Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-23-2017, 11:47 AM   #1
GASSERBOB
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Default noisy Mitchell transmission.

Hi there. Has anyone else out there have a noisy Mitchell transmission? I only have a 50 miles on it and the new engine. Its very noisy in all three gears. Just wondering. I know they say about the straight cut gears will make it noisier then beveled. I know that my original transmission was way quieter. I will have to call them up . I guess. Thank you for your time.
GASSERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 01:38 PM   #2
mike657894
Senior Member
 
mike657894's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bay City Michigan
Posts: 1,049
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

if it wasn't making the noise at 0 miles it should not be making noise at 50
mike657894 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 07-23-2017, 01:48 PM   #3
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Hi Bob,

Even though this may sound so profoundly parochial, one very experienced Model A guy in California was humble enough to describe to me in a PM about his buying a newly restored Model A, getting in it, trying to drive it on a long trip back to home, until he most sadly heard a minor growl.

Sadly both seller and buying assumed the differential had oil.
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 02:09 PM   #4
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

My Mitchell tranny is very quiet, though it will jump out of all three gears on compression if I don't hold it in gear. Not a problem, I just hold the shifter if descending a steep hill. Maybe when it gets more miles on it it will quit doing that. Who knows? The A tranny never failed to hold on down grades, no matter how steep. Make sure it has the recommended oil in it, not the 600W. (Though that shouldn't make it noisy if it is full. (One Qt,as I recall)
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 05:11 PM   #5
wmws
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Coatesville, Pa
Posts: 719
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

My Mitchell over drive unit was shipped with NO oil in it. Make sure you transmission has oil in it.
wmws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 09:45 PM   #6
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 5,647
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
If it has oil in it, CALL MITCHELL'S. They are easy to get a hold of. They should be your FIRST choice of who to talk to.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2017, 09:46 PM   #7
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

I picked up my tranny at Mitchell's and it had no oil in it. They are packed with the tower off and a clear plate over the tranny. I doubt anyone would miss the lack of oil......... but could do I guess. Read the labels.
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2017, 12:17 AM   #8
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,749
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Whenever I rebuild a Model A rear axle assembly for anyone, before it leaves the shop it has a tag on it that says "No Oil In The Banjo: I advise the owner to leave the tag in place until he puts oil in it.

I don't believe gearboxes in any industry, aircraft, industrial, and automotive are shipped with oil in them. Working in the aircraft industry it was common to see tags attached to gear boxes advising there was no oil in them.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2017, 11:22 AM   #9
CarlG
Senior Member
 
CarlG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 8,788
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

That's my take: no oil.
__________________
Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owner's Club
CarlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2017, 07:30 PM   #10
GASSERBOB
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

There's 2 quarts 90 weight gear oil in it. I'll call them up . I just thought one of you guys might have the same problem at one time. Thanks. Bob...................
GASSERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2017, 08:37 PM   #11
SteveB31
Senior Member
 
SteveB31's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Englewood, Colorado
Posts: 1,353
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

2 quarts is way too much
SteveB31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 06:33 AM   #12
emf
Senior Member
 
emf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hudson, NY
Posts: 405
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GASSERBOB View Post
There's 2 quarts 90 weight gear oil in it. I'll call them up . I just thought one of you guys might have the same problem at one time. Thanks. Bob...................
Good luck on calling them. I just received my Mitchell for the AA truck. I have called no less than 5 times to ask questions and have yet to get a return call. Very poor customer service. I was going to say that I hope they read the Barn, but on second thought, it may not matter at all...

Frank
emf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 07:23 AM   #13
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 2,321
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

I contacted Mitchell's by E-mail late one day, they responded by the next morning! :-)
And this was about a use OD that I purchased
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 07:25 AM   #14
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,803
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emf View Post
Good luck on calling them. I just received my Mitchell for the AA truck. I have called no less than 5 times to ask questions and have yet to get a return call. Very poor customer service. I was going to say that I hope they read the Barn, but on second thought, it may not matter at all...

Frank

Frank,
I have installed a number of Mitchell's and have several right now to do. I have spoken to Sue Mitchell countless times over the years and have always found them to be responsive. At 84 she is a gal who come into work every day and enjoys what she does for the Model A community. If it takes her a couple of days to call back I wouldn't fry her for that. Give it another try and be patient. Her son and their team do them as fast as they can and we are lucky to have them as a resource to us out here.
I remember when I bought my Ryan overdrive and the Mitchell was just coming out. Try getting Ryan overdrive parts or information. You'll wait a lot longer. Be patient and respectfull. Posting negative information here on them is not the forum for your gripe. As I said... I've never had an issue getting a hold of them.

