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Old 10-14-2016, 12:52 PM   #1
V8COOPMAN
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Default FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

1 What ‘n Why


These old Fords are great, right? Among the most-popular varieties seem to be the ’35 thru ’40 models. Keep in mind that these six years share a single, basic chassis lay-out. We find ‘em, we make them useable, and we even turn them into reliable, frequent drivers. One nuance that pops-up in conversation rather frequently with these models seems to be the old 3-speed transmissions for one reason or another. There’s no doubt that MANY of us have asked about, or at least shown some kind of interest in the subject of installing a Borg-Warner T5, a modern 4-speed PLUS O/D transmission, behind the flathead V8s that we can’t seem to live without. The truth is that several folks here at the ’Barn have successfully transplanted T5s behind flattys, both early ones and later ones. But virtually ALL that we’ve seen here have been equipped with an OPEN DRIVELINE and rear axle, either in the later pick-ups, or in cars that ORIGINALLY had a torque tube and a transverse rear spring. But for years now, many people that recognize the geometric and handling virtues that the original suspension and torque tubes afford, have asked about a way of keeping that torque tube, along with the ability to marry one of those oh-so sweet-shifting Borg-Warner T5s (with O/D) to it. Well, it has arrived folks. We’re gonna explain the basics, along with many of the specifics, as well as a bunch of the “whys”, along with quite a few pictures to illustrate the main points of this project. While it’s obvious that we are not addressing the ‘32-’34 model years here, it should be noted that the torque tubes on these models can still be bolted to a “shorty” T5 like the one modified in this article. The person doing the project would need to do his or her own fitting of the package into their own particular model of chassis.
We would love to hear everyone’s comments…..the good, and even the not so good.



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Old 10-14-2016, 12:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

2 Who Done It

Heard Saxon and I, Dick (DD) Davidson, have been piddlin’ with this project on and off for near a year now. I knew a little bit about the versatility of the basic design of the T5, and the resultant ease of interchanging factory Borg-Warner parts to end-up with different configurations for different purposes. You may want to note that TREMEC has bought-out the B-W name some years back, and that these transmissions are sometimes now referred to as TREMECS, or TREMEC T5s. Anyhow, I’ve since learned JUST how versatile the design REALLY is, even beyond my initial understanding and imagination. Heard wanted to put a T5 in his cool little ’36 3-window which is 8BA powered with a 1940 rear end. He also has a ’35 pick-up that he wants to do the same with. The coupe is a runnin’ driver, so he decided to begin this experiment with the ‘35 pick-up. Our first goal………find-out what it takes to make the shortest T5 possible, and to make it capable of bolting a SHORTENED torque tube and drive shaft to it, while requiring as little surgery as possible to the center CROSSMEMBER box and the X-rails. You all should understand that Heard lives northeast of Orlando, while I live NE of Houston. And while it’s possible to get a bunch figured-out far across the interweb, y’all gotta understand that I DID NOT get my hands dirty even once during any of what is shown or described here-in. All I did was share a bunch of questionable info and suggestions with Heard, while HE did all the spending, grunting and dirty work. He’s a pretty sharp guy though and was able to work around every lie and curve-ball that I sent his way.



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Old 10-14-2016, 12:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

3 Heart of the Matter



I’ve always liked the V8 Chevy T5 that came in Camaros from about ‘83-’87. It is known as a NWC T5, or NON WORLD CLASS. It’s easily distinguishable by the Chevy bolt pattern on the front of the case, and by the 26-spline input shaft. The wimpy T5s have a 14-spline input shaft. T5s were available in two very basic design varieties………the earlier ones were NWC, whereas the second generation were known as WC, or WORLD CLASS. These two different generations were different mostly in the design of, and materials used in their synchronizers, and in the design of some of the roller bearings used. The main theme to keep in mind is that you just don’t mix ‘n match WC parts with NWC parts. Other than that one rule, mixin’ ‘n matchin’ parts to create different configurations WITHIN the type is almost wide-open, using
B-W factory parts created to configure transmissions for MANY different auto manufacturers and models. T5s have been supplied as original equipment in dozens of makes and models worldwide, including foreign and domestic.
The NWC Camaro transmission has a wonderful gearset with ratios that are extremely user-friendly when used with old Ford 3.78 and even 4.11 rear end ratios. The Camaro gearset has a 2.95 first gear ratio. Even the O/D ratio that ENDS-UP (with this particular configuration) being .59, is great on the highway with a 3.78 or 4.11 ring and pinion, which MOST old Fords already have.


We’re using the basic Chevy transmission MAIN CASE. The cases are dimensionally the same as far as being machined to take all NWC hard parts, and the cases are all 9-Ľ” long, front to rear. We used the complete Camaro gearset and associated parts. The trick with this “shorty” T5 comes by combining parts from an ’82-’86 Jeep CJ 4X4 (4-wheel drive) T5 transmission. Actually, we only used the much-shortened MAINSHAFT out of the Jeep transmission proper, along with the REAR Jeep 4X4 output HOUSING. If I remember correctly, the Jeep shaft is only 16-ľ” long. We ascertained that the Camaro gears, etc all mount dimensionally on the front, identically-machined portion of the NWC Jeep shaft INSIDE the Camaro main case. Are ya starting to see what I mean by interchange possibilities? Continuing-on, I should note that the Jeep main shaft (or OUTput shaft) has an oddball 23-splines, whereas the 24”-long Camaro shaft that it replaced had 27-splines. This is important, because it requires that you use the Jeep’s SMALL diameter O/D gear, which slides onto those 23-splines, and is retained by a snap ring just like the Camaro gear was. Fortunately, the correct 25-tooth gear mates perfectly with the larger diameter Camaro O/D gear which mounts outside the rear of the case on the tail of the cluster shaft. The remainder of this “shorty” package consists of the 6”-long (front to rear) Jeep 4X4 OUTPUT shaft housing. It can be easily identified in our pictures as the black-painted, spare “mock-up” housing used to facilitate this project. This housing is essentially empty, except for the shaft running rearward through it, including a shaft seal. This seal will ride on the surface of a SPECIAL 23-spline shaft adapter that we will discuss in the next section. The housing is also the piece that houses and mounts the shifter. The large, round, rear-facing opening originally bolted-up to the 4-wheel drive transfer case in a Jeep. As it is here, it offers a perfect platform to bolt the old Ford torque tube to it via a simple aluminum adapter plate. As you will soon see, stock old Ford torque tube clam shell pieces bolt to the aluminum adapter plate which allows a shortened torque tube to bolt to and function just like Henry meant it to be. We’re even going to use a stock old Ford U-joint on the front of the d-shaft just like in the original Ford application.

















