Flathead Intial Timing locations??

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Over the years i have heard many opinions on where the timing cover pin was located . It ranges from 1 degree to 4 degrees.
When we built our Salt Flats truck our engine builder marked the exact tdc position and with the cover we ended up using it turned out to be 4 degrees .
I had a box of covers and picked the cleanest one to use ..
It appears to me that the Ford folks placed this mark anywhere from 1-4 degrees shown in the 1952 Motors manual.
I can understand if they had a slight issue they would just move the pin a couple degrees based on need.
I can also relate to the set all timing on the pin by lining up the dot,notch and the pin. Makes life in the service bay a whole lot better for all concerned.

I guess i would like to set in on the arguement of how much difference 2-3 degrees makes at wot???

Note i said "set in" not partipicate !!

[Henryat1140]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this might be an opportune moment for this question.

The car is a totally stock 36 with a 21 stud engine.

I'm used to model T's and A's where you set the timing by a lever on the steering column, and have lots of experience with that - as you probably know, as you advance the spark, there is more power and the engine runs cooler - of course there is such a thing as too much advance and you have to watch for that.

I have a couple of questions regarding timing and advance on the helmet type distributor:

Realizing the helmet type distributor was made in the days of lower octane, can we modify or adjust the timing procedure for today's fuels and road conditions?

Specifically, can I move the timing adjustment on the side of the distributor to get more advance? If so would I move it up or down?

Secondly, is the leather piston brake still needed? How would I adjust it for today's fuels and driving conditions?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Henry

[JWL]

The specs. shown all indicate 2 degrees for the Flathead V8. I have checked a high number of engines and they are all closer to 2 degrees than anything else.

As for how much difference 2 or 3 degrees will make at WOT it would depend entirely on where that 2 or 3 degrees was added---If the timing was at 10 degrees at 2500 RPM the 2 or 3 degrees would help. On the other hand, if the engine was on the verge of detonating at 20+ degrees adding that 2 or 3 degrees would probably destroy it before you could remove your foot from the throttle.

[Russ/40]

Bubba, your initial observation is not quite correct. If you look at the chart, you will notice all front cam mounted V8's were 4 degrees. The beginning of the 8BA era changed all V8's to 2 degrees. The 6's and large truck 339's which also appeared in the lincolns, were a totally different animal.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by Henryat1140

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but this might be an opportune moment for this question.

The car is a totally stock 36 with a 21 stud engine.

I'm used to model T's and A's where you set the timing by a lever on the steering column, and have lots of experience with that - as you probably know, as you advance the spark, there is more power and the engine runs cooler - of course there is such a thing as too much advance and you have to watch for that.

I have a couple of questions regarding timing and advance on the helmet type distributor:

Realizing the helmet type distributor was made in the days of lower octane, can we modify or adjust the timing procedure for today's fuels and road conditions?

Specifically, can I move the timing adjustment on the side of the distributor to get more advance? If so would I move it up or down?

Secondly, is the leather piston brake still needed? How would I adjust it for today's fuels and driving conditions?

Thanks for your suggestions.

Henry

Since the distributor is turning counterclockwise, you would move the distributor clockwise to advance it(up). Back the vacuum brake piston all the out and road test to check for any pinging. Adjust accordingly.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

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I think the point is , check the engine and make a mark and always know where top dead cylinder is per engine....

My concern would be what part determines this 2-4 degree mark ? The cover , the timing gears, the camshaft. More than half the engines i do distributors for are built out of multi engine parts etc.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Specifically, can I move the timing adjustment on the side of the distributor to get more advance? If so would I move it up or down?


My thinking is after testing tons of these on the tester not to remove the vacuum brake. The spark scatters and jumps around quite a bit with no load on the advance ring. Like one of the other posters stated loosen it up and then tighten it down for a slight load . Keep it lubed and adjusted.....

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Bubba, your initial observation is not quite correct. If you look at the chart, you will notice all front cam mounted V8's were 4 degrees. The beginning of the 8BA era changed all V8's to 2 degrees. The 6's and large truck 339's which also appeared in the lincolns, were a totally different animal.