Also, I agree with Steve B.... two quarts is way too much! you just fill to below the plug fill line. and yes... it could have not had oil in it till later on... maybe was forgotten about. A driveline evaluation by an experienced "A" mechanical person would be in order. It can be determined if transmission, rear axle, or something else.


Happy Tuesday!
Larry Shepard
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 08:18 AM   #15
emf
Senior Member
 
emf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hudson, NY
Posts: 405
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

I'm not trying to fry anyone. I simply would like to find out why my overdrive was not delivered as ordered. As far as getting Sue to respond, I understand that she is elderly, but I called 5 times over the course of a month to get a delivery date and was always told that Sue would call me back. She never did. She finally called to tell me that the unit would be mailed the next day. I also left an email note on their website last night in frustration.. I'll see how long I have to wait for a response.

Frank
emf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 09:55 AM   #16
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Frank, I got fried a year ago for asking if there was a problem because of no response. I have found email works much better for me. Someone on the barn told them I was bad mouthing them which wasn't true. I was seriously concerned that perhaps there was a health problem and asked here as not to bother them. Won't do that again, this forum can be brutal and some love to spread tales. Be careful what you post.
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 10:53 AM   #17
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,585
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emf View Post
Good luck on calling them. I just received my Mitchell for the AA truck. I have called no less than 5 times to ask questions and have yet to get a return call. Very poor customer service.
Frank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big hammer View Post
I contacted Mitchell's by E-mail late one day, they responded by the next morning! :-)
And this was about a use OD that I purchased
A while back I had a chance to buy a Mitchell that had never been installed. Unfortunately the gentalman misplaced one of the driveshafts I called AND e-mailed Mitchell's to ensure I could get a replacement before I bought it.

Never heard a word from them and needless to say I passed on the Mitchell. last I saw the guy it was still sitting in his garage.
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 12:18 PM   #18
Art Newland
Senior Member
 
Art Newland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 1,556
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

So strange, I'm in the process of installing a Mitchell transmission right now. My first call for information I spoke with Sue for info, then a couple weeks later I called to order and spoke with Sue again. A very delightful lady. I was quoted 12 weeks for delivery and after 14 weeks I called to make sure everything was in order, again I spoke with Sue and she told me they were terribly busy and said I should have my transmission in another week... which I did.
Art Newland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 01:32 PM   #19
joel rapose
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Chester Kalifornia
Posts: 41
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Gosh...Mr. Y-Blockhead....Please send me a PM and let me know where I can buy that Mitchell missing the driveline..... every time I have talked to Sue they have been super friendly and I am sure would be happy to make another one for me....I would love it...

Joel
joel rapose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 07:36 PM   #20
GASSERBOB
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 16
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

My mistake. It wasn't 2 quarts. And it was filled right below the fill line. I have to call them up yet. Thanks.
GASSERBOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2017, 09:52 PM   #21
1929
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 911
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

I never had a problem with the Mitchells, always returned my calls. I Know they are very busy at the shop.
1929 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 05:33 PM   #22
Zener424
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 76
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

GASSERBOB, any update? I too have a Mitchell Synchromesh. I installed it last year and it was noisy right away, especially in 2nd gear. I called and spoke to a gentleman that suggested that I drain out the GL5 rated 80W-140 and install 50% GL5 rated 80w-140 with 50% STP. I never did that. I figured I see if the trans noise got better over time. Now, a year later the noise recently has gotten worse. I'm planning on calling Mitchell to see if they still stand by the 50/50 recommendation or maybe recommend something else. The noise has gone from a loud wine to now a loud tinny metal sound when you first enter 2nd, gets better just before you shift to third. I will share my experience once its fixed.
Zener424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-27-2017, 06:43 PM   #23
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,585
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joel rapose View Post
Gosh...Mr. Y-Blockhead....Please send me a PM and let me know where I can buy that Mitchell missing the driveline..... every time I have talked to Sue they have been super friendly and I am sure would be happy to make another one for me....I would love it...

Joel
Late response Joel, I just saw your post... IF I had been able to talk to someone I'm sure the outcome would more than likely been different. But you see you missed the point. I could not get ahold of anyone to talk to.
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 07:45 PM   #24
Art Newland
Senior Member
 
Art Newland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 1,556
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

I've got about 100 miles on my synchronized transmission now. It was a little noisier than I expected, but after about 30 miles it started quieting down and now sounds like any other Model A transmission. I'm sure it needed a little break-in.
__________________
"whatever works!"
Art Newland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 10:14 PM   #25
daveymc29
Senior Member
 
daveymc29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Danville, CA
Posts: 1,425
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Mitchell does not run the new transmissions in. They will get quieter really quickly in most cases if driven with oil in them and some common sense used. Most any new gears will be noisy when first engaged, but I will wager that even yours with 50 miles on them are quieter than when you started. My hearing isn't all that good, so I have never heard my tranny, The Mitchell. If it is still noisy after 100 miles I'd call Steve Mitchell.
daveymc29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2017, 10:54 AM   #26
Zener424
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Staten Island, NY
Posts: 76
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Hi, I'm getting back to everyone on the noise issue with my Mitchell transmission.

