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Old 08-30-2016, 07:00 PM   #1
clo2jim
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Default Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

From Jeff Lee and the "Maritme Pre-War Car Registry", which I am a member.

"I donít think too many of our PreWar members will be out trailering a Rolls with a Land Rover. But just the same, here are some unpleasant reminders of why you need to check out your tow vehicle, trailer and trailered car. And donít forget to insure your car when you get it. Sometimes it pays to have the auto movers move old cars instead of ourselves."


http://www.prewarcar.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qku6...ature=youtu.be

Vehicle loading and tongue weight balance can be important especially with torsion bar load levelers.


"Maritime Pre-War Car Registry" is a group of old car enthusiasts from mainly the Canadian Maritime Provinces (Nova Scotia. New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island) with a few members from North East States and Ontario, Canada, where I am from. As far as I am aware, the oldest running car in the Registry is a 1905 Cadillac and the newest that is usually on our tours is a 1940 Chevrolet Two Door.

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Old 08-30-2016, 07:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

im glad noone was hurt, but from thier website they speclate the air suspension of the land rover suddenly failed. when yo have airbags as spring and all of a sudden you have no springs yea doesnt take much to go outa control.

Im guessing that trailer doesnt have any brakes?
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Old 08-30-2016, 08:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

What a shame.

a) the driver of the Range Rover clearly did not know what he was doing.
b) The Range Rover is decidedly a very poor choice of a towing vehicle in this case. It is not heavy enough. We have worked on several Range Rovers here in this shop and frankly we feel they are engineered and built very poorly. I myself would not tow a kid's wagon with one
c) I seriously doubt the trailer had its own brakes else I doubt this would have happened.
d) I doubt tongue weight was anywhere near correct...I bet the rig was fishtailing
e) I think the most likely explanation is jack knife, from which there is no recovery

just my opinion of course
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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What a shame.

a) the driver of the Range Rover clearly did not know what he was doing.
b) The Range Rover is decidedly a very poor choice of a towing vehicle in this case. It is not heavy enough. We have worked on several Range Rovers here in this shop and frankly we feel they are engineered and built very poorly. I myself would not tow a kid's wagon with one
c) I seriously doubt the trailer had its own brakes else I doubt this would have happened.
d) I doubt tongue weight was anywhere near correct...I bet the rig was fishtailing
e) I think the most likely explanation is jack knife, from which there is no recovery
I'm with you, Tbird. My first impression was "This guy didn't know how to tow!"
Once a jackknife occurs, there is no recovery but if you know what you are doing, even a big sway can be recovered.
Wonder what his dry cleaning bill was????
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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What a shame.

a) the driver of the Range Rover clearly did not know what he was doing.
b) The Range Rover is decidedly a very poor choice of a towing vehicle in this case. It is not heavy enough. We have worked on several Range Rovers here in this shop and frankly we feel they are engineered and built very poorly. I myself would not tow a kid's wagon with one
c) I seriously doubt the trailer had its own brakes else I doubt this would have happened.
d) I doubt tongue weight was anywhere near correct...I bet the rig was fishtailing
e) I think the most likely explanation is jack knife, from which there is no recovery
I think that you will find that rather a lot of the World's experts will disagree with your opinion of the Range Rover. The best dual purpose 4x4 by far.
In Europe the trailer will have had brakes. I suggest you stop speculating about an article's speculation and learn the facts.
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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From the comments, that trailer could have weighed 4 tons.

Looks like it fish tailed a few times ... getting bigger and bigger each time ... whipping the Range Rover from one side of the road to another until the Range Rover flipped.

If you have ever seen this happening when it is coming towards you, you won't forget it.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

Looks to me like the Rolls should have been towing the Range Rover.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

It leaves us with a lot to think about! I haven't done that much towing in my life but thank God none it wound up like this poor guy. The closest I ever came was with my first trailer. It was empty and it fishtailed quite a bit. I was taking it to get it welded and the hitch broke off and it wound up freewheeling into a farmer's field. I never even knew till I checked the mirror and saw it was gone. I found it about a mile back. I used every piece of chain and rope on board and didn't have far to go.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

haha looks like someone struck a nerve. Ya have to wonder why everyone on this side of the pond is hauling with 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickups or larger...

the video speaks for itself
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

Silverado 2500 the best tow vehicle you can buy.
I feel bad for the guy. My speculation was he was traveling to fast with too heavy a tongue load causing fishtailing as others have said. It appears to be on a long straight away. So we know he didn't hit a curve too fast. Instead of just dropping his foot off the gas he probably tried to steer out of it. Range Rovers are great dual purpose vehicles I'm sure but a short wheel base makes for tricky towing especially with an extra heavy load that's too far forward on the trailer. Always step back and asses your load before you strap it down. Its ok to move the car around to make it safer.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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Silverado 2500 the best tow vehicle you can buy.
I feel bad for the guy. My speculation was he was traveling to fast with too heavy a tongue load causing fishtailing as others have said. It appears to be on a long straight away. So we know he didn't hit a curve too fast. Instead of just dropping his foot off the gas he probably tried to steer out of it. Range Rovers are great dual purpose vehicles I'm sure but a short wheel base makes for tricky towing especially with an extra heavy load that's too far forward on the trailer. Always step back and asses your load before you strap it down. Its ok to move the car around to make it safer.
I think you mean not enough hitch weight. I've never seen (or heard of) a trailer whipping from TOO MUCH hitch weight but too little hitch weight and it's impossible to control.
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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I think you mean not enough hitch weight. I've never seen (or heard of) a trailer whipping from TOO MUCH hitch weight but too little hitch weight and it's impossible to control.
yeah I got that backwards
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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I think you mean not enough hitch weight. I've never seen (or heard of) a trailer whipping from TOO MUCH hitch weight but too little hitch weight and it's impossible to control.
Yep, been there done that. I went to pick up a 1929 Chevy 1 1/2 ton truck, and the seller loaded the truck bed full of tires and other parts. Luckily I only had about 80 miles to drive and it was way out in the country, because I had to drive no faster than about 22 MPH all the way home.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