I agree see my other post.....

[George/Maine]

I think with the Ford front dist the timing was set from factory.TDC is always that TDC.But with the timing gears the slot is advanced 4 degs,and when using machine its the same slot location.The early dist looking from front turns clock wise,so to advance it ,you turn to meet direction to rotor,Counter clock wise.I think the timing being off is do to the location of the keys and timing marks inside.

[Bassman/NZ]

Brian posted ages ago that a good setting was to advance to the third to last mark on the plate. This is for New Zealand where we typically run on 91 octane non-ethanol fuel. I tried this for my first fire-up and it was bang-on. Ran strong, no pinging, no overheating.

[Harylufa]

Hi!
Here in Argentina some mechanics used to set the point different measure example 0,014-0.016 (dual point)
Since I read the Fordbarn nobody said that points are the same measure 0.014-0.014 for example in my Ford 1946 being new of course.

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I think with the Ford front dist the timing was set from factory.TDC is always that TDC.But with the timing gears the slot is advanced 4 degs,and when using machine its the same slot location.The early dist looking from front turns clock wise,so to advance it ,you turn to meet direction to rotor,Counter clock wise.I think the timing being off is do to the location of the keys and timing marks inside.

From the front, the engine turns clockwise, so the distributor must turn counterclockwise.

[George/Maine]

I was thinking chain not gears,so pass side turn dist up to advance.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Harylufa

Hi!
Here in Argentina some mechanics used to set the point different measure example 0,014-0.016 (dual point)
Since I read the Fordbarn nobody said that points are the same measure 0.014-0.014 for example in my Ford 1946 being new of course.

If you look at the specs above one set is set differently from the other .
The build up (make ) set is adjusted to 27 degrees of dwell and then the break set (drivers side facing the engine) is set to have a total of 36 degrees. All the front mounts are speced this way.
This would make the adjustments different per set...

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

From the front, the engine turns clockwise, so the distributor must turn counterclockwise.

Yep all the front mounts turn "counterwise" and facing the engine the contacts on the left side "make" the circuit and the drivers side "break" the circuit.
Never thought much about this and found that sentance in a early 36 Ford shop bullitin set...

[Bassman/NZ]

So the real world effect is what? That the left and right points should be set at different gaps? Maybe 14thou left and 16thou right?

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I was thinking chain not gears,so pass side turn dist up to advance.

Down.

[Harylufa]

Originally Posted by BUBBAS IGNITION

If you look at the specs above one set is set differently from the other .
The build up (make ) set is adjusted to 27 degrees of dwell and then the break set (drivers side facing the engine) is set to have a total of 36 degrees. All the front mounts are speced this way.
This would make the adjustments different per set...

Dear Bubba!

Look this! is from Ford 1946 specification.
Breaker Gap: .014-.016 (both sets). Use special two step feeler gauge–.014 step ‘go’, .016” ‘no go’.

I do not understand, now I am confused.

Now my dist has (driver side facing the engine) left point 0,015 and right point 0,015 too! It means that is bad measured seeing the spec above, because the dist must have 0,014 left point and 0,016 right point???

When manual says .014 step ‘go’, .016” ‘no go’ I thought this was a range, so I set 0.015 in both point.

Ford 1946 specifications

Cam Angle or Dwell: Approximately 36 degree closed, 9 degree open. Set dwell at 80% (78%-80% @ 2000RPM) on Ford test set for both sets operating together with correct coil loading lead. Note—Cam angle for each set operating singly approximately 22 ! degree closed, 22 ! open

I did this! in the picture.

Please help me to understand.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Harry,

You are good at .015 and it will run just fine, the specs i gave was for a distributor machine to make it perfect.
I will down load the bullitin later on this week , kinda interesting reading......

[quickchange34]

Bubba just want to let you know what a great job you did dialing in my MSD for my blower motor. I build alot of them. Your Chevy dist. works great as well. Never had a problem with any of them. Just wanted to let you know.