Which Carb is best, and why?

[CB919ER]

I'm still in the process of getting all the kinks worked out of my 29 Coupe. Currently the car has a Marvel Schebler (sp?) carburetor on it and I have a Tillotson sitting on my work bench. I've been told that a should invest in a Zenith for the car as that is what it came with originally and that is what would work the best.

I'm open to ideas, suggestions, and opinions...

[Purdy Swoft]

I prefer the Zenith over any of the pot metal carbs . I prefer the Simmons cast iron carburetor over the Zenith. The Simmons cast iron carb often fools some because it looks a lot like the Zenith carbs The simmons carbs that I have used are simplier and don't drip or leak like the Zenith often does . the castiron Simmons is a performance carb with a high speed passage that functions similar to the model B carb .The model B Zenith carb has a high speed jet and a larger venturi. The B carb is more complicated but probably out performs all other updraft carbs that are used on the model A . That is If the model A manifold runner is enlarged to model B size .

[Will N]

Zenith, 'cause that's what they came with.

[NCRebel]

I don't know the others cause I work on the Zenith 1 (came with the car).

I dare not go into Holly carbs or other muscle machine juice producers.

[George Miller]

My vote is for the B carb with a bored out intake.

[AL in NY]

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B carb on a B manifold!!!!!!!

[Mike V. Florida]

Any one properly restored!

[WHN]

New Zenith is what I would recommend.

No problems since I installed on our 29. No leaks, no problems, runs great. Enjoy.

[DJ S]

Definitely either a Zenith or a marvel. I have a rebuilt Zenith on my car which runs great but I do like the pep my grandpa's roadster has with a Marvel.

[RB_Nielsen]

I have a prof-restored Marvel installed with a prof-restored Zenith side bowl under the seat on my late '31. So far the Marvel is more reliable, more powerful, and doesn't leak. YMMV.

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

B carb on a B manifold!!!!!!!

Agree

[CB919ER]

Originally Posted by RB_Nielsen

I have a prof-restored Marvel installed with a prof-restored Zenith side bowl under the seat on my late '31. So far the Marvel is more reliable, more powerful, and doesn't leak. YMMV.

Where did you have your Marvel restored?

[ChicagoBob]

I've always had good results with the Zenith. Easy to clean and maintain, and runs reliably at all temps and speeds.

[RB_Nielsen]

Marvel carb restoration guy:
T. jr (JR) Bullock
976 Country Road 2310
Texarkana, TX 75503
903-748-8299
[email protected]

JR is one of the nicest guys in the business, and has been restoring Model A carbs for many years and Marvel carbs are a specialty. I purchased a restored Marvel from him last year, bolted it on to my '31 that I thought I had completely cleaned out the gas tank. Before long the carb developed problems, so I called JR and he said I needed to immediately send it back, which I did. The very day it arrived JR apparently took it apart, and found it was clogged with rust particles. He cleaned it out, then re-tested it on his own Model A, and sent it back at no additional cost to me along with a micro-filter that he admonished I put in-line with the carb. Last thing he said was I should be sure to contact him with any additional problems with the carb, but reassured me it was running fine on his "A." The in-line filter works great, and the Marvel has run great ever since. Like others who have one installed, I get noticeably more power from it than the rebuilt Zenith or the non-rebuilt Tilley I had on before cleaning out the gas tank.

[100IH]

Many carbs fail and initiate a search for another brand or model only because of rust in the tank or because the idle mixture screw is an air bleed and reverse of many other carbs.

[Herb Concord Ca]

I have Marvel's on both my A's. They run great, better than the Tillotson's I used before. Have been on the cars for 2 years.

[Davew]

I use one of JR's Marvel carbs and really like it. Great person with a lot of model A knowledge. Can't go wrong

[JRShaw]

The Zenith was the standard choice of carburetor throughout the "A" era. I believe that certain aspects and flow characteristics were specifically engineered into and during the design of the engine. From my understanding the others (Tilitson, etc.) were after thought, after market items. That's not to say that other manufacturers were not around before, during, or after the "A" development, just that from my reading, etc. the message strongly came through that there was some joint development between Ford and Zenith.

[pgerhardt]

I vote for the Marvel. I have a rebuilt (with flow tested jets) Zenith. My 29 tudor ran fine on it, but was subject to stalling when stopping since the float action is in line with the car's direction of travel, and is subject to inertia. Even Zenith must have realized that was a poor design since they changed it in 1932 for the model B. Rather that fiddle with the float level I decided to try (at the recommendation of a model A mechanic) a Marvel. My tudor loves it, and seems to have a little more "zip" than with the Zenith.

