The Ford Barn

Bruce/CT · 11-14-2018, 08:29 PM

Hi Barners,
HELP!
I am stumped and humbly asking for advise. I am putting my 1936 Club Cabriolet back together and I have run into a roadblock. The Drivers side sub-rail and floor pan were replaced after I boxed in the cabin BUT now I have a door alignment problem.

The Drivers door horizontal reveal at the front and rear align nicely. The space between the cowl and door front is an even 1/8 inch vertically. The rear has a 3/4 inch gap at the top and a 1/4 inch gap at the bottom. How can I make this straight?.

Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I can try sending photos to your e-mail, if requested
Thank you in advance, Bruce/CT

wamnram · 11-14-2018, 10:32 PM

You need to shim the front of the cowl up, or the back of the body up. Then when the door gaps are straight front and back, shim the entire side of the body or the cowl up to get the top of the door and body line to match. Is the back of the door even with the body at top and bottom? ( door closed at bottom but slightly open at top or vise versa). After that you can pull the top of the body in or out using the b pillar bracket and the package tray width, or you may have to spring the door. If you have to pull the package tray width narrower, make sure the top irons still fit. If I remember right, adjust the body width at top firs, it will save you some shim work.

TagMan · 11-14-2018, 10:39 PM

Send the pics and I'll post them for you.

Not saying this would work for you until I see the pics, but I wound up laying a bead of weld on a section of the door edge on one of my doors and then ground it down for a perfect gap.

Kurt in NJ · 11-15-2018, 09:10 AM

On my conv sedan I have similar problem, I figured it was the cowl post --the side holes are out of position by the amount needed to get door alignment, my body was cross braced and door braced, but looking at how the body fits on the frame there is a larger gap between the floor and the floor pan each side of the door hinge post ----on my car the inside bottom of the cowl post was made too long, pushes the floor down

shimming the front of the cowl a lot can make it harder to get hood/fender /grille alignment

was the frame checked /straightened

compare measurements on each side---top of floor to factory holes/seams on cowl, top attachments,door striker holes etc at rear to the floor on each side ----

before paint the whole body, fenders,grill,hood need to be fitted

you have to lower the center or raise the ends, since you had work in the center start looking there for the problem

DavidG · 11-15-2018, 09:54 AM

Be mindful of Kurt's comment about the effect of shimming the cowl on the fit of everything forward of the cowl.

Karl Wescott · 11-15-2018, 09:08 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Review our advise on body to frame mounting, while not everything applies to a 1936 cabriolet many of the principles are identical. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf

A general rule of thumb is that each body to frame mount has three effects, crosswise, lengthwise, and horizontal. Where there is one alignment issue there are at least three shims needed, the final solution will cure three things with the last shim.

Kube · 11-18-2018, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce/CT

Hi Barners,
HELP!
I am stumped and humbly asking for advise. I am putting my 1936 Club Cabriolet back together and I have run into a roadblock. The Drivers side sub-rail and floor pan were replaced after I boxed in the cabin BUT now I have a door alignment problem.

The Drivers door horizontal reveal at the front and rear align nicely. The space between the cowl and door front is an even 1/8 inch vertically. The rear has a 3/4 inch gap at the top and a 1/4 inch gap at the bottom. How can I make this straight?.

Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I can try sending photos to your e-mail, if requested
Thank you in advance, Bruce/CT

My gosh, I hope the 3/4" is a typo and it is 3/8".
3/4" is huge. makes me wonder... did you install the doors and align everything before welding in the floor / sub-rail?

If it is in fact 3/8"at the bottom and 1/4" at the top, shimming will do the trick to make the gap even vertically. Once that gap has been corrected, I'd suggest you either shim the hinges a bit to equalize the horizontal gap at the front and rear. If that's not possible on a cabriolet, then bending the hinges is the solution.

Kube · 11-18-2018, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

Review our advise on body to frame mounting, while not everything applies to a 1936 cabriolet many of the principles are identical. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf

A general rule of thumb is that each body to frame mount has three effects, crosswise, lengthwise, and horizontal. Where there is one alignment issue there are at least three shims needed, the final solution will cure three things with the last shim.

I could not agree more.
One other general rule is that no matter how well the test fit was on all body panels, it never goes "right back" to where it was.
Lord knows I get the bodies and respective panels (doors, trunk lid, etc.) to fit perfectly prior to painting. IF I shimmed at all, I record exactly which shim went in which position. Never have I had an experience wherein I could simply replicate that installation once everything was painted.
Now I know fully well what I am in for at final assembly and simply laugh (at myself) should the crazy thought come in to my head that "this will go back together the first time just right"... yep, crazy talk.

