The Ford Barn

Standing Elk · 01-17-2018, 09:26 PM

I just replaced the king pins, including having the new bushings reamed to the correct size. Antiseized the king pins before installing. Everything is nice and tight as it should be. My question is, is it normal for the steering to be a little stiff for a little while? I still have it on the jack stands and when I turn the steering wheel it feels a little stiff not excessive but definitely more so than before the repair. Thanks Steve

Big hammer · 01-17-2018, 09:51 PM

My chassis was in storage for awhile after being restored. When I pulled it back home it was stiff and wouldn’t follow my truck. I greased all the fittings and everything was fine! :-)

redmodelt · 01-17-2018, 09:52 PM

How are the balls on your steering arms and pitman arm?

Standing Elk · 01-17-2018, 10:00 PM

Redmodelt, the ball ends look good. The spindles are where the stiffness is being generated. I am hopeful that after I drive it a little things will loosen up. I have not pumped them full of grease yet so right now they just have the antiseize in them.

SeaSlugs · 01-17-2018, 10:56 PM

and your sure the weight of the car is on the thrust bearings? they do sell shims to correct this i belive.

Grease them and see if it improves.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 01-17-2018, 11:37 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

How tight are your tie rod ends ect

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 01-18-2018, 06:36 AM

You mentioned the bushings were reamed. This is often a place where the bushings are brought to the correct size however they are not reamed exactly in the same plane which will cause binding as you mentioned. This is where a pin fitting hone with trued stones really shines as the pin can be fit to 0.0015 with a 0.0001 parallel accuracy.

100IH · 01-18-2018, 12:39 PM

Once you set it on the ground, you may encounter another source of stiffness. There are thin shims that help transfer the load to the upper bearing at its underside rather than to the bottom of the axle. The washer with the rolled over edge that covers the felt is often dragging. Most should be ground down some although they will wear in over time.

Kurt in NJ · 01-18-2018, 08:16 PM

Antisieze is not a lubrican for moving bearings, it is for things that don't move that you may want to move later ----

Marshall V. Daut · 01-18-2018, 11:26 PM

As I read the OP's problem, I was thinking improper adjustment of the kingpin bearings and shims, too. Then someone suggested that. I'd like to add, however, to test whether the bearings have been properly shimmed, there are two simple ways:
(1) If the car is still on jack stands after re-assembling the spindles and kingpins, run the outer nut back on the spindle a ways and the put a floor jack beneath the nut. Jack it up until that side of the front axle is lifted off the jack stand. This simulates the weight of the car with the tire on the ground. Try to turn the bearing with your fingers. If you can do so, there aren't enough shims on top of the bearing = the weight of the car is not taken up by the bearing. This will result in hard steering. If you cannot turn the bearing, remove one shim, re-assemble and try again. If you can now turn the bearing, that shim needs to go back in place. You can't simply rely upon the right amount of shims being present if the bearing can't be spun initially. There may be too MANY. It's like adjusting crankshaft bearings where you remove shims in a loose engine until the crank locks it up. Then replace one thin shim on either side and the crank should be free and properly adjusted. Same principle here. You want to find out what's too tight and what's too loose. Then go for in-between.
(2) If the front end is assembled and the wheel is on the ground, try turning the bearing. You will only be able to judge if there aren't enough shims. If the bearing can be turned by hand, at least one shim needs to be added, maybe more. You want to set the adjustment so that the weight of the car rides on the bearing, not the axle and spindle. Unfortunately, while checking with the front end on the ground, you can't tell if there are too many shims. That's why it's best to jack the car up and perform the test as outlined in #1 above.
Also check the other suggestions made so far, especially the tightness of the tie rod and drag link ends.
Marshall

Standing Elk · 01-19-2018, 09:28 AM

As tested I believe I have it shimmed correctly. Thanks all for the advice. After doing some further checking and greasing everything, I believe the issue is in the king pin bushing / pin fit. When I assembled the pins through the bushings I was able to twist and push them through the upper bushing, but when they started through the lower bushing I had to tap them lightly with a mallet to get them to go all the way down. Maybe that end of the reamer was a little dull, not sure. Anyway due to this, both spindles were a little stiff when rotated by hand, however not excessive. I would expect this to free up as soon as I put a few miles on the car.

Flathead · 01-19-2018, 01:26 PM

Post #9 is absolutely correct, a lot of people make this mistake. May not be the problem here but important to remember.