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Old 10-14-2016, 12:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

4 Darn….This Just Might Work



With it finally determined that we had successfully mixed-up a bunch of factory B-W parts into a combination that the factory probably never dreamed a need for, and feeling comfortable that it would function properly like any other B-W T5 would, we had one more big hurdle to overcome. Like I mentioned earlier, the Jeep output shaft has an oddball 23-splines at the rear end of the shaft. We had to find a way to adapt the 23-splines in such a way that we could fit a stock Ford 6-spline U-joint, as used at the front end of Ford torque tubes. We also felt that the U-joint needed to bolt to the rear of the Jeep main shaft just like it bolts to an old Ford 3-speed main shaft via a drilled, threaded hole in the end of the shaft. As luck would have it, I happened to run across a guy on the HAMB that goes by KATO KINGS. Turns-out he also lurks here on the ‘Barn under the name CRANIUM. Cranium makes the round, aluminum adapter plate which bolts onto the rear of the Jeep 4X4 housing. That plate is pretty straight forward and easy to build for most folks that can carefully lay-out a pattern and operate a drill press. More-importantly though, Cranium makes a beautiful 23-spline adapter (as seen below) from scratch, which also accepts the front of the 6-spline Ford U-joint. The adapter slides onto the 23-spline Jeep shaft, and the U-joint slides onto the adapter. An appropriately-sized bolt goes through the U-joint, the center of the spline adapter and threads into the end of the Jeep shaft. The shaft was rather easy to drill and tap to accept the bolt just like a Ford 3-speed main shaft. The END of the Jeep shaft does not appear to be case-hardened like the rest of the shaft surfaces. Like I said, this spline adapter is a beautifully-machined piece, and Cranium is rather proud of it. Nonetheless, it is a nice yet necessary part. The aluminum adapter plate is drilled and threaded to accept a ‘32-’36 Ford rear bearing retainer (pictured). This RETAINER is the piece that houses the U-joint, and that the clamshell assembly for the torque tube bolts to. This is everything that’s required to bolt-up a Ford torque tube.







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Old 10-14-2016, 12:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

5 Surgery Begins

Now, to make it fit. Again, Heard is going to use an 8BA, but an early engine will constitute the same length. He started by mounting the empty, dummy block onto the stock mounts at the front. Then, a cast truck-type bell housing goes into the mix, with a WILCAP Flathead-to-Chevy engine adapter which has the inclusive clutch throwout cross-shaft coming next. Bolted to this beautiful WILCAP adapter, the Camaro T5 main case bolts-up easy as pie. Then of course, the Jeep 4X4 extension housing is bolted to the rear of that. Then comes the aluminum adapter plate, and finally the stock Ford BEARING RETAINER, to which the Ford clamshell parts will eventually bolt. I’ve included a picture of the stock Ford rear transmission mount with the torque tube bolted-up so that you can visualize the original position of the rear of the original 3-speed. Anyway, the additional pictures show the initial interference between the black Jeep housing and the center frame CROSSMEMBER box assembly. We’ve also included a picture of one of these ’35 Ford center CROSSMEMBER box assemblies which has been removed from a frame, so that it is easier to see how it is built, and exactly what it is that needs the majority of the surgery. It would be easy to remove this BOX entirely, but we concluded that a lot of rigidity and integrity would be retained if we left as much of this center structure in place as possible. One important thing to remember about this center box is that it contains the mount for the wishbone ball at the bottom front. We tried every way possible to keep that ball socket, but the very rear, bottom surface on the Jeep housing would not quite go low enough with it remaining in place. You can see the interference in one of the pictures below. By lowering the rear of the WISHBONE the way we did, I believe my calculations showed that it only increased the front axle CASTER by about 1.5 degrees positive. Anyway, Heard just started rough-trimming the box until the entire Jeep housing would fit down low enough that the Jeep output shaft ended-up level with the original drive shaft and torque tube level. He determined the centerline of that level, as seen marked on the wooden stick in the picture. He aimed a laser through from the front of the engine’s main bearing caps thru the rear of the empty, mock-up trans and focused on the mark on the stick to get the final rear elevation for the Jeep housing.















Of course, a rear mount needed to be designed and created. You’ll note the rubber mounting pads that are seen in the pics, that the bolts pass through to secure the rear of the Jeep housing via bolt holes threaded into the housing’s bottom surface for some alternative mounting purpose. In addition, the wishbone also needed a new mounting mechanism. Heard carefully trimmed and saved pieces of the original ball socket, also seen in pics. He milled a receiver block to hold the socket in the proper position on the bottom of the new rear mounting plate, but a similar block could be carved-out appropriately with hacksaw and drill press if necessary. The pictured transmission / wishbone mounting plate could be built in many different, yet similar forms, but the way he decided to go is both strong as hell, and simple. Note that the surfaces of the four tabs that bolt to the bottom of the frame are not level with each other, as the bottom surface of the frame rails at that point curves ever so slightly. The mount plate is fairly self-explanatory via the pictures.



















