Engine rebuild cost

[spinelll]

A buddy of mine is thinking of buying a AA truck and is curious about the price of an engine rebuild.

Assuming the existing engine block etc. is workable, what can he expect to spend on a "typical" short-block rebuild? By typical I mean babbitt not insert, standard cam, maybe a balanced crank.

Don't know if it's a factor but he lives in Northeast Jersey.

Thanks.

[Mike V. Florida]

$2000- $5000 Check with www.schwalms.com Schwalm's/Ora Landis (Babbitted Bearings)(Pennsylvania)

[John LaVoy]

Schwalms does a great engine, it is what we have in the sedan. It has about 20,000 trouble free miles.

[Aerocraft]

Here is a link to Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie, Illinois. Rich has a price list on the website. He has shipped his engines just about everywhere. I have three done by him and have been very pleased. Gar Williams

www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com

[Dennis/CT]

George King,here in Connecticut. He rebuilt mine last year and runs great.I had some issues with the block,crank and head. He used stainless valves and the one piece valve guides,new connecting rods,re- babbitt the mains and line bore,aluminum timing gears,reground my cam,balanced the flywheel and clutch plate together,shimed the clutch housing to be square to the block. He assembles the engine and runs it to break it in and paints the engine Ford green. I gave him the engine disassembled and I rebuilt my carb,oil pump,dist,water pump,starter,generator. He can do all this for you but it will cost you more.My cost was around $4,500.00. I dont have his number in front of me now,but if your interested I can get it for you. Dennis/CT

[Mike Petrosino]

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I had my engine done by J&M Machine in Southboro Ma, They did a great job and were good guys to work with.

Here is my running on a stand I used for break in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6dhlKMSzM

[Mike Petrosino]

Here is their website

http://www.jandm-machine.com/

[Logan]

Rich at antique engine rebuilding will give you the best deal around. I think its like 2100 for an inserted short block. You cant really beat that price, especially with inserts. And Rich will stand behind his work.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Logan

Rich at antique engine rebuilding will give you the best deal around. I think its like 2100 for an inserted short block. You cant really beat that price, especially with inserts. And Rich will stand behind his work.

Easy to do when you get the rods and inserts for rock bottom price, huh. Everybody else has to pay full price for their parts, makes it hard to compare.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Mike Petrosino

I had my engine done by J&M Machine in Southboro Ma, They did a great job and were good guys to work with.

Here is my running on a stand I used for break in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6dhlKMSzM

There is no vibration, or piston-Rod noise, you can tell a well balanced engine every time, sounds super good Mike.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Easy to do when you get the rods and inserts for rock bottom price, huh. Everybody else has to pay full price for their parts, makes it hard to compare.

What does that mean James...Did not sound very good to the layman??

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by msmaron

What does that mean James...Did not sound very good to the layman??

Rich is the supplier of the rods and inserts. This means he gets them without paying the profit margin involved for everyone else. Makes it easier to charge less for his product. Suppose the people you make your living from decided to sell their product in the same market, could you make any money if they sold for a small profit which is well under yours? They would make all the money and the middle man would be out. He has this right but, it makes it hard for everyone else. At least now Snyders is marketing a less expensive rod and insert. This will go a long way towards leveling the playing field.

[Kurt in NJ]

Rich took the risk in having them made in the beginning, he gives discounts when you buy in quantity, starting at 4-5 sets, I suspect a rebuilder buying 50 sets would get a better discount. His "kit" of everything is $1010 (no block, crankshaft,cam) to me means that there is a $1000 in the job for machine work, and with efficient modern production machinery set up to do 1 type of engine could have under 10 man hours in a model A shortblock.
There is a lot of competition in the low end shortblock, I would say the profit is in the Xtras --crack repair, fancy cams, larger valves, lightened flywheels, counterweighted cranks and the added value of a totally assembled sorted out complete engine.

