***Need help on BRAKES - 53 Merc Monterey***

[53MERC]

I'm hoping someone can answer a few questions I have on brake issues with my 53 Mercury Monterey.
It is currently up on the lift at a local shop.
I purchased the car a few months back, and the previous owner had a different shop do the following back in 2010, but the car hasn't been driver much since.
*2 Front and 2 Rear wheel cylinders
*2 Front brake hoses
*New grease seals (front drums)

My two issues are:

1) The car pulls hard to the RIGHT when the brakes are applied.
The mechanic says the wheel cylinder on the RIGHT opens a lot quicker than the left one. He has bled the brakes but it still does it.
Any ideas?

2) He says both of the brake hoses that the previous mechanic put on years ago are rubbing the spindles on both sides. He wasnt sure if the correct hoses were put on but is wondering if the hose connectors on the original hoses had angled connects that would avoid hitting the spindles, or were the connectors originally straight like the ones in the picture?
Any idea?
Anyone have a photo I could show him?
Any idea who seels the correct hoses?

I'm trying to get my car back from the shop asap before we head to Colorado to see our daughter who is due with their first baby.
Yes, I will be a grandpa.

Thanks for any info.

[Bob C]

The Mercury parts book shows the front hoses 12 11/32" over all length.
Part # MA-2079-A

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The Mercury parts book shows the front hoses 12 11/32" over all length.
Part # MA-2079-A

Thanks Bob,
I just let the mechanic know.

[53MERC]

So I called Chris at Shoebox and he said:
1) The cars originally came with wheel cylinders that had a bit of an angle on them.
2) The hoses had straight connectors, no angled ends.
3) He recommended grinding a little bit off the spindles to get a little more clearance.
4) As far as the pulling to one side, he recommended blowing out the junction box with an air hose to clear out any debris. He said that is a common issue on cars that sat for awhile.

"Thanks Chris"

Fingers crossed.

[Mart]

If you look at your picture, the hose at the chassis bracket is slightly rearward pointing.

I think if you undo the fitting at the hose, re-seat the hose in the frame bracket, make sure it is clipped properly in place and then re-do the hose connection, you shouls be able to make it clear. It is possible to sort of encourage the hose to go one way or the other by preloading a gentle twist in it one way or the other. I stress gentle, and it must only be very slight.

It might be worth fitting new cylinders. they're dirt cheap.

It might be that if you do all the fitting with the hoses in a stress free state with the wheels in the straight ahead position, they will not rub.

It just needs carefully looking at.

Trying to convey this all to "my mechanic" might be the sticking point.

Mart.

[Merc Cruzer]

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Here is a the same shot on mine (also a 53' Merc).

I agree with Mart, rather than play with them just get two new wheel cylinders and have him install them. Let me know if you need additional pictures.

[FlatheadTed]

You can have a collapsed hose inside allowing the opposite side to activate early ,Ted

[paul2748]

When the car pulls to one side, it many cases it the other side that has a problem as that side is not working properly.


Possible causes:


Brake line on left bad internally, blocking fluid flow
Bad cylinder left side(maybe hanging uo
Bad shoes left side - may be soaked with fluid.

[53MERC]

I greatly appreciate all of the info and photos guys. I will be bringing my laptop to the mechanic on Monday. Last I spoke to him he was going to try to blow out the junction box and try some new hoses.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks so much.

[rich b]

Maybe it's just me; but brakes pulling to one side would certainly require removing all four of the drums to see the true condition of the components.

10 year old new parts are not new anymore; more so on a vehicle with little use.

Compare the crimps on the hoses in the OP picture with the ones posted by Merc Cruzer; that probably accounts for the interference with the spindle.

Hopefully your mechanic is familiar with drum brakes.

[RalphG]

Guess I was lucky that my 52 had none of those problems after sitting 30+ years. I did replace all the wheel cylinders and front brake hoses though as they were needing it. If I remember right all the new parts came from Rock Auto and worked fine.

[Merc Cruzer]

When I first bought my car it pulled to the right too!