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Old 10-14-2016, 12:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

6 Let’s Cut ‘n Glue Both Ends Together

OK, the engine, trans and wishbone ball are now bolted-into their final resting places. And we actually didn’t hack-up the frame very seriously at all. Now, we need to tie it all together by shortening the torque tube and drive shaft. If any of ya have been wondering up until now, the torque tube had “SOMETHING NEAR 8” taken out”. WARNING….WARNING!!! As Heard pointed-out……make measurements INDIVIDUALLY when measuring for shortening the D-shaft, and then for shortening the T-tube. DO NOT assume that one will be shortened the SAME amount as the other!!!!! But we’re getting a little ahead of ourselves. BEFORE things are ever taken apart initially, you need to determine EXACTLY where the rear end is supposed to sit, fore and aft. Note the two pieces of conduit in the picture, bolted between the banjo housing and the frame rails to keep that distance constant. Anyway, at first, we had to think about what exactly needed to be measured, so as to determine D-shaft and T-tube lengths. After a false start or two, and keeping in mind that the hemispherical bell on the north end of the T-tube has no definitive position on the clamshell area, we finally realized that the way to start is by measuring the distance from the hole for the pin in the pinion shaft at the rear, to the center of the speedometer gear as mounted on the driveshaft. When the speedo gear is properly mounted on the d-shaft with the snap ring in place, and with the front of the d-shaft slipped into the U-joint, the center of the gear’s position is accurately determined on the front end of the d-shaft. Measuring from that gear’s definite center point in space, to the pin hole in the pinion shaft gives you the information necessary to be able to compute the exact measurement for shortening your d-shaft. The rest just falls into place for the d-shaft’s OVERALL length. NOTE….’35 and ‘36 drive shafts are tubular, and tapered at both front AND rear. When shortening one of these, remove the un-wanted portion from the REAR end of shaft. If you take it out of the front end of the shaft, the remaining FAT portion will not clear the inside of the tapered front end of the T-Tube.
Determining the length of the new T-Tube is easy with the d-shaft now shortened. Simply insert the front end of the drive shaft into the T-tube. Assemble the bearing, washer, speedo gear and snap ring onto the D-shaft to position it at it’s NORMAL position in the T-tube. Assemble the FRONT of the D-shaft / T-tube into the U-joint and clamshell assembly on rear of transmission. With the REAR end of the T-tube positioned adjacent to the flat face on the front of the banjo housing where the T-tube flange bolts-on, mark the T-tube for what will NOW represent the OVERALL length of the SHORTENED T-tube AND it’s 6-hole bolt-flange. Compare the difference in length between the NEW mark, and the original OVERALL length. The DIFFERENCE should be what is removed, just forward of the 6-bolt flange (see pictures). Measure SEVERAL times…but cut only ONCE!

Heard got lucky and found an OLD guy at an old, local d-shaft shop by the name of “Pops”! It gets no better!! Pops has obviously done this a couple of times before. He shortened the d-shaft first. Heard then pinned the shortened shaft in position between rear end and the U-joint. He had already gotten Pops to part the T-tube in a lathe, and to remove the pre-measured, un-necessary section from the stock torque-tube. Heard had again assembled the front of the NOW two-piece T-tube around the D-shaft and into the front clamshell. He then bolted the rear T-tube flange into position on the banjo. Pops had machined a sleeve to slip inside the rear-most T-tube end, and welded a beautiful bead to permanently hold it in. This sleeve is to keep the two tube halves lined-up, as well as for substance to weld to. With the front and rear portions of the T-tube in place, Heard tacked the two tubes together (see pic), and then took it back for Pops to finish putting his magic weld on it. TOTAL bill at Pops’ shop…$120! Some folks may also note that the speedometer turtle now sits level on top of the T-tube. The original position angled downward, and was going to require hacking-out some more of the frame to route the speedo cable. This position will allow the cable to be routed over the top of the frame rail, under the floor. One additional note…the REAR radius rods have NOT been shortened. However, the tab which allows the rods to be bolted to the bottom of the T-tube has been moved forward and re-welded in the proper location.



Un-cut D-shaft



Shortened d-shaft



Torque Tube Ready to Weld-up



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Old 10-14-2016, 12:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

7 At Last…The Whole Enchilada In One Place!

So, there you have it. It took a little time to do, but now, all of the BASIC unknowns have been addressed. Of course, it all gets blown-apart again and Heard will final-finish any cut and crafted pieces to make it all look polished and presentable. However, it should be fairly simple to visualize the end product in your car. This was pretty easy to do without a body in place, but I would venture to say that younger, more-nimble folks than myself could probably carefully and slowly trim the center X-member box with a cut-off wheel from under the car with a body still in place. I hope we’ve presented this in such a way as to be interesting and helpful to many, and that it will answer some questions that many old Ford folks have kicked-around for a while now.
Please be aware that neither Heard nor myself sell or supply any kits, parts, or services related to this project. We’ve only presented this info in an effort to address some questions that continue to appear from time to time. We did this deed to serve our own purposes, mostly ’cuz it was past-due that someone come-up with one basic method to get it done. Hell, there sure ain’t no rocket science involved here. We’re only sharing some hard-earned, yet hard-to-find info with those that may have similar interests. What we can do is attempt to answer any additional questions that any of you might come-up with. Post ’em up! Viva the T5!


And a couple o' extra pics since Heard put the cab back on the chassis, to give an idea as to shifter location. DD



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Old 10-14-2016, 12:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

I'm looking forward to seeing the pics and the words around this.

Instead of cutting off the original wishbone mount would it have been feasible to machine the rearmost mount off the trans to get it down as low as it is now.

How much shorter is it than a std T5? Would it fit into something like a '32 chassis without modifying the chassis?

Last edited by weemark; 10-14-2016 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 10-14-2016, 02:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Dang. I wish I had the attention span to read this. I'll have to print it out and do it before I go to bed as my night time reading.

It would be so friggin' awesome if someone compiled this into a fairly user friendly kit for those of us with T5's to do this conversion. I want to use my T5, but like you, only with a closed driveline set up.

Thanks for posting.
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Old 10-14-2016, 02:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Excellent write-up along with pictures. CONGRATULATIONS>

Now people need the one part # to order .
Paul in CT
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Excellent job - well thought through and illustrated.