Rich could have kept his bearings, and rods all to himself,just for his shop, not given any quanity discounts, but he will share them with anybody that wants to buy them , and a shop that buys many gets a better price than a person buying 1 ----this is better than many of the auto parts stores treat the trade.

[mkmskm]

I just finished up an engine last week, started as a $150 long block from a barn. I had it sandblasted, farmed out the machine work, painted it myself, and rebuilt the oil pump and distributor myself. I am fortunate we have a local Babbitt shop here in town so I just took the motor to them, and then as a club "garage night" we did the reassembly. I figure I have $2500 in it.

[jkeesey]

Just got an engine last week from Ora at Schwalms. Just finished its final stationary breakin run and road tested it today. Iit ran great and is fully balanced for around $3,400. And that's a long block fully painted to henrys specs. You can pick from alist of upgrades they can perform or go right back to original.

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Rich took the risk in having them made in the beginning, he gives discounts when you buy in quantity, starting at 4-5 sets, I suspect a rebuilder buying 50 sets would get a better discount. His "kit" of everything is $1010 (no block, crankshaft,cam) to me means that there is a $1000 in the job for machine work, and with efficient modern production machinery set up to do 1 type of engine could have under 10 man hours in a model A shortblock.
There is a lot of competition in the low end shortblock, I would say the profit is in the Xtras --crack repair, fancy cams, larger valves, lightened flywheels, counterweighted cranks and the added value of a totally assembled sorted out complete engine.

Rich could have kept his bearings, and rods all to himself,just for his shop, not given any quanity discounts, but he will share them with anybody that wants to buy them , and a shop that buys many gets a better price than a person buying 1 ----this is better than many of the auto parts stores treat the trade.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. It justr makes it hard to compete. BTW, I do buy most of my parts from him including inserts and rods and valve sets. Sometimes 10 sets at a time, the discount is the same 5 or 500 sets.

[eagle]

I bought a fully rebuilt shortblock at a fea market/swap meet for $175. I haven't pulled it apart yet to check it out but even a good block is worth that so was pretty happy to get it. Supposedly was done many years ago.

[Ross/Kzoo]

Originally Posted by eagle

I bought a fully rebuilt shortblock at a fea market/swap meet for $175. I haven't pulled it apart yet to check it out but even a good block is worth that so was pretty happy to get it. Supposedly was done many years ago.

What you're saying here reminds me of a term used a while back,"grabbag".

[Bruce Adams]

I am VERY pleased with my Antique Engine Rebuilder's long block, purchased with Hi compression head, touring cam, inserts, balanced crank, lightened wheel engine which was less expensive than others, and has done 3000 great miles in the past year.
See their site for prices.

It goes like crazy and met my high expectations.

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by Dennis/CT

George King,here in Connecticut. He rebuilt mine last year and runs great.I had some issues with the block,crank and head. He used stainless valves and the one piece valve guides,new connecting rods,re- babbitt the mains and line bore,aluminum timing gears,reground my cam,balanced the flywheel and clutch plate together,shimed the clutch housing to be square to the block. He assembles the engine and runs it to break it in and paints the engine Ford green. I gave him the engine disassembled and I rebuilt my carb,oil pump,dist,water pump,starter,generator. He can do all this for you but it will cost you more.My cost was around $4,500.00. I dont have his number in front of me now,but if your interested I can get it for you. Dennis/CT

OK Dennis, Thanks for warning. I have been there and after meeting George, I was scared off by his prices and primitive machine shop. I took my engine to Schwalm's Babbited Bearings in Penn. and had it rebuilt for half the price Connecticut Antique Engine Rebuilding wanted.

[1931 flamingo]

Where is George's shop located??
Paul in CT

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Paul, look up www.enginerestoration.com

Barry

[1931 flamingo]

Thanks Barry!!!
paul in CT

[JJCunningham]

Originally Posted by Aerocraft

Here is a link to Antique Engine Rebuilders in Skokie, Illinois. Rich has a price list on the website. He has shipped his engines just about everywhere. I have three done by him and have been very pleased. Gar Williams

www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com

In August, I had to replace the engine in my model A. I purchased the engine from Antique Engine Rebuilding, and they sent me a new engine, which lasted all of 200 miles before a 4-5 inch crack was revealed in the block causing radiator fluid to spray all over the street as I drove.