[rotorwrench]

Drum condition can affect braking as well. I've seen drums cut well beyond .060" normal limits. Shoes sometimes need to be arced to get a good fit in the drums. Aftermarket parts can be problematic too. It pays to find out as much as you can about the available replacement parts to hopefully get ones with the best possible fit.

When the hydraulic system is serviceable and each of the four drums are properly adjusted with centering and shoe position, it should have even braking to a complete stop. Drums aren't like disks that we are all so used to these days but they will generally still be able to perform an emergency stop when you need them to.

[V8 Bob]

The first thing your "mechanic" should have done is pull the front drums and find out what the problem is rather than guessing about hoses, wheel cylinders. etc. Contaminated or incorrect Bendix shoe assembly (long lining leading instead of trailing) along with stuck wheel cylinders will cause a pull. The crappy hose installation would cause me to carefully inspect all the brakes and components.



Not sure what good "blowing out the junction box" can do as the master cylinder can generate many times more pressure than an air compressor.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

The first thing your "mechanic" should have done is pull the front drums and find out what the problem is.
Not sure what good "blowing out the junction box" can do as the master cylinder can generate many times more pressure than an air compressor.

Them folks ain't "MECHANICS". Them folks is bullshit-slingin', butt-scratchin' parts changers! DD

[jimvette59]

Did you change the brake shoes when the wheel cylinder was change ?

[54vicky]

Bob and Coop are absolutely right about the blow job there is an old saying bullshyt baffles brains.in this case I think it would also mean it baffles brakes.get the right cylinders I believe Lincoln also had the angled ones.maybe order from rock auto as Ralph suggested.I have a feeling that a wheel cylinder is seized good luck

[53MERC]

Thanks for the recommendations and photos. This shop does work on a lot of classic cars, that's why I chose them. All 5 star reviews too. The mechanic did have the front drums off, but not the back, so I will run that by him to check all four corners.
When I spoke to him late Friday before closing, he was going to put on a different set of hoses. Good catch on the crimps Rich B.
I will also mention trying new wheel cylinders.
They aren't open until Tuesday.

I can't thank you guys enough.

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by jimvette59

Did you change the brake shoes when the wheel cylinder was change ?

Hi Jim,
I bought the car about a month ago. The previous owner had it for 20 years and had some repairs done by a local shop, including brakes, carb rebuild, radiator repair, windshield wiper repair, etc.
I have the receipts from that shop. Every one of those repairs that was done by that shop I've had to have redone.
My shop has put in a new gas tank (the old one was full of loose rust scale), put in the original radiator that I had repaired, carb kit, motor mounts, and now working on the brakes. I did not see new brake shoes on the receipt though.
I will have those checked too.
Thanks for the post.

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by 54vicky

Bob and Coop are absolutely right about the blow job there is an old saying bullshyt baffles brains.in this case I think it would also mean it baffles brakes.get the right cylinders I believe Lincoln also had the angled ones.maybe order from rock auto as Ralph suggested.I have a feeling that a wheel cylinder is seized good luck

So I see these on the Lincoln/Mercury site.
Any idea if these are compatible????

https://www.lincolnoldparts.com/brak...692a1114f29bd6

https://www.lincolnoldparts.com/brak...692a1114f29bd6

[Merc Cruzer]

O'Reilly's has them for $12.99 - BrakeBest Wheel Cylinder

https://www.oreillyauto.com/search/1...wheel+cylinder

[rotorwrench]

FoMoCo used the cylinder diameter to regulate the operating force between front and rear brakes since proportioning valves didn't exist yet. The fronts are larger than the rears in piston diameter. The original FoMoCo parts books generally list the piston diameter.

Mercury cars had heavier duty brake set ups than Fords as a general rule but I'm not certain of that on the later 52/53 cars since they aren't all that much different in weight from the Ford cars. My 51 Mercs are definitely heavier than the 51 Ford shoe box types.

I purchased from Rock Auto the last time I ordered brake parts. I usually went for Wagner brand back then but the foreign stuff all looks the same these days. Rock Auto carries the name brands so that folks can have a choice if there is a difference. That's hard to say though.