Mart.
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

excellent conversion thank you for sharing it with us
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:48 PM   #13
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save
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Old 10-14-2016, 05:57 PM   #14
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Very informative!
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:17 PM   #15
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awesome!!!!
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

V8 and Heard: Thanks so much for engineering that set up and letting us know how you did it. Fantastic. You guys are the best. If that was available as a kit it would sell like hot cakes. Be sure to keep us posted on any new developments. JIM
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:23 PM   #17
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When will the kit be available,
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Congrats on a job well done - great description, great pics, great writeup, and just a nice, clean job all around.
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Old 10-14-2016, 07:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

To Weemark
I'm very sure this will not fit into a 32 chassis without some major surgery to the K member itself.
Dick
As we discussed re the Cranium adapter, I'm very sure the Coupler available from GV would work very well with a minimum of machine work & EXPENSE.
Lastly, Dick, you've both done an admirable job of explaining how this was accomplished.
Had I been aware of this possibility, I may have gone this route rather than the 4 speed plus Gear Vendors Overdrive in my 32.
Well Done. Congrats!!
Jim
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

I thing the engineering involved in this project goes beyond saying. This was a complex project, I sometimes get into them once in awhile, and wonder if the time money and effort is worth the finished project. In my case I gave up on Ford torque tube rear axles 30 plus years ago, too many better replacements available today. Right now the Dana/Spicer 44 seems to be getting popular and very reasonable priced at 150-250 with disk brakes. Going to a modern transmission is for the best in preformance and economy, can't see keeping a 70 year old rear end.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:42 PM   #21
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once again old ron is right
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:21 PM   #22
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by weemark View Post
Instead of cutting off the original wishbone mount would it have been feasible to machine the rearmost mount off the trans to get it down as low as it is now.
Not really. I started by trying to relieve the rear part of that black 4x4 housing but I just couldn't get enough clearance without compromising the integrity of the case itself. That black one you see in the pics is pretty much trash at this point.

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Old 10-14-2016, 09:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

But would the Dana/Spicer be as rigid as the original? Do you keep the rear radius rods?

How much is the 39/40 frame different from the illustrated frame? I would love to make this mod on my 39 pickup as it is still disassembled.

Thanks guys, John
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:09 PM   #24
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once again old ron is right
Careful with this. Same logic could apply to why use a flathead. Outdated? Yep. Cool as shiz? Yep again. Going away? Nope.
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Old 10-15-2016, 12:16 AM   #25
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Well thought out and designed!!! My hats off to both of you. There is one question: Looking at the location of the shift tower on the T5 Trans it looks like the shift arm will protrude thru the floor well back into the cab of the truck. How close to the seat did it end up being?
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Old 10-15-2016, 01:00 AM   #26
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Great info & presentation guys!
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Old 10-15-2016, 01:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Yep- you guys deserve the Fordbarn flatheader of the year award!!
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Old 10-15-2016, 01:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

For anyone concerned about the position of the shift lever, there is an alternative to the T5, and that is the RTS F150 trans from 84-87. It's a 3+1 as opposed to the T5's 4+1, but all aspects of the conversion above apply to it. The beauty is that the shift lever is only 1 1/2" to 2" away from the stock early Ford position. I welded an early lever to the stub in mine, and no one can tell it's not an early Ford trans. I certainly do not miss the extra gear of the T5, and I can slam it through the gearchanges like a sports car.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Replacement 35-40 Ford X member with wishbone adaptor to suit T5 trans will also suit other trans.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MACS CROSS 6.jpg (80.4 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg MACS CROSS.jpg (113.9 KB, 172 views)
File Type: jpg MACS CROSS 2.jpg (132.7 KB, 170 views)
File Type: jpg MACS CROSS 33.jpg (85.9 KB, 152 views)
File Type: jpg MACS CROSS 4.jpg (106.7 KB, 143 views)
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bassman/NZ View Post
For anyone concerned about the position of the shift lever, there is an alternative to the T5, and that is the RTS F150 trans from 84-87. It's a 3+1 as opposed to the T5's 4+1, but all aspects of the conversion above apply to it. The beauty is that the shift lever is only 1 1/2" to 2" away from the stock early Ford position. I welded an early lever to the stub in mine, and no one can tell it's not an early Ford trans. I certainly do not miss the extra gear of the T5, and I can slam it through the gearchanges like a sports car.
Here is the adaptor plate to fit to the rear of the 3+1 trans so you can keep your closed drive and torque tube
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3 + 1 2.JPG (24.8 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg 3+1 trans adaptor 2.jpg (43.9 KB, 132 views)
File Type: jpg P5210253.jpg (38.8 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg P4230208.jpg (45.5 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg P4230210.jpg (37.4 KB, 119 views)
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Old 10-15-2016, 07:14 AM   #31
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Well thought out and designed!!! My hats off to both of you. There is one question: Looking at the location of the shift tower on the T5 Trans it looks like the shift arm will protrude thru the floor well back into the cab of the truck. How close to the seat did it end up being?
Les Williams
You can see about where it will come out in relation to the front of the seat by looking at the holes in the frame member here and comparing to the first pics DD posted.

Heard
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File Type: jpg 2016-04-18 15.12.05.jpg (52.1 KB, 1118 views)
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Old 10-15-2016, 12:30 PM   #32
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Well thought out and designed!!! My hats off to both of you. There is one question: Looking at the location of the shift tower on the T5 Trans it looks like the shift arm will protrude thru the floor well back into the cab of the truck. How close to the seat did it end up being?
Les Williams
As Heard pointed-out, compare the two pictures. In his pic of the seat bottom, the T5 shifter will come out of the floor just slightly forward of the mechanical brake arm that has all of that bailing wire wrapped-around it. Compare the square and round holes in the frame rail. I estimate that it's roughly 6" or 7" behind the stock Ford location. DD