Am I worried that my tudor did not come with a Marvel in 1929? Since my tudor is running a 1936 diamond block engine, not really.

[100IH]

Winfield is in the other category. We should be so lucky. Its the most unique.

[steve s]

Brand new Zenith 13922 solved my problems.

Several of our club members have tried restored Marvels and I don't know any who have removed them.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by 100IH

Winfield is in the other category. We should be so lucky. Its the most unique.

Here's a supposedly NOS one to try out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/winfield-mo...Jae0Xx&vxp=mtr

Let us know how it goes.

[KenCoupe]

A few years ago, people were getting new/modern carbs from Automotive Test Systems in Washington. Does anyone use one of these now? I have Googled them, and it looks like they might not be in business anymore. I don't intend to get one of their carbs, but I am curious if anyone uses one and how it runs.

Ken

[rocket1]

B carb on a stock manifold,nice idle

[Tacoma Bob]

I have both a "Tillie" and a Zenith and like them both. The key is to properly inspect clean and rebuild them. Rebuilding does not mean simply new jets and gaskets. Although the Tillie is subject to warping I have had good results with putting them in the oven to heat the pot metal and keepin the two halves together with radiator hose clamps while heating to bring them true. Many feel the Tillie is a bit peppier. I do run the Zenith cause that's what it's suppose to have.

[steve s]

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Originally Posted by KenCoupe

A few years ago, people were getting new/modern carbs from Automotive Test Systems in Washington. Does anyone use one of these now? I have Googled them, and it looks like they might not be in business anymore. I don't intend to get one of their carbs, but I am curious if anyone uses one and how it runs.

Ken

yes and great.

[jm29henry]

A proper working ZENITH!!!

[d.]

Zenith was factory original equipment for 5 million Model A's from 1928 to 1931.
that's a pretty solid record...they work well.

[al's28/33]

ZZZZZZzzzenith!!!

[1930artdeco]

The zenith I had runs just fine with my car. I can run 50 mph all day long with it. I just have to open it up 1/4 turn when I come to a stop to prevent her from dying. My Marvel does not do that and I can run 55 all day long with a little extra incase of an emergency.

Mike

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

B carb on a B manifold!!!!!!!

X2 same here running a B carb with a B manifold. I modified the carb to intake flange on my B manifold to better match the angle of my GAV, not much work to it.

[harleynut]

Marvel gets my vote

[leo]

Many of you say Zenith because that was what the Model A came with and as a "stock" guy myself I can respect that. However, it's not out of the question to think that something else could have been an improvement if it was engineered and tested sometime later. I have a Zenith on my 1930 coupe and have not done any comparisons with any other carburetors, but it just may be that somebody did designed a better carburetor after Zenith's hayday......

[G Baese]

In the spirit of keeping to '30's parts and pieces, I have to 2nd Purdy's experiences.
In my hands at 5,000 ft, a Model B carb on a stock manifold is a slight improvement over the Zenith 1 or 2. Next up the ladder is a B carb or Simmons with a bored out A manifold and its still nice a Ford 'look'. Better yet for improved lower end and higher end is a Simmons on a Simmons Manifold.
Again ala Purdy, my cast iron dual updraft Uni-Flo manifold will be my next step.
If you are interested in seeing this dual updraft setup, there is a Trojan manifold and an aluminum Uni-Flo on the auction site right now. $$... yet cool to see since Purdy's and my cast iron Uni-Flo's were the only ones we'd seen.
And just so ya know, I was a Model A authenticity buff beginning in 1968 with my first car, a '29 Special Coupe. In the last decade, driving them around town got hairy. Rather than give 'em up, I pepped 'em up and feel capable of holding my own again.
Don't forget, the brakes need to be in excellent factory condition.
Have fun,
geary

[Purdy Swoft]

Thanks Geary for the thought !!! I'll have to check out the auiction sight . I can't have too many dual updraft manifolds !

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by leo

Many of you say Zenith because that was what the Model A came with and as a "stock" guy myself I can respect that. However, it's not out of the question to think that something else could have been an improvement if it was engineered and tested sometime later. I have a Zenith on my 1930 coupe and have not done any comparisons with any other carburetors, but it just may be that somebody did designed a better carburetor after Zenith's hayday......

Not only that, but Zenith changed their own design in 1932, so recognized that there was a problem.

So why would Ford stick with Zenith for millions of model A's? My guess is they were the cheapest option, and worked OK.

