Model T Racing Thread

[t-head]

I thought I would try to start a T racing thread as it is very easy to add pictures into the discussion on a thread. The Model T in racing went on to incredible heights in part because of Henrys lightweight design and the use of strong vanadium steel and the clever speed equipment manufacturers.

It won the Pikes Peak Hill Climb in 1922 and finished 5th at Indy in the 20's. There was an incredible assortment of racing equipment manufactured that even went as far as turning a T ford engine into a 16 valve DOHC engine.

So lets try to keep this thread focused on old T racing photos along with copies of speed equipment catalogs and the like, T speedster photos and information are also welcome. I do not mean to take away from the speedster social group but think this would be an easier way for us to add photos and keep the discussion going daily. Welcome to all of you, lets try to turn this into something special.

I am going to start out with a David versus Goliath photo. Noel Bullock drove his Model T Ford dirt track racer to Pikes Peak in 1922 to enter the hill climb. Everyone there laughed at him and his beat up little Ford. He persisted and was finally able to enter his home built special. Noel went on to prove them all wrong and went on to win the Hill Climb!!!!! The following year they established a minimum weight so that the big boys would not be embarrassed by a mere little Ford again.

[Roadster62]

This sounds like a great thread, hope to meet some new T Speed Equipment and race car collectors. I've always thought it would be nice to have an original T race car, they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO rare. This is a section from a Morton & Brett flyer, one of my favorites because of the green ink used on the body illustrations. Nice body for $125.00 or $90.00 if you were a dealer.

[Roadster62]

Have you read the disputed T bill thread? This one beats it! Ficher & Jacobs was THE place to have a T race car built in Phidelphia in the 1920's. this bill is for work on RAJO powered #24 owned by H.D.Carpenter. I totaled the itemized bill items and got a total of $142.89........they got $224.44 plus a balance if $293.00, for a total of $517.44. Racing was never cheap.

[s1b]

Very cool, I will follow this thread!

[Layden B]

No marking on them and I have never seen an ad for this type either. They use 1926-27 Model T rear wheel cams and levers and shoes and drums.
They are not McNearny ( made in San Francisco and external contracting) nor are they the set on page 174 of the book " Model T Ford in Speed and Sport".

[t-head]

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Jeff.... I think I have read were the T that finished 5th at Indy was lapping somewhere in the 80 + MPH range. It think a really well built car with a good racing overhead might be able to hit 90-100 MPH on a mile track?

Most of the races that T's ran in were fairgrounds dirt oval short sprints 25, 50 miles at the most. Although I am sure there were some longer ones. If they did not have a special racing crankshaft odds are the crank would break in a long race. Some racers were know to but in a new crankshaft every week as an insurance policy.

Maybe Spatz was using his four wheel brakes to go into the corners faster than others as he had more braking power which may have given him a quicker lap time?

Does anyone else has any references to speeds at some of the 1/4, 1/2, and mile tracks?

[T-Time]

Originally Posted by t-head

Jeff.... I think I have read were the T that finished 5th at Indy was lapping somewhere in the 80 + MPH range. It think a really well built car with a good racing overhead might be able to hit 90-100 MPH on a mile track?

[...]

Does anyone else has any references to speeds at some of the 1/4, 1/2, and mile tracks?

If I recall correctly, according to The Dust And The Glory, A Racing History By Leo Levine, Winfield [Ed or Bud?] was running over 130 mph in his flat headed T engine powered racer. I think that was the legendary "two-up, two-down engine". I don't know what length track that was on...but the book may say. I don't have a copy of it anymore.

[t-head]

Originally Posted by T-Time

If I recall correctly, according to The Dust And The Glory, A Racing History By Leo Levine, Winfield was running over 130 mph in his flat headed T engine powered racer. I don't know what length track that was on...but the book may say. I don't have a copy of it anymore.

Thanks for the info......In posting the Rajo head info yesterday I ran into a reference from the Rajo Co. of cars with their BBR heads being capable of 100MPH.

Winfield's car with his incredible flathead was probably he fastest T at the time or ever on an oval, I do know that he raced at Ascot a lot but I don't think the track was long enough to get up to that speed. I will look around and see what I can find.

[SUHRsc]

Here are a few photos of my BB-R Rajo for inclusion with the paperwork posted by T-head.
In the photo also is a Stutz-Delco dual ignition to fire the 8 spark plugs.

[Roadster62]

These may be from an early (1930's) Midget race car. The wheels on the early cars were made by welding a 12 inch rim to a 1926-27 T brake drum. The six bolt hub pattern for the T wood wheel then became the standard for all Midget wheels to follow.

[t-head]

I just found an article where Winfield states he was on his way to a race in Bakersfield coming down off of the Grapevine and he states that he opened it up and was doing 130 and in his words "without exaggerating anything" for a minute or so. A cop and a friend were after him and he slowed down and it took them a long time to catch up. The cop knew he was on his way to a race so he let him go with a warning.

So in his words he told us how fast his car could go. My question is I believe that it is all down hill on the Grapevine into Bakersfield, could he have been going down hill at the time? Can anyone fill us in on that road at the time?

