Castrated A

[MALAK]

Ok now that I have your attention!

I thought I'd share how I replaced the "Balls" on my A, since I couldn't find any info about it besides the instructions "you simply cut off the old ball, drill the hole, slide the new ball stud in place, and weld!" (from Snyders).

I purchased an easy steer kit and decided not to install the new cups on such worn balls. Here's how I replaced the balls.

[MALAK]

First I made a fixture to hold and clamp the arm in my mill. I realize most don't have a mill but I do so this is how I did it.

The fixture is 1-1/2" steel drilled and reamed for a 3/4" hole (size of the arms shank) with a pocket milled out to keep the arm from spinning and to length of the arms shank, 1". I had to create a generous counter sink as the arms have a good sized fillet in the corner.

[d.]

both MAFCA and MARC have published detailed articles several times outlining this procedure...photos and everything. Check 'em out.

[MALAK]

Next comes the fun part. Using a cut-off wheel attached to a hand grinder I cut-off its balls.
Next, using the fixture I clamped to the mill table. I originally was going to use an angle plate bolted to the fixture and support the ball end with a jack and clamp. I found that by chance my fixture was the correct height to clamp the ball end in the tables slot, without any rocking.

Next mill the cutoff area flat and center on the tables slot. I used what remained of the machined shoulder under the (now removed ball) to find the center in the x direction and drilled a center hole.

Next drill a small through hole followed by a pre-ream hole.

Next ream hole to size. Snyders says the new ball shank size is .497 but I found them .4985 to .5025 so I had to choose reamer accordingly for a .0005(minimum) press fit.

[redmodelt]

Check Snyder's catalog, re-balled steering arm are listed. I think A&L does them. Sorry but it is not just my opinion but others too, that is the wrong way to replace the balls. Current thinking and way; the ball part is milled off leaving a stub then a pre-drilled ball is pressed on and plug welded. This keeps the strength of the arm as you are not removing material except for the diameter of of the ball.

[MALAK]

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Next press in new balls.
Finally TIG weld [both] sides of the new ball to the arm.
Paint and reinstall arms.

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Check Snyder's catalog, re-balled steering arm are listed. I think A&L does them. Sorry but it is not just my opinion but others too, that is the wrong way to replace the balls. Current thinking and way; the ball part is milled off leaving a stub then a pre-drilled ball is pressed on and plug welded. This keeps the strength of the arm as you are not removing material except for the diameter of of the ball.

Thanks for your response and you bring up a couple good points.

I actually considered the method of machining the ball off and leaving a stud with which to weld on a drilled ball. But these balls (balls with a pre-drilled hole) are not readily available and it would be too much trouble to make some.

As far as just purchasing the reconditioned arms I also considered this but that's $100 + shipping (two ways) vs $4/ball = $16 plus my time. Plus I have the equipment necessary to [properly] do this repair.

I actually found a thread discussing this repair and some [bad] experiences and failed repairs. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...5884&showall=1

In the one example in which a picture was posted it is perfectly clear why this repair failed. The repair ball was only welded on the back side and it looks like the weld was ground off (for appearance sake) to smooth it out. It also looks like it wasn't a press fit in the arm. Which means every time the car was steered the weld joint would flex and eventually crack and break. I suspect the other failures mentioned where probably due to similar type repairs.

Done properly there should be no issue with this repair. And I'm 100% confident in mine.

With the concerns brought up in this and previous post it should be noted:
1) Don't do this unless you are 100% capable of doing it properly
2) Don't just drill and weld
3) Do drill AND ream for a press fit into the arm (minimum .0005)
4) Do TIG weld the joint [both sides]

[denniskliesen]

Yours look done properly to me. The procedure of drill, ream to a press fit, and tig weld on both sides look good. I have only three questions, are the balls hardened? Were Henry's balls hardened? Do you think the arm itself, not the shaft of the replacement ball, would have benefitted from a bevel to get better penetration and more welded surface?

[Oldbluoval]

Redmodelt is exactly correct. A fly cutter in a mill with a jig for the mill positioning and leave a stud.
The drilling weakens the area considerably as can welding make it brittle.
I wouldn't drive one not done this way.
Balls are available and can be drilled in a mill or lathe

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Redmodelt is exactly correct. A fly cutter in a mill with a jig for the mill positioning and leave a stud.
The drilling weakens the area considerably as can welding make it brittle.
I wouldn't drive one not done this way.
Balls are available and can be drilled in a mill or lathe

I appreciate your response but I disagree.

Machining the ball off to leave a stud isn't a problem. I can think of several ways of doing this, all with the same result.

You say drilling weakens the area considerably.
The shank of the new balls are nominally .500 and the pad area measures 1-3/16 to 1-1/4. That's more than double the shank thickness. The thinnest part of the arm (leading into the pad) is just .580 but the machine work doesn't affect this area.
The weakest part of this repair is the .500 shank of the new ball. How much load can a .500 shank handle? A lot more than normal steering forces generate. Like I said the steering arm itself is only .080 thicker than the new balls shank.

As far as welding making it brittle.
This applies to [both] repair types. One thing that hasn't been brought up before is: How many thousands of times has that [old] shank been flexed, back and forth, in a work hardening motion? Consider also how many impacts and dirt roads these things have been down. And now you go machine AND weld on it. Is it a matter of time before these develop stress fractures at the root of that old shank? I don't know but it's something to think about.

