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Old 01-09-2019, 11:52 AM   #21
denis4x4
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Sounds like some one doesn't mind losing a heap of money. Why do people buy a company, then run it into the ground? Incompetence? Stupid? What?

In the early to the mid seventies, major companies were scouring the SEMA show looking for companies to buy in the high performance industry. Very simply, these hot rod equipment companies were very profitable. The prevailing thinking by the corporations was that if some guy with a high school education could make this kind of money making exhaust headers, think how much more money you could make with MBA's running the outfit.


While major corporations brought business knowledge and lots of capitol to the table, they lacked the knowledge of their customers and the passion of the founder and therefore failed. There were more than a few guys that bought their businesses back for pennies on the dollar.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:52 PM   #22
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Why do people buy a company, then run it into the ground? Incompetence? Stupid? What?
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While major corporations brought business knowledge and lots of capitol to the table, they lacked the knowledge of their customers and the passion of the founder and therefore failed. There were more than a few guys that bought their businesses back for pennies on the dollar.


There is some truth in this however there is often another side in this from what I hear in seminars, --that while it is unethical and illegal, it happens WAY too often in business sales in that the books are 'cooked' to represent an inflated P&L.


While many will be quick to say that this is fraud and rarely done, nothing could be further from the truth regarding the 'rarely done' part from what my banker and CPA tell me. Sometimes it can be found beforehand thru a full-audit however someone who is shrewd with the books can make this virtually undetectable until well after the sale has been consummated. Even when it has been discovered, an undercapitalized company generally does not have the funding to contest this in court. I would be interested to hear what Bill Underwood says in his experience with this type thing.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

If you have the right attorney and account. Do your due diligence. You should know what your buying.

With a small ma and pa business there is probably more likelihood of a potential problem.

With a multi million dollar business. It’s one of the responsibilities of your advisers to make sure the numbers are correct. “Cooked Books”.

You must know what you are buying. “Buyer Beware”.

Everyone selling a business is not misrepresenting what they are selling. Like anything else, antique cars as an example, the buyer has to do there homework.

Good people sell good businesses. Age, health, no one to take it over. There are many sound reasons businesses are sold.

I would think there are as many problems with buyers. Bankers that I know make sure to check both the buyer and seller. Can the buyer run the business, and are they getting what their paying for.

In my view. If your paying for a accountant and attorney. I hope both are understanding of businesses. Not divorces, and simple tax returns.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
There is some truth in this however there is often another side in this from what I hear in seminars, --that while it is unethical and illegal, it happens WAY too often in business sales in that the books are 'cooked' to represent an inflated P&L.


While many will be quick to say that this is fraud and rarely done, nothing could be further from the truth regarding the 'rarely done' part from what my banker and CPA tell me. Sometimes it can be found beforehand thru a full-audit however someone who is shrewd with the books can make this virtually undetectable until well after the sale has been consummated. Even when it has been discovered, an undercapitalized company generally does not have the funding to contest this in court. I would be interested to hear what Bill Underwood says in his experience with this type thing.
It happens lots -When I was buying my practice I learned very quickly not to believe the figures I was given. Turn over looks great if you are banking your own checks . I always used to just ask for the appointment book -Interestingly some guys were seeing 5 patients a day and putting through enough cash to have seen 60. You do get the other situation where the owners have a profitable business which they siphon cash out of into their back pocket. All good until Uncle Sam catches them or they try to sell their business (sometimes both at the same time) The books, of course, look dreadful and they wonder why they can't sell -Karl
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:35 AM   #25
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I don't know what happened to LB. I do know I quit dealing with Mac's because the new employees there knew nothing about a Model A and were simply there to write down part numbers.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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I don't know what happened to LB. I do know I quit dealing with Mac's because the new employees there knew nothing about a Model A and were simply there to write down part numbers.


Sometimes it is best to deal with a smaller parts vendor that has good personal knowledge of the Model-A products they sell. Bert's Model-A is a great example and they are reasonably close to your side of the country.
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Old 01-11-2019, 11:31 AM   #27
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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It happens lots ................. I learned very quickly not to believe the figures I was given. Turn over looks great if you are banking your own checks . -Karl
Kind of on a similar note, watch the Netflix one hour special 'All The Queens Horses' about Rita Crundwell, the City of Dixon, Illinois employee who stole just shy of $53 million from the city coffers. Dixon isn't very far from us we go thru there a lot.

Among other things, Dixon thru Rita had hired an accounting firm to create ledgers, the firm gave the books to Rita, she turned them back over to be 'audited', and sure enough they were found to be in order That firm was also named in the lawsuit for many millions of dollars.

Good show, the FBI and US Marshall's office talks about how much of these kinds of things go on all over, every year. Lots of thieves out there.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Hey Jeff/Illinois, isn't it sad that so many people today have lost their moral compass. Maybe it's always been that way and I'm just kidding myself. It gets disheartening to always have to worry about being conned and often whoever is doing the conning is doing it with impunity.......
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Hey Jeff/Illinois, isn't it sad that so many people today have lost their moral compass. Maybe it's always been that way and I'm just kidding myself. It gets disheartening to always have to worry about being conned and often whoever is doing the conning is doing it with impunity.......
Exactly the times are sure different than when we grew up
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

I would second this and suggest everyone shopping for Model A and Model T parts wherever you are contact Sammy Guthrie of Arizona Model A (480)782-0266 because his service is second to none.
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Old 01-12-2019, 12:35 AM   #31
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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I would second this and suggest everyone shopping for Model A and Model T parts wherever you are contact Sammy Guthrie of Arizona Model A (480)782-0266 because his service is second to none.
Ditto.
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Old 01-13-2019, 03:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

Classtique appears to be a viable alternative for the Model A hobbyists and while I may have missed it on their website, it appears that they have no offering after the '31s. That's a big hole from a V8 era point of view.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:08 AM   #33
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Default Re: LeBaron Bonney Co.

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Sometimes it is best to deal with a smaller parts vendor that has good personal knowledge of the Model-A products they sell. Bert's Model-A is a great example and they are reasonably close to your side of the country.
I couldn't agree more, been dealing with them for years, and learned a lot from them, but I haven't purchased anything from them since...... Tuesday?
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