[Roadster62]

The original Winfield engine does exist, and a very nice clone of the car was built by Pete Eastwood, wonder if they've tested it yet?

[t-head]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

The original Winfield engine does exist, and a very nice clone of the car was built by Pete Eastwood, wonder if they've tested it yet?

The engine was test run first and then installed in the car. The owner ran the car at the Monterey Historic races and afterward said that it is faster than many other cars of the era including some of the exotic foreign cars. He told me last winter that it is unbelievably fast.

[Roadster62]

Do a HAMB search and a feature will pop up. I really like the looks of this car. Bobtails always looked neat to me.

[t-head]

For those of you that have not seen them before, these are photos of Winfield's 2-up 2-down engine. He built a special crank to change the firing order so that he could get a better charge into each cylinder. With the standard firing order the second cylinder in the order would get a weak charge.

Also note the cam that he made and the roller lifters. The third photo shows the original crank which was replaced due to cracks. The last photo shows the original car and Ed Winfield.

[t-head]

...

[t-head]

More photos of Winfield and his famous engine.

[t-head]

PART 1 Machining your own Valve guides.

Zach (SUHRsc) Posted a question on a different thread in the new Ford Barn T section but it may help some of you here with overheads. The valve guides for his BBR Rajo Head are missing and he needs to know what to do for new valve guides.

I decided to post it here on the racing thread as it will be easier to find later and really only applies to overheads as a stock T the guides are part of the block.

I would use cast iron, I machine my own if I cannot find something to adapt that will fit. Then get your valve stems hard chromed because if the stems are stainless you may have gauling and sticking. Send them to http://www.calvalves.com/ they will do a good job or have a local plating shop do them for you. You only need .0005 - 1/2 of a thousandth of chrome. The second photo shows a valve that a local plating shop masked the head of of and plated for me. The rough spot at the end of the plating needs to be smoothed off before using it, photo 2.

Ream the guides for .003"- .004" exhausts and .002" for the intakes. If you have a good machine shop near by you can get a better and smoother surface by having the id if the guide honed out the last .002 or so. Set up this way they will work very well with little to no oil. The graphite in the cast iron will help along with whatever oil you can put on them.

I generaly finish off the OD of the guide where it sits in the head 1/2 thousandth- .0005 bigger than the bore in the head for a good tight fit which will also transfer the heat better.

I have used this on a lot of T-Head and L-Heads (like an early T with exposed valves) with exposed valves which get no oil and it will work beautifully. The photo shows a new guide machined here on the lathe along with an original one. A piece of cast iron bar and a reamer.

This is what is being done in modern cars and trucks as the modern valve guide seals keep almost all of the oil out for emissions purposes. This is the only way that really holds up well unless a seal that meters just the right amount of oil is used, then bronze might work.

Zach you can get cast iron from Mc Master-Carr. They have everything under the sun and more. They also have a great website.... here is a link for the cast Iron...... http://www.mcmaster.com/#iron-rods/=7csahk

[t-head]

PART 2 Machining you own valve guides.

Before I start I might add that this is not the only way to do this but it is a way that I have found over the years to work out well. You end up with a new guide in which the OD of the guide is perfectly parallel to the the bore of the guide which is important so that it ends up concentric with the valve seat.

To do this right you are going to need a good lathe with an adjustable chuck or precision collets so when you flip the guide over to drill the other side you can set up the guide to run true again with .001.

You are also going to need a good set of centers that run dead true for the head and tail stocks. Check them with an indicator to make sure as the area of the OD of the guide that registers in the head gets machined off of centers which if you take your time and do it correctly will result it perfect alignment.

I first set up and turn the OD of the stock straight and true to give me a good set up that I can check with a dial indicator for each operation on each end of the guide.

Then I cut them to length in the lathe. Next set up a blank and indicate the OD and get it true then face off the end (this is the point the photos start at). Then center drill it carefully with a good center drill, photo 1. Next I use an undersize screw machine drill because they are shorter and will walk or deflect less than a standard length drill, photo 2. Drill in a little more than half the length you need and stop. Do one side of all the guides this way and take your time and don't force the drill and make sure it is sharpened correctly or buy high quality news ones which should drill fairly straight.

Then turn the guides around, indicate them and get then + - .001 and face the second end then repeat the procedure from the first side. After drilling thru and meeting the other side in the same set up drill all the way thru with a drill that is larger than the short drill but about .010 smaller than your reamer size, photo 3. By doing it this way if you were careful with all your set ups and used correctly sharpened drills you should end up with a good straight hole. Then in the same set up ream to your finish size or smaller if you are going to hone them, photo 4.

The OD of both ends and the middle can then be machined in a good chuck or collet but leave the area where the guide registers in the head oversized about .020.

After you have the ends machined to the shape that you need, put good centers in the head and tail stocks and indicate them to make sure they are true. Then set your guide between centers and finish off the .020 you left to clean up before on this area and you will end up with a very nice and true guide.

Photo 5 shows an old valve guide on a Sunnen honing machine to show you how the machine works. Its gives a much better finish than can be done with a reamer and the last photo shows the mandrel and stone which does the finishing in an oil bath.

[SUHRsc]

Thank you very much for posting this, T-head... it will be a huge help!
Zach