Exhaust Manifold to Tailpipe gasket

[DaWizard]

Show of hands.

How many of you out there in "A" land have had a hard time lining up and holding that skinny copper and asbestos gasket while attempting to get the clamp around all three parts and slip the nut on the bolt of the exhaust manifold to tailpipe clamp?

Well, sitting here in the garage listening to the rain dump on the roof, I think I have a solution to this problem.

The "indoor folk" have been doing the baking of sweet goods and whatnot and have left me to remove the detritus and while doing this I have come across what I feel to be the perfect solution.

In picture one, we see the antagonizer of this project.

Picture two shows the can used. Now you may use whatever you have laying around that is close to the size needed unless you have a tubing maker thingamajig.

Picture three shows cleaned and sliced.

Picture four shows the gasket around the can for size and fitment.

Picture five shows the finished welding of the can.

Now since I have a resistance solder machine this was a piece of cake for me since it localizes the soldering of the part, but I suspect that anyone owning a small modeling torch or a fine tip for your O/A torch could do this as well. The joint shouldn't really need to be soldered, but to keep the can diameter the same from end to end I would think it should be fastened in some fashion, perhaps a pop rivet on each end would do the trick.

Now since it is still raining outside and I am a dry weather mechanic, I won't be fitting or installing this today, but if you like what I have done so far, maybe I will take pictures of how it fits at installation.

Since I am not totally sure how far the can will fit into reach part I have held off soldering the gasket onto the can, but I am thinking that because I want a real good seal, and the copper does touch the can I may just get a test fit for can distance and solder the gasket to the can after pre-fitting.

[Brian T]

Before I installed my Aries I just added a smear of muffler cement to my old header pipe and drove of into the sunset, worked for me.

[SeaSlugs]

i didnt use any gasket as per stock and it sealed right up... i was able to hold it with one hand and put the clamp together with the other. Floor jack holding it up helps.

It also really helps to use a small hammer to tap the clamp tighter before tightening the bolts - it really helps it pinch the joint together without relying and possibly cracking the cast exhaust clamp.

[Synchro909]

Never seen a gasket there!!! I use a smear of maniseal - job done.

[Mitch//pa]

A gasket is not needed

[Tom Endy]

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Bratton's sell a product called muffler cement, part number 7050. It is a paste that comes in a tube. What I do is put a healthy bead of it in the "V" of both pieces of the clamp. When it dries if forms a seal. I do not use any gaskets or inside pipes. The amount that squeezes out is easily cleaned off. When time comes to remove the clamp it comes loose with the tap of a hammer. The dried sealer is easily cleaned off with a wire wheel or brush.

Tom Endy

[MAG]

X2 on #5 Gasket not needed.

[JOHN CT]

I agree with everyone that doesn't use a copper gasket just use a beed of muffler cement
It gives you a lot better seal


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[Gary WA]

why use anything! Not Needed! as per Henry!! and Walter!

[Ruth]

I never knew there was a gasket for there.

[Smooth_One]

I just did mine this weekend. Permatex copper gasket sealant with some new nuts and bolts and worked just fine!

[ericr]

I know everyone talks helpfully about using a floor jack underneath it, but that has never worked really well for me. The tube between muffler and manifold is situated at an angle and not really perpendicular to a horizontal plane.

[DaWizard]

Hey thanks for all your opinions.

Ya know, I thought you didn't need any input from me as it seems you all know it all, and all the responses just confirmed it.

It was Real, and Fun, just not real fun.

[iverson]

thanks for sharing your idea its always good to see other ways of doing something! I never knew about the copper gasket!

[SeaSlugs]

Hmm after having to make a emergency exhaust pipe fix on my s10 with a cut up soup can and bailing wire that repair only lasted a year before the can turned to rust chunks/dust... I would not put a can inside to clog up the muffler/rattle around...

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Hey thanks for all your opinions.

Ya know, I thought you didn't need any input from me as it seems you all know it all, and all the responses just confirmed it.

It was Real, and Fun, just not real fun.

Well this is a Forum isn't it?

[forever4]

Originally Posted by Ruth

I never knew there was a gasket for there.

There was not.
Adding a gasket just fouls up the fit for the muffler clamp.

The gasket goes in the category of repro fixes to problems that don't exist -- until you add it. Like distributor wireless plates!

[aermotor]

ericr, I put a 6" piece of 2"X 6" with a couple 1" X 's about 2" apart tacked to the top of the 2 X 6 and put this on top of the floor jack. It rocked enough to take care of the angle and kept the pipe from moving.

John

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by ericr

I know everyone talks helpfully about using a floor jack underneath it, but that has never worked really well for me. The tube between muffler and manifold is situated at an angle and not really perpendicular to a horizontal plane.

I typically have used a small scissor jack (gleaned from a long ago Honda), and place it under the forward most edge of the muffler itself (not the pipe). The scissor jack offers a little more precise lift than does the typical floor jack. I always put a piece of lumber between the jack and the muffler, just to protect things a bit.

[C26Pinelake]

What detritus do you speak of or was this a bad choice of words ! Wayne

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Hey thanks for all your opinions.

Ya know, I thought you didn't need any input from me as it seems you all know it all, and all the responses just confirmed it.

It was Real, and Fun, just not real fun.

Seems like you made a simple job difficult for no good reason. Wayne

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Originally Posted by DaWizard

Hey thanks for all your opinions.

Ya know, I thought you didn't need any input from me as it seems you all know it all, and all the responses just confirmed it.

It was Real, and Fun, just not real fun.

If your manifold and your exhaust pipe is NOS and perfect and the clamp is put on right side up then it should not leak and you won't need a gasket. A bead of gook is a good idea though. A lot of people don't have trouble with exhaust leaks.
But if you are like a lot of us with worn or damaged manifold surfaces and repro exhaust pipes that are not perfect then you may have leaks. That is me.