I was shocked to discover that the crack had been repaired with solder and then painted over!

Thankfully, it was under warranty, so I had them ship me a new engine. When it arrived, we inspected it, and found 3 more cracks in the block each with similar solder repairs, and some along sealing surfaces that would have compromised the seals.

He's willing to provide a refund if I send him both the engine blocks I have. He's already sold my old engine, so I can't get that back. This leaves me stranded without a core to exchange or rebuild. I'd steer clear.

Schwalm's is much better.

[jkcrosson]

JJ, if your original engine core was good, why didn't you have Rich rebuild your core?

[J and M Machine]

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As I mentioned on another post today: Things you should be asking the machine shop.
Rather than how much does it cost shouldn't be your decision what are you getting for your money. Basically for the person above received two lemons.
Filling cracks with lead or JB weld for that matter from a professional shop isn't professional.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by J and M Machine

As I mentioned on another post today: Things you should be asking the machine shop.
Rather than how much does it cost shouldn't be your decision what are you getting for your money. Basically for the person above received two lemons.
Filling cracks with lead or JB weld for that matter from a professional shop isn't professional.

Hey J&M Machine,
Are A/B blocks getting 'scarce' for builders of quantity engines, for such actions, i.e. - selling 'soldered 'lemon blocks' ,to be sold Must a builder tell a buyer of such repairs??

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by JJCunningham

He's willing to provide a refund if I send him both the engine blocks I have. He's already sold my old engine, so I can't get that back. This leaves me stranded without a core to exchange or rebuild. I'd steer clear.

Schwalm's is much better.

WOW two engines!

I can understand them wanting the two engines back to give you a refund but they have to supply you a block to make you whole, or the money for the block they sold.

What is their side of the story?

[JJCunningham]

Originally Posted by jkcrosson

JJ, if your original engine core was good, why didn't you have Rich rebuild your core?

In hindsight, I should have had my old core rebuilt - but I wrongly assumed that there were basic quality standards and that trading in the core for a rebuilt short block wouldn't leave me with a significantly inferior engine (or none at all). I'm really kicking myself now.

[JJCunningham]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

WOW two engines!

I can understand them wanting the two engines back to give you a refund but they have to supply you a block to make you whole, or the money for the block they sold.

What is their side of the story?

Yes, I agree that that he should have both blocks back if he's supplying me a refund, however, we haven't yet reached an agreement about how he's going to leave me with a core and/or money for a core. I'm new to engines, and repairing cracks, but I've learned a lot in the last month. As suggested above, don't look only at price; I went with a more affordable option for a rebuilder, and am now paying the price... literally! I'm out the labor costs, shipping costs, and the costs for the 2nd rebuilder. If I had sprung for the more expensive, higher-quality engine rebuilder from the beginning - one that didn't solder the blocks - I wouldn't be incurring these costs now.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by JJCunningham

.. we haven't yet reached an agreement about how he's going to leave me with a core and/or money for a core. .

I have not done this but if you were to look at rebuilder sites and see the difference between core and no core rebuilding it should give you a fair worth of a core.

[silversink]

Originally Posted by JJCunningham

Yes, I agree that that he should have both blocks back if he's supplying me a refund, however, we haven't yet reached an agreement about how he's going to leave me with a core and/or money for a core. I'm new to engines, and repairing cracks, but I've learned a lot in the last month. As suggested above, don't look only at price; I went with a more affordable option for a rebuilder, and am now paying the price... literally! I'm out the labor costs, shipping costs, and the costs for the 2nd rebuilder. If I had sprung for the more expensive, higher-quality engine rebuilder from the beginning - one that didn't solder the blocks - I wouldn't be incurring these costs now.

