The Ford Barn

Ronnie · 07-31-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

I would think hard about using glass bead. If those beads can find a way into the engine, all hell will break loose.

Yup that is a huge recipe for disaster 100%

R

4tford · 07-31-2015, 04:03 PM

I really do not understand the difference between cleaning this way and all the particles from grinding and polishing.

flatheadmurre · 07-31-2015, 04:26 PM

If you have narrow passages or sheetmetal spotwelded for an example beads get stuck in there and are hard to clean out.
But a crank isnt to hard to clean and a brush fixes the oil passages.

Ronnie · 07-31-2015, 04:30 PM

Not on a 4" crank.
Some reading http://virtualindian.org/2techclean.htm

R

flatheadmurre · 07-31-2015, 04:39 PM

If its that much a concearn that the beads has passed the tejp...
knock out the plugs in the crank.
And each time i grind a crank i deburr the oilholes...leaving that in the oil holes shouldnt be much more fun then a bead...

4tford · 07-31-2015, 05:15 PM

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all three of these need to be ground an polished. They will be cleaned in my shop and then hot tanked, ground and polished and cleaned again at machine shop. Then a final cleaning again before assembly. .

Blownflatheaddeuce · 08-04-2015, 07:44 AM

Ive done a few engines this way by leaving them in molasses (after they had been hot tanked to remove oil/grease) and they came out fantastic. Never heard of any issues or experienced any.

Both are STILL running really well - one is a blown flathead and the other a Desoto Hemi.

And I know many here who have done the same without an issue. What are the molasses supposed to harm ?

BFD

Scott H in Wheaton · 08-04-2015, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blownflatheaddeuce

Ive done a few engines this way by leaving them in molasses (after they had been hot tanked to remove oil/grease) and they came out fantastic. Never heard of any issues or experienced any.

Both are STILL running really well - one is a blown flathead and the other a Desoto Hemi.

And I know many here who have done the same without an issue. What are the molasses supposed to harm ?

BFD

Some folks are concerned the molasses will make the metal brittle or flaky, others think the mild acid effect will harm the machined surfaces.
I don't think its much different than a caustic hot tank at a machine shop.

KiWinUS · 08-04-2015, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Yup that is a huge recipe for disaster 100%

R

You do realize that all the latest block & heavy duty engine cooker/cleaners blast the blocks /components after cooking them with steel shot ! Standard automotive reconditioning practice ! So please explain how glass bead used correctly could be any worse that steel shot ?
Personally used both for many years & "NEVER" a problem !

Ronnie · 08-04-2015, 05:02 PM

I am quite familiar with internal operations of machine shops.
I have been employed by a major engine parts manufacturer for 30 plus years and have visited 100's of shops so lets not assume that I am not familiar with current shop operations.There is a large difference between a qualified shop performing a recognized repair scheme and someone cleaning cranks at home and seeking advice about the outcome of a job as described on an internet forum.No reflection to 40t ford as we know each other and have spoken to each other on more than one occasion.

http://eci.aero/pdf/09-2.pdf

http://virtualindian.org/2techclean.htm

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007...he-real-world/

https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceT...a_in_engin.htm

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2011...-engine-parts/

R

cmbrucew · 08-04-2015, 06:31 PM

Ronnie
Thank you sir for that real information.
Bruce

Ronnie · 08-04-2015, 07:21 PM

Bruce you are more than welcome.I Do enjoy engines and it is only fair to make sound judgements on information from companies that will walk you through the world of engine rebuilding and overhauling. There is some great reading there.
Glad you enjoyed the links. There is a lot more than just hoping the job was done correctly than following the correct way of obtaining a sound job.

R

KiWinUS · 08-04-2015, 08:34 PM

Ronnie all good reading mate , good old internet you can find pros & cons for anything ! "Most" of your examples do use blasting processes just as I stated ! as most in the industry do . I would go out on a limb & say there have been more engines restored , rebuilt , built , raced , that have had components internal & external blasted (of some type) & never had an issue after typical common sense preparation than problems created from incorrect use of these services & products . As I am sure you know there are many procedures & processes that not carries out or completed correctly can have catastrophic results !
cheers
Tony

Ronnie · 08-04-2015, 11:50 PM

Tony well said. I never had a problem with your statement,just the assumption that I could be a keyboard driveler,as the internet forums are full of those clowns. My post about a failure was aimed at the non shop home performed job to try and obtain some result without any correct equipment. My suggestion about the cranks would be go to a recognized shop have the shafts cleaned and inspected professionally and have them report back on the findings and then grind them to a proper size inhibit them and put them up for sale. That is the purpose of a true engine rebuild shop.
I have a few customers that won't sell engine hard parts unless they get the machine work.There are also some that if you supply the parts they will perform the machining
But you are on your own if there is a part failure. Its a tough world out there "LOL"
Cheers and keep on posting here.
Those info sights are easy to find when you have been in involved with engine parts all your working life.

