Starter Crank Hole Lubrication

[shew01]

Les Andrews Mechanics Handbook, Vol. 1, page 3-2 indicates that the starter hole should be lubricated with an oil can squirt. What should receive the squirt? My car has a stone guard so the hole is even more recessed (and darker inside the hole) than a factory car.

Any help is appreciated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

I debated even answering this. Sometimes advice given seems borderline foolish from my perspective. This is a prime example.


Oils & lubes are designed to bring longevity to something to avoid premature wear. In the case of the Starting Crank and/or the Starting Crank Bearing, what do we expect the life expectancy of either item to be? So with the each use considered a ¼ turn, would it be safe to say that most Model-As (-both in the past and in the future) would likely see 400 times of making that ¼ turn? If so, that is only 100 revolutions, ...and I'd say you could make several thousand revolutions before you would ever see any wear on the shank of the Starting Crank or the Bearing. Therefore applying oil which will only attract dirt and dust would not be of much benefit on adding longevity to either component. Just my 2 cents.

[1931 flamingo]

Does not that hole lubricate the top of the spring by "seeping" past the spring bolt??
Paul in CT

[shew01]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I debated even answering this. Sometimes advice given seems borderline foolish from my perspective. This is a prime example.


Oils & lubes are designed to bring longevity to something to avoid premature wear. In the case of the Starting Crank and/or the Starting Crank Bearing, what do we expect the life expectancy of either item to be? So with the each use considered a ¼ turn, would it be safe to say that most Model-As (-both in the past and in the future) would likely see 400 times of making that ¼ turn? If so, that is only 100 revolutions, ...and I'd say you could make several thousand revolutions before you would ever see any wear on the shank of the Starting Crank or the Bearing. Therefore applying oil which will only attract dirt and dust would not be of much benefit on adding longevity to either component. Just my 2 cents.

The advice isn’t foolish at all. The question may appear foolish to a seasoned Model A owner, but I’m a newbie, and I don’t want to skip something that appears to be simple that in the long run could be a costly mistake. I just don’t have the experience to know the difference yet. It sounds like I need to skip this lubrication spot. Thanks for the help. I’ve had the car about two weeks, and it is a blast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kurt in NJ]

--- from page 359 of the service bulletins, "flowing a little oil through this hole allows the oil to drain down between the sides of the spring and cross member and eliminates any possibility of any squeak occurring between cross member and spring"--- and it goes on about how to drill a hole in earlier ones lacking the lubrication hole

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thought I saw something recently that some As have a small hole/oiling point for the front leaf suspension spring, accessible through the crank hole?

[rotorwrench]

I rarely use the hand crank unless I'm working on the engine. It's easier to put some oil on the hand crank before you put it through the bearing block.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by shew01

The advice isn’t foolish at all. The question may appear foolish to a seasoned Model A owner, but I’m a newbie, and I don’t want to skip something that appears to be simple that in the long run could be a costly mistake. I just don’t have the experience to know the difference yet. It sounds like I need to skip this lubrication spot. Thanks for the help. I’ve had the car about two weeks, and it is a blast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I apologize if I insinuated that you were acting foolishly as that was not my intent or the reason for posting that.


Kurt is correct in that it does address this in the S/B but we discussed this some years ago here and I'm pretty sure the consensus was that if the square head of the tie-bolt was correctly seated in the front crossmember, there would be little chance that a squirt of oil would seep past the bolt head without running off the top of the crossmember. Additionally, if the spring pack was firmly seated against the bottom-side of the crossmember, the oil would likely find difficulty in entering into that area too. Then as I recall it was discussed that for the oil to effectively lube the crossmember to avoid a squeak, it would need to do that in the fore and aft areas of the spring, which if the oil did find its way onto the upper leaf, it would likely flow along the top of the spring to the left and right never reaching the crossmember walls. It is my belief this advisory sounded great in theory but had little practical application in the real-world. I am going to be at the archives in a few weeks and I may look at the A-5461 prints and then lookup the Engineer's notes on why that hole was added.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

--- from page 359 of the service bulletins...

[shew01]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I apologize if I insinuated that you were acting foolishly as that was not my intent or the reason for posting that.

No offense taken. I genuinely am trying to learn, and this forum has been my best resource yet. Thanks again for the help.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by shew01

No offense taken. I genuinely am trying to learn, and this forum has been my best resource yet. Thanks again for the help.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, this forum is way more informed and has much better (searchable) info than what you find on social media Model-A sites, that for sure!!

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I am going to be at the archives in a few weeks

Can you start a thread called "I'm going to be at the archives in a few weeks" and then we can just send you unsolicited requests for things to look up for us?

[rotorwrench]

Most folks that go to the Bensen Ford Research center are usually looking for references for books they want to write. DavidG on the V8 board has spent some time there but I think it was more convenient for him in location. His research was on the 1932 models among others. If I lived near Detroit, I'd certainly haunt them a time or two. The folks there will find information for people if they give them a specific request. There is a lot of stuff on line that can be accessed too.

Even with an oil hole there, the oil would be limited on how far it could go or what it could do to lubricate anything. Getting oil between the top leaf and the cross member would be about it. A person could do more by spraying the spring with oil on the front & rear sides where accessible.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by alexiskai

Can you start a thread called "I'm going to be at the archives in a few weeks" and then we can just send you unsolicited requests for things to look up for us?

……….…….

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Most folks that go to the Bensen Ford Research center are usually looking for references for books they want to write. DavidG on the V8 board has spent some time there but I think it was more convenient for him in location. His research was on the 1932 models among others. If I lived near Detroit, I'd certainly haunt them a time or two. The folks there will find information for people if they give them a specific request. There is a lot of stuff on line that can be accessed too.

Even with an oil hole there, the oil would be limited on how far it could go or what it could do to lubricate anything. Getting oil between the top leaf and the cross member would be about it. A person could do more by spraying the spring with oil on the front & rear sides where accessible.

I think that was the general consensus when this was pitched probably a decade or two ago here. Even the illustration in the S/B would be difficult to duplicate in that location with the shell still in position. As I recall, the only argument that was made in favor of this actually being worthwhile was that the Model-T along with the B & 18 models apparently used a leather pad between the bottom side of the crossmember and the top leaf of the spring. The 'A' did not use any type pad in this area. With two properly torqued u-bolts, using lube would be moot as that area should not have any movement inboard of the two u-bolts to cause a squeak.
.
.

[ericr]

like you I always wondered what the efficacy of this procedure would actually be. if you read the contemporary materials, it seems that the Company was very sensitive to
squeaks, rattles, etc. someone must have convinced the Company that this point was a source of noise.


I think I wrote you once before, pondering the level of noise that these cars could have had when new and you said, come on down and I'll show you how quiet a properly-restored car rides.

[rotorwrench]

These old style frames & members bend and twist no matter how tight the bolts are. This can lead to fretting corrosion in a lot of areas. Now days I use silver or nickel base anti seize on areas where a lot of fretting can happen. Back in the post war days it would likely be slip plate and that would still be of use today. No lubricant scheme lasts forever even an oily piece of leather or cotton duck webbing. As it deteriorates, it leaves the clamp up a bit on the loose side. No loosness is a good thing.