I would at least get a lawyer to write a letter demanding your refunds and expenses and a rebuildable(not repairable) block. don't get soft with this guy the certainly didn't have your best interests in mind while collecting your cash.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey J&M Machine,
Are A/B blocks getting 'scarce' for builders of quantity engines, for such actions, i.e. - selling 'soldered 'lemon blocks' ,to be sold Must a builder tell a buyer of such repairs??

Where we are located in the NorthEast many of the blocks we see are cracked.
However with that being said; We repair all of the blocks before we send them back to the customer not with JB weld or lead we utilize metal stitching to guarantee situations like this don't occur. Yes we show every step of the rebuilding process to the customer and have an itemized receipt of all parts and repairs,work done to the engine.
Furthermore yes this does cost more and we have a reputation of costing more but we've never had to take an engine back due to block failures or any other failures of our own or mechanical. What good is the warranty if you use it daily?

Clearly this customer is out shipping for two engines and the cost of the two engines and no good engine to use; Now what? I too would contact an attorney and get a letter of guarantee for the cost of shipping the engines back and forth total refund.!

Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.

www.jandm-machine.com

[Tom Wesenberg]

Benson..........right on!!!!

If you don't like antifreeze, then buy a Corvair!

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by jkcrosson

JJ, if your original engine core was good, why didn't you have Rich rebuild your core?

Good point ! And, was 'your' core cleaned/magd/crack and defect free. If not checked for these things, you will never know whether your block core was rebuildable. As J&M Machine says...many blocks are cracked. A lot of times to the unrepairable /impractical ..cost wise condition. Was the 'core' in that category.. without checking never know !

So, that brings us to the present where there are those who want ' a lawyer' to be involved. Ha, lawyer fees may make you wish you had spent that money on a good engine. Know the saying..good money after bad , well this could be such example.
My first (lawyer) question would be ...have YOU made a written itemized request , to the rebuilder, for money owed to you ? Request written reply..certified mail/signature ? Heck, you might be surprised what such written evidence might yield. Especially, if you mention that your next step is your lawyer

[JJCunningham]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Good point ! And, was 'your' core cleaned/magd/crack and defect free. If not checked for these things, you will never know whether your block core was rebuildable. As J&M Machine says...many blocks are cracked. A lot of times to the unrepairable /impractical ..cost wise condition. Was the 'core' in that category.. without checking never know !

So, that brings us to the present where there are those who want ' a lawyer' to be involved. Ha, lawyer fees may make you wish you had spent that money on a good engine. Know the saying..good money after bad , well this could be such example.
My first (lawyer) question would be ...have YOU made a written itemized request , to the rebuilder, for money owed to you ? Request written reply..certified mail/signature ? Heck, you might be surprised what such written evidence might yield. Especially, if you mention that your next step is your lawyer

You make a good point Hardtimes - it's impossible to say what the condition of my old block was without close inspection and cleaning. I do know it didn't have any problem-causing cracks, and it wasn't soldered together. I also know he rebuilt it, and sold it within 3 weeks, so it couldn't have been too problematic.

Regardless, it's water under the bridge now, and I'm well on my way to locating a locating a new block for my car, having learned a valuable (and expensive) lesson.

[silversink]

Originally Posted by JJCunningham

You make a good point Hardtimes - it's impossible to say what the condition of my old block was without close inspection and cleaning. I do know it didn't have any problem-causing cracks, and it wasn't soldered together. I also know he rebuilt it, and sold it within 3 weeks, so it couldn't have been too problematic.

Regardless, it's water under the bridge now, and I'm well on my way to locating a locating a new block for my car, having learned a valuable (and expensive) lesson.

and we all know who to steer clear from in the future

[ctvpa]

Originally Posted by Mike Petrosino

Here is their website

http://www.jandm-machine.com/

I agree, this shop is not too far from you. They are more than a Model A shop, they also do very high end. When I went in and saw Rolls Royce, Packard etc, I asked about my meager Model A , they replied " We will do your engine to the same level of quality".
My engine runs like a top, they sent email photos of every part of the rebuild. Their shop is amazing. They did the only running PT boat engine.
They would be my choice for you.

