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Old 05-15-2017, 02:20 PM   #161
Mart
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Default Re: New block

Found a slightly bigger, better res version of that image:
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:10 AM   #162
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No help at all from me. Just want to say this is the most interesting thread I've read in a long time! I wish you well in this endeavor Tod.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:25 PM   #163
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No help at all from me. Just want to say this is the most interesting thread I've read in a long time! I wish you well in this endeavor Tod.
Thanks. I hope to get it going soon.

Tod
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Old 05-16-2017, 05:16 PM   #164
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I was able to look over Ray's model and have decided that I will be making a model from scratch myself. There are a lot of surfaces that I don't need and many that did not translate over to my Surfcam so I will need to do far too much work editing and trying to see through everything to get what I can possibly use. It will be better and easier to start back where I left off. Many thanks to Ray for his trying to help me. His model is really nice. But to do what I am planning I need to have it done a certain way.

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Old 05-16-2017, 05:22 PM   #165
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Default Re: New block

Tod, You must be a patient, determined, detail-oriented man! Thanks for the regular up-dates!
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:11 AM   #166
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Here's a modification that might solve the 21 stud issue. If the deck thickness is increased to 1/2" along the bottom of the block, then you can drill the 4 holes needed for the 21 stud head. Unfortunately you'd still have to use block off plates on the front for the early block replacement. But it does solve one issue.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:11 PM   #167
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Here's a modification that might solve the 21 stud issue. If the deck thickness is increased to 1/2" along the bottom of the block, then you can drill the 4 holes needed for the 21 stud head. Unfortunately you'd still have to use block off plates on the front for the early block replacement. But it does solve one issue.

My plan is to make different cores for the front to make either version. There will be options for different water jackets also. That will allow me to make either block.

Tod
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:50 PM   #168
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Default Re: New block

I wish you well, I have a new intake port i'd like to share with you, but that migh e just too uch.
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:37 AM   #169
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I wish you well, I have a new intake port i'd like to share with you, but that migh e just too uch.
You can email me.

Tod
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Old 05-18-2017, 05:43 AM   #170
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Default Re: New block

One thing that I haven't seen offered up yet as an improvement is priority pressurized oiling to the crank journals. One person somewhere suggested an oil galley through the lifter bores. My block is being dipped right now and I haven't had time to go over the oiling system.

Is full pressure, filtered oiling, good with everyone?

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Old 05-18-2017, 06:35 AM   #171
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Default Re: New block

Yes please!
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:56 AM   #172
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Might be nice to have inlet and outlet fittings for the filter down near the pan rail or somewhere out of the way like that, if that's easy to do, it would eliminate hoses draped over the bellhousing.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:57 PM   #173
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Default Re: New block

Ford had a very odd oiling system for the 85/95/100 HP V8 engines but it wasn't all that out of place during that era. Where the oil pump pressure port interface is up in the bottom of the block, there is a little oil cavity with one feed port going up to the main feed galley and one going down to the rear main. This is why many folks mention 95% oiling due to that passage to the main since it is the only feed going down there and on to the rear rod crank pin. The rear cam journal is sort of oiled by the cavity that houses the oil pump idler gear.

Ford had oiling for the big Lincoln 337 tappets but the passenger car version had hydraulic lifters so it needed pressure to each unit. I guess Ford's engineers didn't feel that lubrication for the large diameter hollow tappets was all that necessary since there was plenty of windage off the crank and the tappet bores are relatively shallow.

Most 100% filtration set ups out there plug the normal oil pump port then add a new port on the pump body that exits the oil pan to get piped to the filter. The pressure then exits the filter and is piped back to the gallery on the back of the block so it will still oil all the necessary items.

100% filtration could be taken into account and resto guys could modify the existing filtration components to work for it so it would "look original". The Rodder guys could use what ever filtration set up they wanted to plumb in there.

Even Small block Chevy engines used the partial main bearing bypass system so It's not uncommon to keep it that way but the person doing the alteration for partial bypass has to open a new port at the back of the block then plug the port between the oil pump flow passage and the main feed passage to the galley tube. This was what was done during the war in order to install an oil cooler system since a lot of these motors were installed in personnel carriers and armored cars. The 59 series blocks still have the little unopened pad or boss back there where the port was opened up to the oil pump feed passage.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-18-2017 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 04:36 PM   #174
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I'll see what I can do about the oiling, but if I make a galley through the lifter bores it only helps if the lifters used are able to allow oil flow all the way through. I don't think stock lifters allow that, do they? I may have to make a galley so that when the lifter bores are cut it cuts into the galley some, allowing oil to pass along the side of the lifter. Kind of like the Clevelands were.