[53MERC]

Thanks for the info.
I see a lot of you are recommending Rockauto.
I have never used them.
What kind of turn time do they have on parts?
A few days? Week?

[tubman]

In my experience, they ship the same or next day. I must be lucky, because I've never had a bad experience with them.

Up to a couple of years ago, they had year-end clearance sales, and I was able to stock up on a bunch of stuff for my '51. Brake cylinders, points (and other ignition parts), gaskets, bendix springs, etc at incredibly cheap prices. Most of the stuff was overstock from some of the companies they acquired and were domestically produced. I like 'em!

[JSeery]

The Rock Auto stuff I have ordered was very low priced and old stock USA parts. I have always been happy with their service.

[rotorwrench]

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I've had problems with them on one off beat part. It was for front wheel drive half shafts and they were miss matched in the boxes. I was having problem getting them locally so I ordered from them but I will never order half shafts for a 20 year old car from them again. They must have purchased some old inventory to sell and it just happened to be crap. They quickly issued me a return shipping decal and shipped the next part they had in line which was also miss marked. At least I got one good one out of the deal.

My experience with them has been very good until that incident. If they would have had just the boots in stock, I would have just purchased them. I ended up getting boots from flea-pay so my problem was solved. I pitched the wrong half shaft. It's not worth going round and round. I just wanted the car fixed ASAP and that slowed that way down. The price of the half shaft was less than the boots if you can believe that.

I've purchased a lot of brake parts from them and have never had a problem.

[53MERC]

Awesome. Thanks for the info on Rock Auto. I will have to try them out.
Not sure I can this time because my car is up on the rack right now. Hopefully they can source the parts I need tomorrow and get me going.
I definitely want the drums checked, shoes checked/changed, and wheel cylinders replaced.
Thanks All.

[53MERC]

Well, the drums were turned. Brake hoses, wheel cylinders, and shoes have been replaced. I am good to go! Picking the Merc up tomorrow.

Thanks for everyones help.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by 53MERC

Well, the drums were turned. Brake hoses, wheel cylinders, and shoes have been replaced. I am good to go! Picking the Merc up tomorrow.

Thanks for everyones help.

Yeah, that all sounds good. But HOW does it drive/stop? DD

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Yeah, that all sounds good. But HOW does it drive/stop? DD

Thanks for asking. I made the maiden voyage home from the shop today, and it performed great! I had never driven the car before today. When I bought it about a month ago, I had it towed right to the shop.
They put in a new gas tank and sening unit, my original repaired radiator, motor mounts, carb kit, and new brakes. Turned the drums, new shoes, new wheel cylinders, new brake hoses.

The car runs great, sounds great with a nice low rumble, stops great AND straight. No issues thank God.
All the lights, signals, and horn work fine. The wipers do not work, so thats on the to-do list.
Also, need to replace the front floor pan. I don't plan on putting a lot of money into this car. Just want to enjoy driving it. I love the worn patina look on the car.
The mechanic said he had so many people looking at the Merc when it was in the shop. Good to hear.

Thanks again Gang!

[tomcarman]

I've been following this thread and I'm pleased to hear of your results. Great looking car and in my opinion keeping its assumed original patina is the best decision.

[RalphG]

Yes, Rock Auto has been a good source of parts for me. Glad to hear your Merc drives (and stops) as good as it looks. Hoping to find time to take mine out for a spin once things slow down a little here.

[eddie48]

Many years ago when I worked in a front-end shop, we would occasionally have a problem with a new brake job pulling right or left. What we would do is to swap the parts in the left side with the right side parts, one part at a time until we found the part causing the pull. Could be a cylinder, hose or even a spring.

[54vicky]

Originally Posted by eddie48

Many years ago when I worked in a front-end shop, we would occasionally have a problem with a new brake job pulling right or left. What we would do is to swap the parts in the left side with the right side parts, one part at a time until we found the part causing the pull. Could be a cylinder, hose or even a spring.

the problem with that approach is that the cylinders are R+L specific

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

I've been following this thread and I'm pleased to hear of your results. Great looking car and in my opinion keeping its assumed original patina is the best decision.