JM 35 Sedan · 11-22-2018, 12:29 AM

Posting some pictures of the door misalignment on Bruce/CT's '36 Club Cabriolet.

Karl Wescott · 11-22-2018, 10:59 AM

Its always difficult to see the whole picture with a few snapshots, but the obvious things I see include.

1. The right cowl needs to be rotated (clockwise, facing the cowl side) to bring the back of the door up (or the quarter needs to rotate counter clockwise, or some combination). My big concern is if there are structural issues with the cowl sills or the frame.

2. The left door looks to be too far back at the bottom. This could be an easy fix of bending the door hinges to pull the door closer to the cowl or major surgery in extending the sill under the door.

As always... CHECK THE FRAME FIRST! If it is not right you will be fighting issues constantly. Take the body OFF and thoroughly inspect. Our frame diagrams may be of help but they are not the know all solution.

11-14-2018, 08:29 PM	#1
Bruce/CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middlebury, CT Posts: 780	36 left door alignment Hi Barners, HELP! I am stumped and humbly asking for advise. I am putting my 1936 Club Cabriolet back together and I have run into a roadblock. The Drivers side sub-rail and floor pan were replaced after I boxed in the cabin BUT now I have a door alignment problem. The Drivers door horizontal reveal at the front and rear align nicely. The space between the cowl and door front is an even 1/8 inch vertically. The rear has a 3/4 inch gap at the top and a 1/4 inch gap at the bottom. How can I make this straight?. Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. I can try sending photos to your e-mail, if requested Thank you in advance, Bruce/CT __________________ Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.......Henry Ford

11-14-2018, 10:32 PM	#2
wamnram Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Tan Valley, Arizona Posts: 210	Re: 36 left door alignment You need to shim the front of the cowl up, or the back of the body up. Then when the door gaps are straight front and back, shim the entire side of the body or the cowl up to get the top of the door and body line to match. Is the back of the door even with the body at top and bottom? ( door closed at bottom but slightly open at top or vise versa). After that you can pull the top of the body in or out using the b pillar bracket and the package tray width, or you may have to spring the door. If you have to pull the package tray width narrower, make sure the top irons still fit. If I remember right, adjust the body width at top firs, it will save you some shim work. __________________ Wayne

11-14-2018, 10:39 PM	#3
TagMan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Alvaton, Kentucky, USA Posts: 952	Re: 36 left door alignment Send the pics and I'll post them for you. Not saying this would work for you until I see the pics, but I wound up laying a bead of weld on a section of the door edge on one of my doors and then ground it down for a perfect gap.

11-15-2018, 09:10 AM	#4
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: 36 left door alignment On my conv sedan I have similar problem, I figured it was the cowl post --the side holes are out of position by the amount needed to get door alignment, my body was cross braced and door braced, but looking at how the body fits on the frame there is a larger gap between the floor and the floor pan each side of the door hinge post ----on my car the inside bottom of the cowl post was made too long, pushes the floor down shimming the front of the cowl a lot can make it harder to get hood/fender /grille alignment was the frame checked /straightened compare measurements on each side---top of floor to factory holes/seams on cowl, top attachments,door striker holes etc at rear to the floor on each side ---- before paint the whole body, fenders,grill,hood need to be fitted you have to lower the center or raise the ends, since you had work in the center start looking there for the problem

11-15-2018, 09:54 AM	#5
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,094	Re: 36 left door alignment Be mindful of Kurt's comment about the effect of shimming the cowl on the fit of everything forward of the cowl.

11-15-2018, 09:08 PM	#6
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,283	Re: 36 left door alignment Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Review our advise on body to frame mounting, while not everything applies to a 1936 cabriolet many of the principles are identical. http://www.wescottsauto.com/WebCatal..._Technical.pdf A general rule of thumb is that each body to frame mount has three effects, crosswise, lengthwise, and horizontal. Where there is one alignment issue there are at least three shims needed, the final solution will cure three things with the last shim.

11-22-2018, 10:59 AM	#10
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,283	Re: 36 left door alignment Its always difficult to see the whole picture with a few snapshots, but the obvious things I see include. 1. The right cowl needs to be rotated (clockwise, facing the cowl side) to bring the back of the door up (or the quarter needs to rotate counter clockwise, or some combination). My big concern is if there are structural issues with the cowl sills or the frame. 2. The left door looks to be too far back at the bottom. This could be an easy fix of bending the door hinges to pull the door closer to the cowl or major surgery in extending the sill under the door. As always... CHECK THE FRAME FIRST! If it is not right you will be fighting issues constantly. Take the body OFF and thoroughly inspect. Our frame diagrams may be of help but they are not the know all solution.