I removed and dis-mantled the Mitchell transmission and discovered defective roller bearings. The same type of problem that has occurred on newly manufactured rear wheel roller bearings is now occurring on transmission roller bearings. They are manufactured very poorly. These bearings have been sold by at least one major Model A parts vendor and installed in both original & Mitchell transmissions. The bearings used in both transmissions are the same part number. In some cases the end plates seem to be soft and the rollers eat through. In other cases the bearings are warped and don't spin properly. Also, there appears to be a design change in the rollers form NOS to newly manufactured. The old style bearings had an axle at each end of the bearing that fit into a hole in the end plates. The newly styled bearings have hollowed out ends on the rollers that fit into small round protrusions on the end plate. See the attached photos.

Mitchell has been excellent with their response & support. They sent me replacement shafts and bearings.

When replacing roller bearings on the Model A, try to find NOS.

*Look carefully at the left bearing end plate and you will see where the roller has worn a groove into the plate.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Def Large Roller Bearing A7121 .jpg (42.3 KB, 165 views)
File Type: jpg Def Cluster Gear Shaft A7111 1.jpg (58.8 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg Old style roller bearing.jpg (22.0 KB, 161 views)
File Type: jpg New style roller bearing.jpg (18.4 KB, 150 views)

Last edited by Zener424; 10-02-2017 at 07:15 AM. Reason: added additional information
Zener424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2017, 01:20 PM   #27
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,749
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zener424 View Post
Hi, I'm getting back to everyone on the noise issue with my Mitchell transmission.

I removed and dis-mantled the Mitchell transmission and discovered defective roller bearings. The same type of problem that has occurred on newly manufactured rear wheel roller bearings is now occurring on transmission roller bearings. They are manufactured very poorly. These bearings have been sold by at least one major Model A parts vendor and installed in both original & Mitchell transmissions. The bearings used in both transmissions are the same part number. In some cases the end plates seem to be soft and the rollers eat through. In other cases the bearings are warped and don't spin properly. Also, there appears to be a design change in the rollers form NOS to newly manufactured. The old style bearings had an axle at each end of the bearing that fit into a hole in the end plates. The newly styled bearings have hollowed out ends on the rollers that fit into small round protrusions on the end plate. See the attached photos.

Mitchell has been excellent with their response & support. They sent me replacement shafts and bearings.

When replacing roller bearings on the Model A, try to find NOS.

*Look carefully at the left bearing end plate and you will see where the roller has worn a groove into the plate.
The link to this post appeared several weeks ago on fordbarn and is very disturbing. I immediately checked my stock of transmission roller bearings I obtain from Bratton's. Since I rebuild transmissions for several outlets I was very concerned. My stock turned out to be of the original design. I spoke with Walt Bratton about it and he told me they have been using the same supplier for many years.

Who ever is the manufacturer and retail supplier of these inferior bearings, it would do the Model A hobby a favor if they would be identified here on this forum.

Changing out the three roller bearings in the transmission is not a big effort, but getting the transmission out of the car is.

I know of one fellow club member who has a Mitchell syncro transmission that has a several hundred miles on it and it just screams. I suspect it has the inferior bearings in it.

Tom Endy
Tom Endy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2017, 03:33 PM   #28
rocket1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Midland Park,N.J.
Posts: 1,072
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Like i have been saying,try to find good usable original parts!
rocket1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2017, 03:11 PM   #29
Benson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central Highlands, Cen~Col
Posts: 2,219
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission.

Deleted extra post

Last edited by Benson; 12-30-2017 at 03:36 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2017, 03:21 PM   #30
Benson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central Highlands, Cen~Col
Posts: 2,219
Default Re: noisy Mitchell transmission. SAME SAME in stock transmission rebuilds of late ...

I built a stock A transmission 20 plus years ago with a new set of Mark gears. It was quiet at first but screamed like crazy after 2,000 miles.

After another 2000 miles I tore it down to see why all of noise.

One roller bearing self destructed like photos above in post #26. Wiped out 2nd slider and matching gear on cluster ie the surface of gear teeth where they mesh is damaged.

Again all of these were brand new Mark gears.

Note added: Bearing that was destroyed was inside the cluster gear. So one end of Cluster gear was flopping around which caused damage to gears and noise.

Last edited by Benson; 02-28-2018 at 08:31 PM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:05 AM.