[Purdy Swoft]

Ford changed the design in 1932 for more horsepower . The venturi was changed to a larger diameter . A high speed jet was added that cut in at near wide open throttle . The float was hinged differently to reduce sloshing of fuel in the bowl . This reduced the possibility of stalling the engine apon braking . I would think that the cast iron Zenith carbs would be much more durable and more expensive . Ford found a way to make the Zenith design cheaper by making it thinner on the Zenith 3 carburetors.

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Ford changed the design in 1932 for more horsepower . The venturi was changed to a larger diameter . A high speed jet was added that cut in at near wide open throttle . The float was hinged differently to reduce sloshing of fuel in the bowl . This reduced the possibility of stalling the engine apon braking . I would think that the cast iron Zenith carbs would be much more durable and more expensive . Ford found a way to make the Zenith design cheaper by making it thinner on the Zenith 3 carburetors.

That (bold above) is what I am talking about. If you look at all the changes Ford made through out model A production, most were done to reduce cost so I am guessing that if there were a cheaper option than the Zenith Ford would have taken it.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by pgerhardt

That (bold above) is what I am talking about. If you look at all the changes Ford made through out model A production, most were done to reduce cost so I am guessing that if there were a cheaper option than the Zenith Ford would have taken it.

There is a difference in reducing manufacturing costs and making something cheaper.

Manufacturing engineers are constantly looking for new ways to improve there products and also cut their production costs.

If there were a better and less expensive carburetor available, that Ford would except, I think he would have most likely used it.

5,000,000 Model A Ford’s with Zeniths. 90 years later and there still running.

My money is on Ford’s decision in 1927 to use Zenith carburetor. Enjoy.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by pgerhardt

That (bold above) is what I am talking about. If you look at all the changes Ford made through out model A production, most were done to reduce cost so I am guessing that if there were a cheaper option than the Zenith Ford would have taken it.

Not sure what you mean by that BOLD above

[Purdy Swoft]

Sorry , I've got it now . The bold print at the top of the thread

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Not sure what you mean by that BOLD above

The float was hinged differently to reduce sloshing of fuel in the bowl . This reduced the possibility of stalling the engine apon braking .

[KenCoupe]

Originally Posted by steve s

yes and great.

Does that carb have the GAV adjustment or do you just set the air and idle screws and it runs right?

Thanks for your response.

Ken

[steve s]

Originally Posted by KenCoupe

Does that carb have the GAV adjustment or do you just set the air and idle screws and it runs right?

Thanks for your response.

Ken

It has a GAV adjustment but it has to be made at the carb, under the hood--the choke rod pulls as normal, but doesn't turn. This works pretty well, but not perfectly; in cold weather, the way mine is set up I need to manually feather the choke for a few seconds to keep it running on cold starts. But it's really no problem.

This carb finally solved my rough running problem after pulling up to a stop light on a hot day after a long run. Also, I can't stall the motor no matter how hard I hit the brakes. Previously, I had used several rebuilt Zeniths and a brand new repro Zenith 1.

[Capt Quahog]

Over the decades whenever an A Model Ford was acquired, at first opportunity, the Zenith would get pulled off and some other functioning carb get put on. Wasted too much time early on trying to get those design defective Zenith things to properly function and not stall on excess fuel. This current car came with a rebuilt Zenith that was dripping gasoline all over the place and flooding out. Got rid of it ASAP.

Used Tillys mostly back in the old days. Now employ a re-manufactured Marvel carb and that 31 sedan is the best running Model A I've ever owned. No problems!

[steve s]

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Originally Posted by KenCoupe

Does that carb have the GAV adjustment or do you just set the air and idle screws and it runs right?

Thanks for your response.

Ken

Ken,

Also, although the carb was sold by that outfit in Washington, it was still manufactured by a Zenith factory in New Jersey. I once spent a long, pleasant time chatting with the factory's customer service rep trying to figure out an engine surging problem I was having, before I realized it was due to my Parkinson's tremor in my foot!

For some reason, even though this model is sold specifically for Model A useage and is made by Zenith in the USA, the carb still doesn't get no respect. The same core is apparently also used for a variety of industrial applications and used to be disparaged as the "fork lift carb."

[Ed in Maine]

My vote is for a restored Zenith Carb. It is what came with the car. Be sure that when you rebuild the carb, you use jets that have been flow tested to the required specs. Get the carb rebuild manuals by Rex Reheis and Steve Pargeter. For years I rebuilt carbs only to be disappointed in the car performance. The reason was incorrect flow through the jets. Ed