too much hitch weight will take weight off the front wheels of the tow vehicle and you will have understeer

GMC has info on how to calculate what your tongue weight should be
http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/w...fe-towing.html

You can use a bathroom scale and a length of 4x4 to calculate your tongue weight yourself. Google it
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
too much hitch weight will take weight off the front wheels of the tow vehicle and you will have understeer

GMC has info on how to calculate what your tongue weight should be
http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/w...fe-towing.html

You can use a bathroom scale and a length of 4x4 to calculate your tongue weight yourself. Google it


I think you mean not enough hitch weight. I've never seen (or heard of) a trailer whipping from TOO MUCH hitch weight but too little hitch weight and it's impossible to control.


As the link says, tongue weight (known here as drawbar weight) should be about 10-15% of the all up weight of the trailer. Let's say the trailer and Rolls weighted 4 tons. That would mean a tongue weight of 800-1200 pounds. I'm not so sure that tow car would handle that much weight on its @ss very well. I've seen one of these with the tow bar pulled out of it when towing a mid sized caravan. WRONG CHOICE OF TOW CAR.
As for impossible to control - you've only got to know when to hit the brakes to straighten it out. I've done it. Recovered from a sway so wide that I could see the side of the trailer in the rear view mirror. I was on a busy 3 lanes each way road and it was amazing how quickly I had it all to myself.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:31 PM   #16
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Synchro you are a lucky boy. I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. True the only way out of fishtailing is braking and ice in your veins. Harmonics will not be denied. But if you don't catch it.....take your choice of flipping or jack knifing.
That car would barely properly haul a lightweight Model A roadster on a 14' trailer
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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Synchro you are a lucky boy. I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. True the only way out of fishtailing is braking and ice in your veins. Harmonics will not be denied. But if you don't catch it.....take your choice of flipping or jack knifing.
That car would barely properly haul a lightweight Model A roadster on a 14' trailer
Can't argue with that last sentence. It was not luck that I was able to control that trailer and that was not the only time I have done it. Call me a slow learner if you like! As teenagers we gave this some thought after seeing someone crash as a result of a fish tailing trailer. We figured that the time to hit the brakes was when the trailer was at full amplitude and just starting to come back towards the centre. The slowing car makes it more difficult for the trailer to centre itself, so the fish tailing diminishes. The hard part is remembering to do it when the time comes. It's amazing how these things come back to you in a rush when you need them.
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Old 09-01-2016, 11:40 AM   #18
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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Synchro you are a lucky boy. I hope you bought a lottery ticket that day. True the only way out of fishtailing is braking and ice in your veins. Harmonics will not be denied. But if you don't catch it.....take your choice of flipping or jack knifing.
That car would barely properly haul a lightweight Model A roadster on a 14' trailer
Are you talking about the Range Rover? If so you Americans must have unnecessarially heavy 14' trailers.
Look at the facts.
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capaci...=Range%20Rover
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Old 09-01-2016, 12:05 PM   #19
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Lightbulb Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

Just about every day I see something like this ....



This was the westbound I-90 about (2) weeks ago just west of Billings, MT.



Ironically I am headed to Billings today to drop off a 1938 Cadillac ....





Jim
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Old 09-01-2016, 03:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Of Interest to members, a reminder of why to inspect your tow rig.

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Are you talking about the Range Rover? If so you Americans must have unnecessarially heavy 14' trailers.
Look at the facts.
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capaci...=Range%20Rover
That would be fine "when things are loaded absolutely perfectly". However, it would appear that they are just not built to handle things when they go sideways. I find it interesting that, in the graph there are 2 2006 models that have a curb weight of 1399kg and 1400kg (not much more than my '31 model a pickup), and yet, the towing weight is the same 7700 lbs as the ones listed at almost twice curb weight. I know that, while my Model A (with it's SBC) certainly has the POWER to pull a decent load, it certainly does not have the weight. To each his own but, when I'm going to be pulling my car hauler (whether it's the 20' flatbed or 20' enclosed) I will use my dually cummins, 6spd before I would ever use the Avalanche. Not because the Avalanche couldn't haul them loaded, but because the one ton will do it better and safer if I find myself in a less than ideal situation. One of those "just because you can doesn't mean you should" things I guess. Regardless, it's a sad story, the kind I hate to see.
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