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Old 10-15-2016, 01:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Great thread very nice work. I love your original old pickup she's a beauty. Does anyone know if these t5s were used in cars that we have in New Zealand?
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Oh man. Rad.
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Old 10-15-2016, 08:14 PM   #35
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Wow, great presentation, Thanks. old guy Rich.
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Old 10-15-2016, 08:47 PM   #36
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Great stuff!! Hard core, no BS engineering, with pictures no less. Thanks!
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Very nice project. Thanks for posting and your dedication to bring this application to life. I will be keeping this thread for future reference.
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:19 AM   #38
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Senor Heard
Is the WILCAP adapter the: BH 59A-350 ; BHA FHFT- 350, or the BHA -292 FTS?
Thanks, John
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Old 10-16-2016, 06:58 AM   #39
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Looks like allot of work to me!!
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:33 PM   #40
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Great thread very nice work. I love your original old pickup she's a beauty. Does anyone know if these t5s were used in cars that we have in New Zealand?
Tony.......Thank you for the compliments. Below is at least a partial list of cars that were factory equipped with NON WORLD CLASS T5s. I did not include a list of those using the WORLD CLASS variant because the necessary Jeep parts used in this project were never offered in WORLD CLASS guise. Remember, ya can't mix WC with NWC! DD

The non-world class T-5s were used in the following cars and trucks:
  • 1982-'85 AMC Spirit, Eagle and Concord
  • 1982-'86 Jeep CJ and XJ trucks
  • 1982-'85 Ford Mustang and T-Bird
  • 1983-'87 Camaro and Firebird
  • 1982-'92 Chevy/GMC S/T-10 pickups, Blazers and Astro van
  • 1982-'83 Nissan 280ZX
  • 1984-'86 Nissan 300ZX
  • 1984-'86 Chevette and Pontiac T-1000 also used this unit, however, the countershaft bearings were smaller and the T-Body bellhousing was not interchangeable with any other GM models.
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:59 PM   #41
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Great work. When I was doing all my tape measure engineering, I figured out that if my adapter between the rear-most face of the Jeep T5 and the front face where the rear clamshell bolts to was about 2-1/8" (going on memory only), I could use a stock 33/34 Torque-tube and driveshaft without having to shorten anything. Apart from the center section surgery required, it would be close to bolt-in.

The Jeep T5 shifter is about 7" more rearward than stock - again, I'm going on memory - I haven't fiddled with any of my early Ford stuff in a few years as everything has been on hold based on life events.

Good info, great conversion, and it sounds far more complicated than it is once you solve the challenge of the spline adapter & seal plate...it's really pretty simple.

I think I also figured out that using the Jeep 5th gear with the Astrovan cluster came up with an aggressive .59 OD ratio, which allowed a nice cruising RPM with an early Ford rear stock gear assembly.
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:29 AM   #42
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

I apologize to the guys that did all of this amazing work in that I am just now reading of it and just now bestowing my sincere praise of your efforts and results.

I don't normally look at posts that reflect modified vehicles. Regardless of the fact I am a purist, I so very much appreciate any venue wherein the "players" have shown keen insight, intellect and execution.

I have an engineering and tool making background so feel I can offer with confidence that these guys went to great efforts to make this happen at the level of quality depicted.

Congratulations to a job well done!
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:45 AM   #43
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Senor Heard
Is the WILCAP adapter the: BH 59A-350 ; BHA FHFT- 350, or the BHA -292 FTS?
Thanks, John
John,
It is the 59a-350.

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Old 10-17-2016, 11:56 AM   #44
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Ernie,
You are correct I believe that a stock 33/34 tube might have worked. It would be VERY close and I almost went this way, but I thought since I already had the '35 tt/shaft, I'd modify it. Dick could probably provide some input on this.

And you are correct, it sounds WAY more complicated than it really is. If I can do it, almost anyone on the Barn can do it. After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....

Also, you should know that your old T5 posts are what really started this whole thing so I'm puttin' part of the blame on you!

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Old 10-17-2016, 11:54 PM   #45
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Thanks ! We should be in St.Augustine for Jan-Feb. I would like to drop by on the Harley to see your work if that is OK.
John
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:09 PM   #46
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After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....
Great write up thank you. That torque tube weld is so pretty. Wish I could weld like that.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:30 PM   #47
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Ernie,
You are correct I believe that a stock 33/34 tube might have worked. It would be VERY close and I almost went this way, but I thought since I already had the '35 tt/shaft, I'd modify it. Dick could probably provide some input on this.

And you are correct, it sounds WAY more complicated than it really is. If I can do it, almost anyone on the Barn can do it. After all, I'm just a redneck with a welder. And I ain't very good with it either....Heard
Heard and Flat Ernie mentioned the possible use of a '34 torque tube and drive shaft. During the last couple of weeks while Heard and I were discussing measurements and methods for shortening the torque tube, Heard mentioned to me that he thought that a modified T-tube length should probably be about 61-7/8". Now while I'm not usually good for very much of anything, I have this uncanny thing about remembering certain numbers. I thought I remembered a '33-'34, V8 T-tube length being something like 61-13/16" (NOTE: 4-cylinder T-tubes and d-shafts are 1-1/2" shorter than V8). Sure enough, when I checked my notes, Heard's measurement indicated that in all likelyhood, a V8 torque tube from the aforementioned '33-'34 models should bolt-in "as-is"....un-modified! I suppose it's also possible that the driveshaft may have worked as well, but we didn't get that far, as we didn't have a '34 d-shaft to measure accurately.

I'm not surprised that Flat Ernie was already on to this nifty bit of old Ford trivia, 'cuz I was aware several years ago that Ernie had the desire to eventually adapt one of these Jeep-influenced T5s into his '40 coupe with a blown French flathead, along with it's T-tube and banjo rear end. Ernie's sweet coupe sure would be a "sleeper" in this guise.



Obviously, Ernie had already done quite a bit of engineering and homework on his own. As many of you will note, Flat Ernie has long been recognized on the FordBarn and the HAMB as the "Go-To" T5 guru. As Ernie and Heard noted, this project is certainly much easier to accomplish than it sounds like initially. I'm hoping that this thread has at least encouraged a few to consider this mod on their own cars. DD
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:45 PM   #48
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Heard and Flat Ernie mentioned the possible use of a '34 torque tube and drive shaft. During the last couple of weeks while Heard and I were discussing measurements and methods for shortening the torque tube, Heard mentioned to me that he thought that a modified T-tube length should probably be about 61-7/8". Now while I'm not usually good for very much of anything, I have this uncanny thing about remembering certain numbers. I thought I remembered a '33-'34, V8 T-tube length being something like 61-13/16" (NOTE: 4-cylinder T-tubes and d-shafts are 1-1/2" shorter than V8). Sure enough, when I checked my notes, Heard's measurement indicated that in all likelyhood, a V8 torque tube from the aforementioned '33-'34 models should bolt-in "as-is"....un-modified! I suppose it's also possible that the driveshaft may have worked as well, but we didn't get that far, as we didn't have a '34 d-shaft to measure accurately.