Not sure yet how I will do all three mains. The cam journals can be oiled from the top. A boss above each journal is drilled down through a top/center galley and then plugged with a 1/8 NPT plug.

Tod

Last edited by Tod; 05-18-2017 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:23 PM   #175
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Default Re: New block

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I'll see what I can do about the oiling, but if I make a galley through the lifter bores it only helps if the lifters used are able to allow oil flow all the way through. I don't think stock lifters allow that, do they? I may have to make a galley so that when the lifter bores are cut it cuts into the galley some, allowing oil to pass along the side of the lifter. Kind of like the Clevelands were.

Not sure yet how I will do all three mains. The cam journals can be oiled from the top. A boss above each journal is drilled down through a top/center galley and then plugged with a 1/8 NPT plug.

Tod
I think I have main journal oiling figured out!!! I will know for sure as my new model takes shape. I started on it today and the front is pretty far along.

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Old 05-18-2017, 06:34 PM   #176
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Default Re: New block

There are all sorts of cam followers out there. OEM were hollow non adjustable types. The Johnson adjustables were aftermarket and some are hollow and some are not. There have been every sort of tappet tried by hot rodders. From the mushroom type to the locked roller types. Most all survived without further oiling but some created a lot of wear to the bores.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:43 PM   #177
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Default Re: New block

Tod oil the mains first then continue up to the cam a reversal from stock. I do this on my race engines. Using the side oiler idea could get this accomplished but is it a lot of extra work for a very good improvement?
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:55 PM   #178
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Default Re: New block

I agree with hotcoupe. I personally like the 46-48 have a couple myself. I buy up anything 59A-B I can find

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Old 05-18-2017, 10:30 PM   #179
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Default Re: New block

Tod, I am aware of your 351C block. Didn't know you were involved with the Genesis and Pond FE blocks. Those are all excellent pieces and I applaud your talented effort.

My thoughts are get the bore size and air flow characteristics better then build a stronger block around those parameters.

Flathead intake ports do not flow well due to the lack of a good short side radius. A gently curved intake port that maintains the stock inlet location would do wonders. Eliminating the removable guide and making the ramp up to the backside of the intake valve real nice and smooth would really provide a performance kick in the pants.

Bigger bores helps everything and I don't see any reason not to take advantage of that free power. I'm talking 3 3/8" as a starting point. Maybe all the way to 3 1/2" is possible?

The end exhaust ports in the French blocks are good. The exhaust valve pockets could be curved towards the port to help even further.

In the center just fill that in curve the port walls to direct airflow down and out and do the best you can with that. No heat riser is needed. We can drill if necessary.

A few other thoughts: extra material around cam tunnel to provide for larger cam diameters in race engines if one chooses that.

Original bell pattern along with the SBF pattern to facilitate easy trans updates. (Probably the single best performance Mod you can do for and early Ford)


Remember with a Flathead Ford with performance improvements for $2500 is a bargain. After all your getting the equivalent of good block and heads as in a souped up OHV.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:47 PM   #180
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Default Re: New block

I don't think adding oil to the lifter bores is a practical idea, and will offer nothing to the reliability or performance to the engine. Considering the fact that under stock conditions lifter bore ware in negligible. In a competition engine the side clearance of the rod bearings is increased to provide more oil flow to keep the bearing cool. This added oil is more than enough to lubricate the cam and cylinders. If you want to make performance improvements to the block, they can b e done by just increasing the material in the cylinders to allow a 3 3/8 bore size. now a person can buy one non stock item that will produce aprox a 40% gain in low end torque. It will bring the CR up to 8:1 with stock heads and the stock cam and valves will supply enough AF for reasonable economical operation. For the racer or someone that want;s alittle more power the water jackets between the intake ports can be eliminated, often wounded why they were ther in the first place. This alone will allow the port to be improved allowing more flow. As for the exhaust the end ports exit into a 90 deg turn. Just put a radius here. we can do the rest. All thes mods have no affect on the stock use of the block, but now we have one block that can have 21 or 24 studs on it. an increse in displacement at a low cost and the need for expensive crank assys can be left to the racers. I have a 280ci Stock engine that provides mor torque than you'll ever need in normal operation. I'm sure some others could add to this. At 84. I doubt I;ll ever see one. I wish you well.
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