how little I know,,,Lol.

I listen all I can.

Tommy

Tommy,

Thank you for the kind words, but I am with you. I'm just here to learn and pass along the little I know. I'd always defer to the big guns here.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Gary,

Somewhere in the thread the OP mentioned that the builder has since passed away, so the OP is on his own unfortunately.

I'm also curious if the Offenhauser parts that Speedway sells are really connected to the Offenhauser we know.

The original Offenhauser has switched to a yellow & red lettered logo. The Offenhauser logo Speedway is using is the old style logo the company used in the 50's & '60's.

The new Offy company seems to be on point and I don't think they would release something that didn't fit. Plus, all of their parts are still made and machined in CA. Nothing they make is offshore.

I wonder if Speedway bought the rights to the old logo.

Does anyone know?

Hi Tim, it's almost impossible today to know where parts are mfd, this is the reason we stay the course with the mfrs we've been dealing with for a long time now. I am still OK with Offenhauser.

After all the recent "checking", for example the "new" Navarro heads, we just tend to not believe "advertised" info any longer!

Many parts being mfd off-shore are not necessarily "bad", the best valves in the world (this is strictly my own opinion here) are mfd in Argentina by Ferrea!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. During the time we were examining those Navarro's, the same time the Edelbrock's still hadn't been released, I contacted Vince out at Offenhauser to find out when they would have some new heads available. Normally I speak with either Tay (Offenhauser) himself or Vince, Vince informed me Tay doesn't spend a lot of time there anymore. I didn't ask why, I can only surmise?? He also stated they were working on the new heads, this was the exact info I got over a year ago or more! I was looking to put about 10 heads on the shelf. I did learn Vince is building his own Flathead, he asked for some "tips" which I gladly supplied.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by GOSFAST

Hi Tim, it's almost impossible today to know where parts are mfd, this is the reason we stay the course with the mfrs we've been dealing with for a long time now. I am still OK with Offenhauser.

After all the recent "checking", for example the "new" Navarro heads, we just tend to not believe "advertised" info any longer!

Many parts being mfd off-shore are not necessarily "bad", the best valves in the world (this is strictly my own opinion here) are mfd in Argentina by Ferrea!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. During the time we were examining those Navarro's, the same time the Edelbrock's still been hadn't released, I contacted Vince out at Offenhauser to find out when they would have some new heads available. Normally I speak with either Tay (Offenhauser) himself or Vince, Vince informed me Tay doesn't spend a lot of time there anymore. I didn't ask why, I can only surmise?? He also stated they were working on the new heads, this was the exact info I got over a year ago or more! I was looking to put about 10 heads on the shelf. I did learn Vince is building his own Flathead, he asked for some "tips" which I gladly supplied.

Hi Gary:

What ever came about that issue with the Navarro heads from CA?

So glad I still have mine that I go from Barney directly.

Thanks,

Tim