I'm not surprised that Flat Ernie was already on to this nifty bit of old Ford trivia, 'cuz I was aware several years ago that Ernie had the desire to eventually adapt one of these Jeep-influenced T5s into his '40 coupe with a blown French flathead, along with it's T-tube and banjo rear end. Ernie's sweet coupe sure would be a "sleeper" in this guise.



Obviously, Ernie had already done quite a bit of engineering and homework on his own. As many of you will note, Flat Ernie has long been recognized on the FordBarn and the HAMB as the "Go-To" T5 guru. As Ernie and Heard noted, this project is certainly much easier to accomplish than it sounds like initially. I'm hoping that this thread has at least encouraged a few to consider this mod on their own cars. DD
Dang, how about those apples? Now I just need to scurry up a '33-'34 rear before the prices skyrocket.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:54 PM   #49
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Hmmm.......I just went out there and measured my new shortened torque tube because I wanted to see how close I was to my initial 61 7/8. It is now actually exactly 62" overall.

Please don't use that 62" number though. Make your own measurements. Your results may vary depending upon whose adapters you use as well as other subtle differences.
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:16 AM   #50
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

That is really nice... you should sell the kit as it would do a great job.... were i just starting my 41 Pu conversion to T5 i would buy one, rather that do all i did to convert mine to open drive, in a New York Minute.....
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:14 PM   #51
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Dang, how about those apples? Now I just need to scurry up a '33-'34 rear before the prices skyrocket.
You don't need the whole rear end. Just the torque tube, and maybe the drive shaft from a V8 rear end. Remember, the 4-cylinder parts are 1-1/2" shorter. DD
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:04 PM   #52
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When I was working on mine a long time ago, I actually acquired a 33/34 torque-tube and driveshaft. My understanding is that it would all bolt up to the later rear, but would need the oil drain hole drilled or aligned...

Unfortunately, a couple of military moves, then a bunch of life got in the way. My old '40 is in storage and hasn't run in a few years. I'm working on getting into a new place here in the new year and hopefully consolidating all my stuff in one spot. Maybe then I can work through my projects and get back to the '40...
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Old 10-27-2016, 05:21 AM   #53
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Great thread. Thanks for sharing all the hard work!
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Old 10-28-2016, 06:46 PM   #54
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When I was working on mine a long time ago, I actually acquired a 33/34 torque-tube and driveshaft. My understanding is that it would all bolt up to the later rear, but would need the oil drain hole drilled or aligned...

Unfortunately, a couple of military moves, then a bunch of life got in the way. My old '40 is in storage and hasn't run in a few years. I'm working on getting into a new place here in the new year and hopefully consolidating all my stuff in one spot. Maybe then I can work through my projects and get back to the '40...
Hey Ernie...No doubt the driveshaft would be "close" in length, and could probably have been made to work in Heard's '35 with (at the most) having to make sure the hole for the pin at the rear splines lined-up with hole in pinion shaft. At the most, a new hole would have had to be carefully drilled at the correct spot. As I tried to explain in the thread, the dimension between the snap ring at front, and the hole for the pin at the rear is a critical and exacting measurement. The one difficulty I see with your '40 is that the pinion is six-spline, and the '33/'34 d-shaft is 10-spline, as was Heard's '35. DD
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:32 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by expavr View Post
Well thought out and designed!!! My hats off to both of you. There is one question: Looking at the location of the shift tower on the T5 Trans it looks like the shift arm will protrude thru the floor well back into the cab of the truck. How close to the seat did it end up being?
Les Williams
Hey Les.......Heard just put his cab back on the frame so that he could take a couple of measurements and answer your question with accurate info. Pretty slick, huh? DD



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Old 11-01-2016, 10:11 PM   #56
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The one difficulty I see with your '40 is that the pinion is six-spline, and the '33/'34 d-shaft is 10-spline, as was Heard's '35. DD
Yep...could've been a problem/challenge, but they do make a 10-6 coupler and gearsets are available in either spline...sometimes the later ones had a 10-spline pinion...no telling after 70 years!
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Old 11-02-2016, 02:34 AM   #57
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Great job ,Well thought out .Ted
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:05 PM   #58
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Good job DD and Heard. Wish we had a tech section here for filing these type of threads, but I plan to bookmark this one for future reference.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:47 PM   #59
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Heard,
Keep us clued in on your clutch linkage too if you will. I'd be real interested in seeing that. Thanks.
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Old 11-02-2016, 04:07 PM   #60
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Ted,
Will do. I'm also working on the parking brake stuff since that has to be sorted out.

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Old 11-03-2016, 02:57 AM   #61
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

DD, Heard,
Great stuff, I do have a question,
The overdrive gear swap,
your using the camaro bottom gear but a jeep top gear. You state the jeep one is smaller in diameter than the camaro one it replaced, yes? I'm trying to visualize how changing the diameter of one gear, of a pair of gears rotating around fixed axis, works? Going to a smaller gear on one axis surely can't have the correct depth of tooth engagement?
Am I missing something here? Surly making one smaller would necessitate making the other one bigger?
Could you clarify please?
Many thanks,
Martin.
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Old 11-03-2016, 07:57 AM   #62
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Martin,
Dick will surely jump in here since he can explain it better than I can but there are 2 different 5th gear configs for the Jeep. A 25/51 tooth combo and a 23/53 combo. As I recall, the Camaro had a 25/51, so all I had to do was swap out the gear on the Jeep shaft.

