Later f1 trans to closed drive conversion.

[Mart]

Hello.
I have a later f1 3 speed trans that I want to convert to torque tube drive.
The gears in this later f1 box are a bit different than the closed drive parts I have on hand.

Drive gear is 16T
Cluster is 27-17-23-17. Edit: 13 not 17.
The helix on the shaft is more gentle (closer to straight than the earlier ones).
There is no thrust washer behind 2nd gear.

I have a closed drive shaft that has a pin (to locate a thrust washer behind 2nd gear).

I can see detail differences in the synchro hub.
The 2nd gear is thicker than the earlier 2nd gears. (Also larger diameter).
The 2nd gear on the older shaft with the thrust washer in place won't allow the synchro hub to slide fully home. (the circlip groove is not accessible).

So my questions are:

What do I need to do to put the later gears on the shaft I have?

Should I Try and thin down the thrust washer?
Should I try and thin down the gear?
Is there a simple solution I am missing?
Has anyone ever done this?
Does anyone understand what I am asking?

Thanks fellas.

Mart.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Mart

What do I need to do to put the later gears on the shaft I have?

Does anyone understand what I am asking?

Thanks fellas.

Mart.

Mart.....What little I know about it is that somewhere around '48-'50 (I THINK), Ford changed the profile on those gears making 'things' just DIFFERENT. I don't know if you can mix-'n-match that shafting or not. Mac VanPelt will probably sneak-in here shortly with a REAL answer! DD

[deuce5wndw]

Hello Mart, from the research I've done I don't think that gear set can be used with a combination for closed drive. I think the cluster gear count should be 27-23-17-13 and that equates with a 51-52 Ford truck open drive. 1942-50 open drive can be changed by using the early second gear and the output shaft. Sorry I wasn't more help, Dale.

[Mac VP]

Mart, you’re embarking on mission impossible with your proposal. Ford never offered a closed drive mainshaft that would accept the 1951-52 gears that you have in this transmission.

Some mfr actually did make some of this mainshaft but I never could identify who it was. About 8-10 years ago I acquired three of them somewhere. I fitted one in a transmission just as you’re attempting to do, and sold the others to customers who was going to do the same build. Those shafts had no markings or numbers on them anywhere. None of many old aftermarket gear catalogs I have show it either. I would love to find a motherload of them...

[Mart]

Ok Thanks fellas. It looks like I've bought an expensive empty case and shift tower.
It's a shame because the parts do look like they're in good condition.

Mac, just so I'm clear, lets say I could get the 2nd gear to sit on the shaft, with a modified thrust washer, would the sticking point be the sliding 1st/reverse gear? I would need to use an earlier one to match the helix on the shaft, is that not compatible with the 1st gear on the cluster and reverse idler?

When I looked I thought they looked the same, but I might need to look closer.

Thanks again for all the help.

Mart.

[Mart]

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Ok fellas, stand down.

I just answered my own question. Thanks for your comments Mac.

I was concentrating on the 2nd gear and could see away to make it work, (possibly) but the 1st/rev slider is the clincher. The helixes on the gears are different, which makes sense, as the helix on the shaft is calculated to match.

So definitely a no go. At least I didn't waste time trying to do the 2nd gear mods (with a good chance of failing). I can see it is a no hoper so will look to a plan B or C.

Mart

[Mac VP]

You’ve figured it out correctly Mart.