I think your idea of using a tin can has a couple of drawbacks. As mentioned already, rust and thickness of the metal will become a problem very quickly. Also, the manifold and pipe have different inside diameters so if you weld the seams together ahead of time the sleeve will not fit snugly. I think you will be making extra problems for yourself.

My method that worked well was to get an exhaust pipe reducing adapter that fit snugly down into the header pipe and also up into the manifold. I took a length of small diameter glass fiber wood stove door gasket, and tied it into a loop that would fit snugly over the pipe adapter. I trimmed the upper section of the adapter so that only about 1/2" extended up into the manifold. Then all that was left to do was to slide the header pipe in place and clamp it tight. The gasket totally sealed off any leakage. Problem solved.

[Brentwood Bob]

Great diagram and pictures.
There are thread discussions on correct assembly and placement of the clamp.
I get more out of the discussions than I do from the negative feed back.
And I have found that a small ball pean hammer helps to tap the properly assembled clamp so it seats. And i try to use a floor jack to hold the muffler in place. Frees up my hands so I can fumble with the clamp bolts. The replacement mufflers I find at the swap have needed reworking the flange with said ball pean hammer to get a better fit.
Bob

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by Ruth

I never knew there was a gasket for there.

You have to remember he does not have a normal Model A? He has Honda and other parts built in. Wayne

[Cool Hand Lurker]

Here is also a drawing of the clamp proper alignment. There are two different diameters, the pipe and the manifold. Both halves of the clamp must be aligned so that the larger diameter is on the top. If you get it wrong it won't clamp anything well.

[Smooth_One]

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Originally Posted by iverson

thanks for sharing your idea its always good to see other ways of doing something! I never knew about the copper gasket!

[ericr]

Originally Posted by forever4

There was not.
Adding a gasket just fouls up the fit for the muffler clamp.

The gasket goes in the category of repro fixes to problems that don't exist -- until you add it. Like distributor wireless plates!

do you think this fix emerged before we had repro mufflers with the correct flange on them? Also did the wireless plate emerge before we had the knowledge or availability of the correct stranded wire?


I have been wondering what people think of the "improved" repro muffler clamp that is threaded on the engine side, obviating the need for nuts and supposedly making for an easier installation.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by ericr

do you think this fix emerged before we had repro mufflers with the correct flange on them? Also did the wireless plate emerge before we had the knowledge or availability of the correct stranded wire?


I have been wondering what people think of the "improved" repro muffler clamp that is threaded on the engine side, obviating the need for nuts and supposedly making for an easier installation.

My guess is your right on the correct flange.

Wireless plate im sure is one of those gimmick fixes. After someone gets stumped as to random misfires or no starts then discovers its a simple wire they probably thought "well i dont want that to happen again" thus eliminating the wire. That wire has been around for a very long time but like now its not something the average hardware store had - people probably tried the general hardware store wire to find it broke or too stiff in short time.

We had to use the same high flex bunch of multistrant wire for our voltage sense wire for our welding robots, if you used the normal THHN stuff it would last about a month or two then break. of course hardly ever broke fully so certian welds/angles it would spaz out and burn hot as hell as it thought the voltage on the weld wire was zero.

Im kind of indifferent on the muffler clamp - the origonal style has the merrits that you can get them back apart usually or at the least you can cut just the bolts off and reuse the clamp. now the new style would be much much easier to install im afraid it will be the wrath of modern manifold bolts that love to rust and snap off right at the manifold.

[forever4]

Originally Posted by ericr

do you think this fix emerged before we had repro mufflers with the correct flange on them? Also did the wireless plate emerge before we had the knowledge or availability of the correct stranded wire?


I have been wondering what people think of the "improved" repro muffler clamp that is threaded on the engine side, obviating the need for nuts and supposedly making for an easier installation.

Eric,
I was not aware that the muffler clamp has been reinvented.
Originals have always worked fine for me.

I personally don't imagine the one you describe would be any better, but I guess we will hear about it in due course.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

Hmm after having to make a emergency exhaust pipe fix on my s10 with a cut up soup can and bailing wire that repair only lasted a year before the can turned to rust chunks/dust... I would not put a can inside to clog up the muffler/rattle around...

Yep that thin tin can will break down / melt in no time and lodge or hang out in the baffles

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by ericr

I have been wondering what people think of the "improved" repro muffler clamp that is threaded on the engine side, obviating the need for nuts and supposedly making for an easier installation.

I have been using that type of clamp for years. Fitting ANY clamp there is a PITA, what with the clutch pedal being so close. The ones threaded on one side are a little less painful ITA.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I have been using that type of clamp for years. Fitting ANY clamp there is a PITA, what with the clutch pedal being so close. The ones threaded on one side are a little less painful ITA.

well, yes, with right-hand drive I can see that the area there would be very busy for you guys.

[bnchief]

I used the metal insert Mitch suggested works great no leaks no sealer no gasket.

[wwirz]

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Lurker

Here is also a drawing of the clamp proper alignment. There are two different diameters, the pipe and the manifold. Both halves of the clamp must be aligned so that the larger diameter is on the top. If you get it wrong it won't clamp anything well.

This diagram of how the clamp installs correctly will solve many problems. Thanks for postin

[aermotor]

No one mentioned this, but make sure the rear tail pipe hanger is loose and allows the whole works to slide back and forth and rotate. I remove it and suspend the tail pipe with wire until after the clamp is installed, all with a floor jack at the front of the muffler.

John

[rocket1]

I bought the gasket and chucked it into the junk box,just a waste of money!

[sofield]

Nobody has mentioned to loosen the tail pipe bracket at the rear to help with the alignment. This allows for a forward and rotational movement of the pipe.