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Old 11-03-2016, 08:31 AM   #63
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Great thread you guys. And very informative. Excellent pictures. Thanks for posting this. Mark.
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:35 AM   #64
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Heard,
So to clarify, you used a jeep 25 and a camaro 51. Now it makes sence.
Thanks,
Martin
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:21 PM   #65
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Martin,
Yes. That is correct.

Heard
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Old 11-03-2016, 12:42 PM   #66
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooder View Post
Heard,
So to clarify, you used a jeep 25 and a camaro 51. Now it makes sence.
Thanks,
Martin
Martin......the Dick here. To confirm what you clarify above....Yes, Jeep 25-tooth mates perfectly with the Camaro 51-tooth LARGE diameter gear. It is EXACTLY the same diameter as the Camaro 25-tooth gear. In fact, they look essentially the same except for the difference in the number of internal splines in each......27/ 23. I see that Heard beat me to answering you, but below, you can see the two actual 25-tooth gears, as well as getting an idea of the difference between the lengths of the two main shafts. DD

27-SPLINE Camaro



23-SPLINE Jeep....in same Camaro case and Camaro gearset.

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Old 03-09-2017, 09:10 PM   #67
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Amazing what some great engineering, craftsmanship, hard work and research will get you. Great Job guys!!!
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Old 03-10-2017, 02:09 PM   #68
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Great skills love these projects go you guys
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:10 AM   #69
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

The T5 is such an amazing potato-head piece of equipment!
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:17 AM   #70
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Amazing project. Thanks
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:34 PM   #71
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

A most impressive endeavor and very professional. Now find a way to avoid torque tube cutting.
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Old 02-18-2018, 03:43 PM   #72
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

This is a game changer....
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:10 PM   #73
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike..Yorba Linda View Post
This is a game changer....
Mike......You would certainly THINK it was a game-changer, yet in the year and a half or so since we posted this "revelation" on the 'Barn, I've only had less than a dozen PMs requesting ANY details or info of any sort. I have NOT heard of even one person getting such a rig on the road. No doubt, there is a bit of extra effort, expense and planning involved for this project. My personal belief is that many folks fail to realize the advantages and importance of retaining Henry's torque tube system along with it's inherent geometry, as well as the manner in which the torque tube transfers loads to the Ford chassis.....hard to improve upon, geometrically! DD
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:18 AM   #74
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

great read. it looks well done, a lot of steps.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:46 PM   #75
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

How will John Deere grease do with the T5.
also the trans has to feed oil to the joint.
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:45 PM   #76
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

It's been roughly three years since Heard and I put this article up here on the 'Barn, and although we have probably received about twenty or so PMs with questions about our Jeep T5 conversion, we haven't heard of anyone completing one of these conversions...until now. I've wondered if it's possible that the few SERIOUS candidates for this conversion might just need a little more persuasion in the form of a testimonial about a running and completed car with well over 3,000 trouble-free miles on it. It just so happens that another candidate PM'd me last week asking a question, and in answering him I came across a T5-related link on the HAMB that I was not familiar with. In that nine-page link, I came across a '32 coupe that Cory Taulbert owns. Many of you know Cory from these pages here on the 'Barn. Cory always has "killer" cars, and the guy only has one way of doing things..."FIRST CLASS"! Turns out that Cory has put this same Jeep T5 with 2.95 1st gear and 0.63 O/D behind his SBC, and bolted-up to his shortened torque tube. Forget that he's using a SBC...it just as easily could be a flathead, as he is using the same flathead adapter that Heard used on his flathead-powered '35. So, to make it easy for y'all to follow, I'm gonna cut n' paste Cory's lengthy post (with pics) from the HAMB article. This combo just has so many benefits for someone that seriously wants to DRIVE his old Ford, and it works! See Cory's article below! DD


__________________________________________________ __________
__________________________________________________ __________


By: Cory Taulbert


Last year, we put around 6,000 miles on the 5w after the refresh. The car functioned perfectly fine but every time I drove the roadster (with a T5), I couldn't get over how well that trans performed compared to an early Ford trans. Since the car was done (to some extent), I did not want to have to redesign a rear suspension to go open drive T5. Knowing my two constraints, it meant I was going down the path of a closed driveline T5 conversion.




The closed driveline T5 leaves you with two options - the S10 4x4 trans, or the Jeep 4x4 trans. Both variants are non World Class units (more on that later). Even though the S10 variants are more plentiful, I preferred the more compact rear housing of the Jeep variant. I ordered a closed driveline kit from @Kato Kings here on the HAMB, and purchased a rear housing and S10 NWC box off of ebay for mockup.

I also decided that I wanted to retain my stock mechanical clutch linkage (it worked very well), so I decided to put a Flathead to GM trans adapter behind the sbc to early Ford adapter I already had. This had two advantages - 1) it allowed me to retain the original clutch system and 2) this setup was less bulbous than a GM bellhousing, meaning less floor intrusion. I picked up an adapter kit from @krylon32 here on the HAMB that he sells for putting a T5 behind a flathead.


With my mockup pieces together, it was time to get to work. I got the floor out, followed by the engine and trans. I pulled the torque tube and driveshaft out, leaving the chassis open.





With a lot of measuring, I determined that the top "bridge" of the k-member obviously had to go. The center hole, which allowed the driveline to pass through originally, also had to be enlarged. I rough trimmed this opening first to get the transmission through. With the carefully piloting of this transmission through the k-member, I was able to leave the "belly" of the structure untouched. This was very important for me as I did not want to disturb the wishbone attachment.





Next, I needed to build a rear transmission mount. The @Kato Kings kit allows you to use any early Ford rear trans mount. I chose to go with the '37-41 rear mount, as I thought it would work best for my application. Now this car already had a set of Industrial Chassis k-member legs, which worked very well for this conversion. I think that these legs more than offset any torsional stiffness that I lost with the removal of the "bridge" of the k-member, but it also provided a solid structure for building a rear trans mount.

I built a curved boxed structure that attaches to the bottom flange of the k-member legs, and also attaches to the vertical walls. I felt this helped create a torque box (paired with the k-member), further offsetting anything I lost with the removal of the "bridge".