[Ten1nis]

Jasper Engines remanufactures (not rebuilds) Model A engines. They have an antique engine specialty area that only does vintage engines. All their work carries a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty. Worth checking out

[1931 flamingo]

Ten1nis: Enlighten me. What is the difference between "remanufactures" and a rebuilt?? Short or long blocks or both?? Their block or would they "remanufacture" mine??
Paul in CT

[billy myers]

frank ezold franks model a garage westfield mass. does all the above with a warrentee

[Mike V. Florida]

I heard that the problem has been solved, Money will be returned and an additional amount will be given for the lack of core that can be returned.

Here is what I have been told happened when I asked him for his side of the story I left out his first name on purpose;

Hi Mike
I have replaced first engine.He condemned before he even tried it. I have offered to refund his original cost & shipping and either replacement core or $300.00 short block core charge. A standard in business today is customer returns product. The business issue's refund. I would like to get product back before refund is issued.
This was my last e-mail to him

On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Richard Falluca <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi J*****
I understand you do not want to try second engine.
I have only refunded money for three engines in my 35 plus years. I am here to work with you.
First engines must be returned to us. Returning product before getting refund is a standard any business. There is no practice of getting refund then returning product. I have offered to pay shipping to and from you. I also stated I will not pay additional services. Additional services are not the norm in business. I will assist you with BOL and arrange at your convenience for pick up. The first engine can be set on and affixed to top of crate for you convenience. After I receive engines with gasket set. I will send refund. I understand there is a problem with first engine the second engine should be returned as sent in prime condition as sent. I also will refund the original crating charge and not charge for crating on second engine. Crating charges are not refundable as stated in http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/shipping.htm
I have enclosed a copy of warranty as I stated the liability is of engine only. I am willing to refund our core charge of $300.00 this is our short block core charge.
Thanks
Rich

Mike feel free to post. I do not post on FORDBARN
Thanks VERY MUCH
Rich

[JJCunningham]

Mike V. Florida, it is true that I didn't spend $600 installing an engine with soldered cracks. Would you? Also, since the details of our agreement is out, would you agree to the above settlement knowing that the whole debacle cost you more than $1000 in labor charges that you won't get refunded?

I'm not denying that he fulfilled his warranty. I'm saying you have an engine rebuilder who is sending out soldered blocks a repair technique that is dubious at best according to the 6 experts I've asked to look at these repairs. (We've since discovered 2 more soldered cracks, one in the valve chamber which has also failed).

There comes a time to cut bait and not throw good money after bad. I took the advice of all the mechanics and tech experts I consulted (again, 6 of them, each with 30-45 years of experience, including one that even Rich consults with) and did not pay to install an engine with soldered cracks.

Judge for yourself from the photos, would you pay to install either of these engines?

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/album.php?albumid=2866

[Ten1nis]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Ten1nis: Enlighten me. What is the difference between "remanufactures" and a rebuilt?? Short or long blocks or both?? Their block or would they "remanufacture" mine??
Paul in CT

This is abroad subject, but generally speaking, a rebuilt engine is cleaned, inspected and worn or broken parts are replaced. Serviceable parts are reused within manufactures acceptable wear tolerances. Remanufactured engines are made as close to new as possible. Most wearable parts are automatically replaced. All core material is closely inspected and checked against original equipment specifications for correct dimensional tolerances. Testing is performed to manufacturer specifications and original production standards. Jasper engines are remanufactured are built to original specifications that are equal to or more exact than those used by Ford during production. All engines are thoroughly tested.

Only long blocks provided by the customer.