R

Patterg2003 · 08-08-2015, 01:32 AM

Could you seal the bearing surfaces with something like a liquid plastic then do the the molasses dip? Thinking of something like liquid electrical tape or a product as that used to dip tool handles? I found these listed on the Canadian Tire site.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/pe...-0388015p.html

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/tools-...ontent=Default

That may allow you to still use molasses & protect the critical surfaces. It may take a strong solvent to clean it off. Could wrap the middle third of the journal with tape so it seals on the outer edges and the tape would help release it.

I was researching Oxalic acid on restoration pages and apparently oxalic only attacks the iron oxides and not the parent metal. I would still protect the bearing surfaces. AAA Supply House for taxidermists in Calgary & it may be available closer to you.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...e-rust.248198/
http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/show...acid-rust-bath!

If you had a scrap crank you could experiment.
Glenn

1952henry · 08-08-2015, 08:16 AM

Wood bleach =oxalic acid. Available in hardware stores. Works good for radiator flush as well. Need to neutralize with baking soda.

flatheadmurre · 08-08-2015, 12:02 PM

Most spraywasher detergents (caustic) takes grease dirt loose rust and even what they describe as light rust...
Thats a fast and easy start atleast.

rotorwrench · 08-08-2015, 07:15 PM

Back when aircraft cylinders were still channel chrome plated, we used to have to brush out the bores with soap & water before reassembly. The channel chrome process would reverse plate the bores after the chrome job to get the little channels in the surface. To smooth them out, they would hone them back to specs. The process would leave all sorts of nasty stuff in the channels. If you didn't brush them with soap & water at least twice, (once after honing and once before reassembly) the rings would wear out within a few hundred hours. The warnings about hard particles in a motor are real so if a person has to do a blast process that uses hard particles then they have to clean it VERY WELL prior to reassembly.

07-31-2015, 04:03 PM	#22
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: molassess and crank shafts I really do not understand the difference between cleaning this way and all the particles from grinding and polishing.

07-31-2015, 04:26 PM	#23
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: molassess and crank shafts If you have narrow passages or sheetmetal spotwelded for an example beads get stuck in there and are hard to clean out. But a crank isnt to hard to clean and a brush fixes the oil passages.

07-31-2015, 04:30 PM	#24
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: molassess and crank shafts Not on a 4" crank. Some reading http://virtualindian.org/2techclean.htm R

07-31-2015, 04:39 PM	#25
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: molassess and crank shafts If its that much a concearn that the beads has passed the tejp... knock out the plugs in the crank. And each time i grind a crank i deburr the oilholes...leaving that in the oil holes shouldnt be much more fun then a bead...

07-31-2015, 05:15 PM	#26
4tford Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Regina Canada Posts: 1,335	Re: molassess and crank shafts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) all three of these need to be ground an polished. They will be cleaned in my shop and then hot tanked, ground and polished and cleaned again at machine shop. Then a final cleaning again before assembly. .

08-04-2015, 07:44 AM	#27
Blownflatheaddeuce Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Deep DEEP South Posts: 223	Re: molassess and crank shafts Ive done a few engines this way by leaving them in molasses (after they had been hot tanked to remove oil/grease) and they came out fantastic. Never heard of any issues or experienced any. Both are STILL running really well - one is a blown flathead and the other a Desoto Hemi. And I know many here who have done the same without an issue. What are the molasses supposed to harm ? BFD

08-04-2015, 05:02 PM	#30
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: molassess and crank shafts I am quite familiar with internal operations of machine shops. I have been employed by a major engine parts manufacturer for 30 plus years and have visited 100's of shops so lets not assume that I am not familiar with current shop operations.There is a large difference between a qualified shop performing a recognized repair scheme and someone cleaning cranks at home and seeking advice about the outcome of a job as described on an internet forum.No reflection to 40t ford as we know each other and have spoken to each other on more than one occasion. http://eci.aero/pdf/09-2.pdf http://virtualindian.org/2techclean.htm http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007...he-real-world/ https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceT...a_in_engin.htm http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2011...-engine-parts/ R Last edited by Ronnie; 08-04-2015 at 05:12 PM.