Yes balls are available and can be turned or milled for a hole.
I considered the studded ball (available from just about all the parts stores), chucking it by the shank in the lathe, and boring a hole in it, then cut off the shank. Also, I considered making a ball holding fixture with which I could reliably and repeatedly hold a ball in a 3-jaw chuck and boring holes this way. What a PITA!!

The attached pic is from post #22 of the previously mentioned thread. It should be clear to any who examine this pic why it failed.https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=22

Drilled, reamed (for press fit), and TIG welded (both sides) = I'm 100% confident in this repair.

[Oldbluoval]

Just my humble opinion stated above........
I had one break several years ago (bought, not my work back then). But, it was likely stick welded....granted, tig is way advanced and much better as to brittleness.
I "think" A&L does it the way I spoke about but haven't seen their's since Al passed; I think Allen is following all of Al's methods.
To each his own
Regards

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

Yours look done properly to me. The procedure of drill, ream to a press fit, and tig weld on both sides look good. I have only three questions, are the balls hardened? Were Henry's balls hardened? Do you think the arm itself, not the shaft of the replacement ball, would have benefitted from a bevel to get better penetration and more welded surface?

I don't believe the new balls are hardened. I'm not sure what steel is used so they may or may not be able to be hardened. Since I'm using the E-Z Steer kit, with Teflon cups, I'm not too worried about it.

I'm not sure about Henry's balls (that sounds weird). I'll try a file on one of the cut-offs and let you know.

No I don't think beveling would be any benefit. Unless you wanted to go for a more original look. You could bevel, weld, and then blend the weld into the original forging, without removing too much of the weld.

[Oldbluoval]

McMaster Carr used to sell hardened and stainless balls. Haven't looked in ages

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by Oldbluoval

Just my humble opinion stated above........
I had one break several years ago (bought, not my work back then). But, it was likely stick welded....granted, tig is way advanced and much better as to brittleness.
I "think" A&L does it the way I spoke about but haven't seen their's since Al passed; I think Allen is following all of Al's methods.
To each his own
Regards

Agreed. There was no offence taken from your post. Actually I don't mind people being critical or disagreeing with me. That's sort of the purpose of a forum; people present ideas, others disagree and propose counter ideas, and the rest can form their own opinions based on the information presented. Several people people disagreed in this thread and there were examples of failures in the quoted (previous) thread. It was actually one of these disagreements that prompted me to put the disclaimer at the end of my post stating:
1) Don't do this unless you are 100% capable of doing it properly
2) Don't just drill and weld
3) Do drill AND ream for a press fit into the arm (minimum .0005)
4) Do TIG weld the joint [both sides]

[denniskliesen]

Yes McMaster-Carr sells stainless and steel balls.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#ball-bearings/=1ea6cjl

Notice they claim stainless are not as hard as steel balls in their descriptions...These are ball bearings, not a machined from stock ball and shank that the vendors sell. Dilling one of the steel balls from McMAster-Carr might not work very well as you would be trying to weld a hardened metal to a low carbon steel and I doubt it would hold and most likely crack next to the weld on the hardened ball. Besides that it would take forever to drill one of those if even possible. As MALAK mentioned you would need a fixture to drill one.

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by MALAK

Agreed. There was no offence taken from your post. Actually I don't mind people being critical or disagreeing with me. That's sort of the purpose of a forum; people present ideas, others disagree and propose counter ideas, and the rest can form their own opinions based on the information presented. Several people people disagreed in this thread and there were examples of failures in the quoted (previous) thread. It was actually one of these disagreements that prompted me to put the disclaimer at the end of my post stating:
1) Don't do this unless you are 100% capable of doing it properly
2) Don't just drill and weld
3) Do drill AND ream for a press fit into the arm (minimum .0005)
4) Do TIG weld the joint [both sides]

And notice if as an example of a replacement ball the dimensions from Snyder's the shank is not .500" I seriously doubt there is consistancy with those ball shanks OD .0005" Read the link to the dimensions.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/weld-in-ball-stud
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/C...311-W-2857.pdf

I had to laugh when I read Snyder's description "With this style of ball, you simply cut off the old ball, drill the hole, slide the new ball stud in place, and weld!" There's alot more to it than "simply".

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

And notice if as an example of a replacement ball the dimensions from Snyder's the shank is not .500" I seriously doubt there is consistancy with those ball shanks OD .0005" Read the link to the dimensions.

Originally Posted by MALAK

Next ream hole to size. Snyders says the new ball shank size is .497 but I found them .4985 to .5025 so I had to choose reamer accordingly for a .0005 press fit.

Yes I agree. Notice I said early on in the thread that Snyder spec'd the shank at .497 however I have, and measured, 12 balls. NONE measured .497. They ranged from .4985 to .5025 (smallest reading) with about a .0005 out of roundness so .4985/.4990 to .5025/.5030. I have multiple reamers, in .0005 increments, about the .500 range so chose reamer accordingly.

[MALAK]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

Yours look done properly to me. The procedure of drill, ream to a press fit, and tig weld on both sides look good. I have only three questions, are the balls hardened? Were Henry's balls hardened? Do you think the arm itself, not the shaft of the replacement ball, would have benefitted from a bevel to get better penetration and more welded surface?

Update:
I used a file to check the hardness (or relative hardness) of the old vs new balls. The original balls are whatever the base metal of the forging is and files like mild steel.

The balls (from Snyders) are much harder than the original. I'll stop short of saying they are hardened (cuz that wouldn't make any sense) but they are definitely a harder steel.