Worth a look.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by Ten1nis

This is abroad subject, but generally speaking, a rebuilt engine is cleaned, inspected and worn or broken parts are replaced. Serviceable parts are reused within manufactures acceptable wear tolerances. Remanufactured engines are made as close to new as possible. Most wearable parts are automatically replaced. All core material is closely inspected and checked against original equipment specifications for correct dimensional tolerances. Testing is performed to manufacturer specifications and original production standards. Jasper engines are remanufactured are built to original specifications that are equal to or more exact than those used by Ford during production. All engines are thoroughly tested.

Only long blocks provided by the customer.

Worth a look.

I did a search on Jasper after i had a restoration house say they were sending a 40 Cadillac to them. Well 6 weeks into it and no response of how the engine work is.
I hadn't heard that Jasper did antique engines other than 350 Chevy and Fords.
I googled them and they are on "Ripoff report" you have to be really poor customer service to reach that level.

Clearly to the restoration house I mentioned above it's all about the money, how much they can skim off the engine work for their profit.
Most aren't interested in doing a good job as they get the labor again when the engine comes back. It will.

[sethkestenbaum]

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Lenny,
I've had contact with J&M several times. The the owner has an impressive shop and extensive knowledge. I toured his shop in Mass last winter (a video is on my blog) and have kept in touch with him. I'm happy to make an introduction if you like.
Seth

[Ray64]

Just got my engine did by Duane Roach in OHIO for $2800 long block build and it runs fantastic

[Mike V. Florida]

While the rebuilder offered to settle this there is still time and materials associated with the work done. What if he paid to have the engine installed and removed?

As a matter of fact how much time and how much do you think one should pay a professional for having an engine removed, installed, and removed again?

[Cooperw1]

I have a 1930 coupe with a 1931 engine in need of rebuild. While I'm in west central Florida, I visit my Dad in Hendersonville, NC regularly and it appears that Dreamwerks is close by. Is it worth dropping the engine off in person to save the shipping?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Cooperw1

I have a 1930 coupe with a 1931 engine in need of rebuild. While I'm in west central Florida, I visit my Dad in Hendersonville, NC regularly and it appears that Dreamwerks is close by. Is it worth dropping the engine off in person to save the shipping?

For sure it would be worth it, plus you'll save having to crate it and find the shipper.

[BlueSunoco]

Yes and it won't get lost and damaged I'd definitely take it myself Coop PLUS that would give you an excuse to see Jim's shop and what is going on there!!

[Cooperw1]

That sounds like a plan. Thanks to both of you. A little personal endorsement goes a long way.

Once I get all the fluids out, I should be able to lay the engine down on it's side for the journey, yes? That's what I remembered doing when I bought a rebuilt engine from a guy in West Virginia when I was living in Tidewater Virginia. Laid it down in the back of a VW Rabbit diesel pick-up and spent a whole lot of time in the truck climbing lanes getting home.
-Coop

[Tom Wesenberg]

Lay it on an old tire so you don't damage the oil fill pipe, or the oil return pipe.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Cooperw1

I have a 1930 coupe with a 1931 engine in need of rebuild. While I'm in west central Florida, I visit my Dad in Hendersonville, NC regularly and it appears that Dreamwerks is close by. Is it worth dropping the engine off in person to save the shipping?

'Mike' will likely be by here directly (he was workin' on an old Model-T this morning tryin' to get it to drive right.

Personally I would call him and see what your options are. He may have a core to exchange with you so that you drop off your engine and pick-up a rebuilt one at the same time. The other thing I would consider is shipping it to him and then pick it up completed in person if you are limited on time. I know from my own experiences, it costs around $150 to have truck freight ship an engine. You probably can visit your Pop for less expenses than shipping.

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Cooperw1

I have a 1930 coupe with a 1931 engine in need of rebuild. While I'm in west central Florida, I visit my Dad in Hendersonville, NC regularly and it appears that Dreamwerks is close by. Is it worth dropping the engine off in person to save the shipping?

I don't have one of james [ dreamworks] engines but I know some guys that have his engine. I have never herd 1 bad thing about this builder , only good. I think you would be very pleased with his work .. Have fun modelAtony tony white Lafayette, LA