08-04-2015, 06:31 PM	#31
cmbrucew Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: North of sandy ago, CA. Posts: 2,064	Re: molassess and crank shafts Ronnie Thank you sir for that real information. Bruce __________________ Works good Lasts long time

08-04-2015, 07:21 PM	#32
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: molassess and crank shafts Bruce you are more than welcome.I Do enjoy engines and it is only fair to make sound judgements on information from companies that will walk you through the world of engine rebuilding and overhauling. There is some great reading there. Glad you enjoyed the links. There is a lot more than just hoping the job was done correctly than following the correct way of obtaining a sound job. R

08-04-2015, 08:34 PM	#33
KiWinUS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Charlotte NC KiWi-L100 available here Posts: 2,960	Re: molassess and crank shafts Ronnie all good reading mate , good old internet you can find pros & cons for anything ! "Most" of your examples do use blasting processes just as I stated ! as most in the industry do . I would go out on a limb & say there have been more engines restored , rebuilt , built , raced , that have had components internal & external blasted (of some type) & never had an issue after typical common sense preparation than problems created from incorrect use of these services & products . As I am sure you know there are many procedures & processes that not carries out or completed correctly can have catastrophic results ! cheers Tony

08-04-2015, 11:50 PM	#34
Ronnie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canada Where it snows Posts: 2,058	Re: molassess and crank shafts Tony well said. I never had a problem with your statement,just the assumption that I could be a keyboard driveler,as the internet forums are full of those clowns. My post about a failure was aimed at the non shop home performed job to try and obtain some result without any correct equipment. My suggestion about the cranks would be go to a recognized shop have the shafts cleaned and inspected professionally and have them report back on the findings and then grind them to a proper size inhibit them and put them up for sale. That is the purpose of a true engine rebuild shop. I have a few customers that won't sell engine hard parts unless they get the machine work.There are also some that if you supply the parts they will perform the machining But you are on your own if there is a part failure. Its a tough world out there "LOL" Cheers and keep on posting here. Those info sights are easy to find when you have been in involved with engine parts all your working life. R

08-08-2015, 01:32 AM	#35
Patterg2003 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: NW Ontario Posts: 5	Re: molassess and crank shafts Could you seal the bearing surfaces with something like a liquid plastic then do the the molasses dip? Thinking of something like liquid electrical tape or a product as that used to dip tool handles? I found these listed on the Canadian Tire site. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/pe...-0388015p.html http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/tools-...ontent=Default That may allow you to still use molasses & protect the critical surfaces. It may take a strong solvent to clean it off. Could wrap the middle third of the journal with tape so it seals on the outer edges and the tape would help release it. I was researching Oxalic acid on restoration pages and apparently oxalic only attacks the iron oxides and not the parent metal. I would still protect the bearing surfaces. AAA Supply House for taxidermists in Calgary & it may be available closer to you. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...e-rust.248198/ http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/show...acid-rust-bath! If you had a scrap crank you could experiment. Glenn

08-08-2015, 08:16 AM	#36
1952henry Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,619	Re: molassess and crank shafts Wood bleach =oxalic acid. Available in hardware stores. Works good for radiator flush as well. Need to neutralize with baking soda. __________________ I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.

08-08-2015, 12:02 PM	#37
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: molassess and crank shafts Most spraywasher detergents (caustic) takes grease dirt loose rust and even what they describe as light rust... Thats a fast and easy start atleast.

08-08-2015, 07:15 PM	#38
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: molassess and crank shafts Back when aircraft cylinders were still channel chrome plated, we used to have to brush out the bores with soap & water before reassembly. The channel chrome process would reverse plate the bores after the chrome job to get the little channels in the surface. To smooth them out, they would hone them back to specs. The process would leave all sorts of nasty stuff in the channels. If you didn't brush them with soap & water at least twice, (once after honing and once before reassembly) the rings would wear out within a few hundred hours. The warnings about hard particles in a motor are real so if a person has to do a blast process that uses hard particles then they have to clean it VERY WELL prior to reassembly.