01-17-2018, 09:51 PM	#2
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: stiff steering ?? My chassis was in storage for awhile after being restored. When I pulled it back home it was stiff and wouldn’t follow my truck. I greased all the fittings and everything was fine! :-) __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

01-17-2018, 09:52 PM	#3
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: stiff steering ?? How are the balls on your steering arms and pitman arm? __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

01-17-2018, 10:00 PM	#4
Standing Elk Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: St. Maries, Idaho Posts: 162	Re: stiff steering ?? Redmodelt, the ball ends look good. The spindles are where the stiffness is being generated. I am hopeful that after I drive it a little things will loosen up. I have not pumped them full of grease yet so right now they just have the antiseize in them.

01-17-2018, 10:56 PM	#5
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: stiff steering ?? and your sure the weight of the car is on the thrust bearings? they do sell shims to correct this i belive. Grease them and see if it improves. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

01-17-2018, 11:37 PM	#6
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: stiff steering ?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) How tight are your tie rod ends ect

01-17-2018, 09:26 PM	#1
Standing Elk Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: St. Maries, Idaho Posts: 162	stiff steering ?? I just replaced the king pins, including having the new bushings reamed to the correct size. Antiseized the king pins before installing. Everything is nice and tight as it should be. My question is, is it normal for the steering to be a little stiff for a little while? I still have it on the jack stands and when I turn the steering wheel it feels a little stiff not excessive but definitely more so than before the repair. Thanks Steve

01-18-2018, 06:36 AM	#7
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,513	Re: stiff steering ?? You mentioned the bushings were reamed. This is often a place where the bushings are brought to the correct size however they are not reamed exactly in the same plane which will cause binding as you mentioned. This is where a pin fitting hone with trued stones really shines as the pin can be fit to 0.0015 with a 0.0001 parallel accuracy. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

01-18-2018, 12:39 PM	#8
100IH Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 970	Re: stiff steering ?? Once you set it on the ground, you may encounter another source of stiffness. There are thin shims that help transfer the load to the upper bearing at its underside rather than to the bottom of the axle. The washer with the rolled over edge that covers the felt is often dragging. Most should be ground down some although they will wear in over time.

01-18-2018, 08:16 PM	#9
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: stiff steering ?? Antisieze is not a lubrican for moving bearings, it is for things that don't move that you may want to move later ----

01-18-2018, 11:26 PM	#10
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,111	Re: stiff steering ?? As I read the OP's problem, I was thinking improper adjustment of the kingpin bearings and shims, too. Then someone suggested that. I'd like to add, however, to test whether the bearings have been properly shimmed, there are two simple ways: (1) If the car is still on jack stands after re-assembling the spindles and kingpins, run the outer nut back on the spindle a ways and the put a floor jack beneath the nut. Jack it up until that side of the front axle is lifted off the jack stand. This simulates the weight of the car with the tire on the ground. Try to turn the bearing with your fingers. If you can do so, there aren't enough shims on top of the bearing = the weight of the car is not taken up by the bearing. This will result in hard steering. If you cannot turn the bearing, remove one shim, re-assemble and try again. If you can now turn the bearing, that shim needs to go back in place. You can't simply rely upon the right amount of shims being present if the bearing can't be spun initially. There may be too MANY. It's like adjusting crankshaft bearings where you remove shims in a loose engine until the crank locks it up. Then replace one thin shim on either side and the crank should be free and properly adjusted. Same principle here. You want to find out what's too tight and what's too loose. Then go for in-between. (2) If the front end is assembled and the wheel is on the ground, try turning the bearing. You will only be able to judge if there aren't enough shims. If the bearing can be turned by hand, at least one shim needs to be added, maybe more. You want to set the adjustment so that the weight of the car rides on the bearing, not the axle and spindle. Unfortunately, while checking with the front end on the ground, you can't tell if there are too many shims. That's why it's best to jack the car up and perform the test as outlined in #1 above. Also check the other suggestions made so far, especially the tightness of the tie rod and drag link ends. Marshall

01-19-2018, 09:28 AM	#11
Standing Elk Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: St. Maries, Idaho Posts: 162	Re: stiff steering ?? As tested I believe I have it shimmed correctly. Thanks all for the advice. After doing some further checking and greasing everything, I believe the issue is in the king pin bushing / pin fit. When I assembled the pins through the bushings I was able to twist and push them through the upper bushing, but when they started through the lower bushing I had to tap them lightly with a mallet to get them to go all the way down. Maybe that end of the reamer was a little dull, not sure. Anyway due to this, both spindles were a little stiff when rotated by hand, however not excessive. I would expect this to free up as soon as I put a few miles on the car.

01-19-2018, 01:26 PM	#12
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,498	Re: stiff steering ?? Post #9 is absolutely correct, a lot of people make this mistake. May not be the problem here but important to remember.