Since the trans was now firmly located, I was able to mark the k-member for a final trim to allow sufficient clearance for any engine and trans movement. Once that was complete, I welded a return flange to the k-member off the rear that wraps from the top flange, all the way down, around the trans. This was another measure to ensure sufficient torsional stiffness.





Even though the "heavy" fabrication was done, I still had a bunch of small, but important, things to build.

There is no longer a short throw shifter available for a Jeep T5 shifter. I'm a big fan of Pro5.0 shifters, so I picked one up for a Mustang, and machined the base plate off of it. I then drew a new flange in CAD, and had it laser cut from aluminum. I welded the two pieces together, finishing off that task.





Next up was tackling the torque tube and driveshaft. In the middle of this T5 project, I decided that I wanted to build a fixture for shortening torque tubes. I've always been hesitant of the angle iron method (I know it has worked for a lot of people) because I was very concerned about ensuring both ends very not only parallel, but also concentric. If you look at a cross section of an original torque tube, you can see that the tube is not perfectly concentric.

I picked up a machined steel mandrel, and built a fixture that registered in the front bearing bore of the torque tube. The other end utilizes a sliding collar, with a flange for the banjo end to bolt to. I've found this fixture to work very well.















I then moved onto the driveshaft. This car had a '33-34 shaft in it from before. I decided to shelf it for a future project since it was already the correct length for a '40 rear end in a '32 frame. I had some extra front couplers from '35-36 driveshafts that I had built exhaust systems from. I machined a pilot in the back end to allow a press fit into a new chromoly DOM tube. I then picked up a 6-10 spline coupler from @Mac VP to use on the rear. This coupler works out well for a guy building a tube driveshaft with 6 splines as the coupler has enough diameter on it to be turned down to fit in shaft. Just like with the front coupler, I turned a pilot on the 10 spline side to allow a press fit into the tube.

I used the tailstock on my lathe to press the couplers in each end of the tube. After that, I checked it for runout before welding everything together.










Since the T5 is a bit taller than the early Ford trans, I did have to slightly trim the toeboard and floor for clearance. I made a trans tunnel from some 18g steel to cover this transition. It looks taller in the photo, but the peak of the tunnel is about 1.5" from the floor.





As I had mentioned, both the S10 and Jeep transmission were only on the non World Class design. The Jeep trans in general has a pretty poor gear ratio selection, so I knew that I needed to change it. I wanted to utilize the 2.95 gear set used in many Mustangs and Camaros, which is a close ratio gear set that's very fun on the street. I also knew that I wanted a World Class box for the improved syncros and higher torque capability. That set me off in a big research project to understand how I could get there. It's a big story in itself, but the important take-away is that you can't swap mainshafts between NWC and WC. I obviously needed the very short Jeep mainshaft to use the Jeep rear housing. To make a long story short, I was able to locate a factory Tremec shaft that had the Jeep length, but the WC interface.

Once I had that in my hands, I sent my mockup parts and mainshaft down to Astro Performance in Florida to assemble the trans. They've done a few open T5s for me, and I've been very pleased with the work. They put together a 2.95 gear set using all Tremec made parts, and a good used 2.95 input since Tremec no longer manufactures one. It's paired with a 0.63 OD. Once that came back, I ran a dial indicator on by bellhousing combination to confirm it was in tolerance before bolting up a new RAM diaphragm clutch. Once the trans was in the car, I assembled the rear mount and got the engine/trans secured in place.










I've had the car back on the road for a couple of weeks now, putting more shakedown miles on it since the T5 conversion. I've logged about 250 miles so far, and the car has been working out very well.

I should also mention that while I had things apart, I sent the rear end to Hot Rod Works for a refresh. We ended up replacing just about everything due to some past work that wasn't up to par - this rear end had been converted to slide-in axles at some point in its life using early F1 parts.


Guess this thread is as good of a place than anywhere to drop in the update that we drove this car to the Hot Rod Hill Climb last month...(OCT 2017). The car ran well there and back, and we even made a couple of runs up the hill too!












((I'm seeing about 74 mph @ about 2,500 rpm...DD))





The total trip came in at 3,061 miles....(OCTOBER 2017).
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:20 AM   #77
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Thank you, Very much. Mr V8COOPMAN For taking the time to share the info that you and Heard and now Cory, processed to achieve this very practical choice of power multiplication. I had much desire for the convenience offered by the ratios available. My health limitations have put a damper on project processes.( almost gave the junk away ) This kick may, I say may, get me to the point of success in finalizing my decades old dream.

Your contributions here have always been spot on. I for one am grateful, I'm sure there are others who look for your posts.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:39 PM   #78
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

i'm doing a t5 / flathead conversion now and have a question about locating the throwout bearing return spring inside the bell housing. bell housing adaptor is not drilled and has no method included. any thoughts, or should I start a thread?
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:02 PM   #79
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

On all 3 of my 5-speed builds I drilled a hole and used a cotter pin, round end in inside the bellhousing (upside down) to hook the return spring to. The hole drilled was as far back as I could make it .....
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:19 PM   #80
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

thanks for that, nice and simple. can't vibrate loose?
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Old 06-19-2019, 06:57 AM   #81
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

My roadster has been all over the US - no problems with it, my .old 40 coupe or my present/new build. Once in and the legs are folded over, you’re done .....
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Old 06-19-2019, 10:41 AM   #82
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

Or drill and tap the flange for a bolt. Screw in the bolt and then drill and cut it off.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:06 PM   #83
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

that's slick too. there's very little info show how people deal with this.
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Old 06-20-2019, 10:43 AM   #84
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

There’s always more than one way to skin a cat!
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:26 PM   #85
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Default Re: FINALLY…T5 WITH Torque Tube in a ‘35-’40 Ford...The WHOLE STORY!

I used the cotter pin, done in 4 mins. I crimped the springs end a bit so it couldn't come undone after passing through the cotter pin. thanks for both of those suggestions.
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:40 PM   #86
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I love it when a plan comes together!!
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