Thank you. It will be garaged and not driven a lot, so I don't think I will need to spray it with anything to preserve the patina.
I love how it looks. That's the reason I fell in love with it.

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by RalphG

Yes, Rock Auto has been a good source of parts for me. Glad to hear your Merc drives (and stops) as good as it looks. Hoping to find time to take mine out for a spin once things slow down a little here.

Thanks Ralph. I'm looking forward to another video from you. Bring that rooster with you this time. Great horn. LOL.

You and Merc Cruzer (Roy) have been a great help.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by 53MERC

Thanks for asking. I made the maiden voyage home from the shop today, and it performed great! I had never driven the car before today. When I bought it about a month ago, I had it towed right to the shop.
They put in a new gas tank and sening unit, my original repaired radiator, motor mounts, carb kit, and new brakes. Turned the drums, new shoes, new wheel cylinders, new brake hoses.

The car runs great, sounds great with a nice low rumble, stops great AND straight. No issues thank God.
All the lights, signals, and horn work fine. The wipers do not work, so thats on the to-do list.
Also, need to replace the front floor pan. I don't plan on putting a lot of money into this car. Just want to enjoy driving it. I love the worn patina look on the car.
The mechanic said he had so many people looking at the Merc when it was in the shop. Good to hear.

Thanks again Gang!

Congrats, the first drive is always the most exciting. Glad to hear the work done on the car was all successful. Now drive it and enjoy it.

"Also, need to replace the front floor pan." I just watched the video and he says the 52-54 Ford floor pan fits the Merc.

http://emsautomotive.com/index.php?r...ory&path=18_66

[tubman]

You don't by any chance, have the stock wheels, tires, and hubcaps, do you?

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by tubman

You don't by any chance, have the stock wheels, tires, and hubcaps, do you?

I sure do. I have the original rims (4 + spare) mounted with bias ply tires, and the hubcaps. They are all in great condition too.

[RalphG]

Originally Posted by 53MERC

I sure do. I have the original rims (4 + spare) mounted with bias ply tires, and the hubcaps. They are all in great condition too.

Very nice classic tires you have there. I only have one surviving original full wheel cover. They tend to fall off so I've hung the survivor on the wall and am using some "dog dish" caps from a Meteor.

[tomcarman]

It would be interesting if you put an original wheel and tire on either the front or the rear, no preference and took a side view photo to compare the look. I am unfamiliar with stock Mercs. I do recall when I was very young my Aunt had a Merc but I believe it was around a '55 thru 57 ish. I remember the car and riding in it. I was probably around 7 years old. I also remember it often times wouldn't start and my Aunt, to put it politely, was not pleasant company. Your post, like others has brought back long forgotten memories, very pleasent.

[RalphG]

Just remembered I did a video of one of the new front hoses I installed on the Merc back in 2017.
https://youtu.be/nzWm2eii6w0

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

It would be interesting if you put an original wheel and tire on either the front or the rear, no preference and took a side view photo to compare the look. I am unfamiliar with stock Mercs. I do recall when I was very young my Aunt had a Merc but I believe it was around a '55 thru 57 ish. I remember the car and riding in it. I was probably around 7 years old. I also remember it often times wouldn't start and my Aunt, to put it politely, was not pleasant company. Your post, like others has brought back long forgotten memories, very pleasent.

Your aunt sounds a lot like me when I get upset. Just ask my wife and kids. LOL.
I will be sure to take a few pictures if I ever put the original rims and hubcaps on. I had thought about putting them back on, but I wasnt sure how old those tires were? They have great tread on them though.

[53MERC]

Originally Posted by RalphG

Just remembered I did a video of one of the new front hoses I installed on the Merc back in 2017.
https://youtu.be/nzWm2eii6w0

Thanks Ralph. I just watched your video. It sounds like changing the back tires is a real pain in the butt. I have the original fender skirts too, but I think I will leave them off.