When is Model A Car or Truck classified has Restored or Unrestored?

[MikeK]

I just looked at an A for someone yesterday. The owner had hundreds of pictures showing a 'frame-off' job two years ago. That certainly negates any 'unrestored' status. Unfortunately, looking in person at what was done, seeing many wrong-year and repop parts, and great workmanship but to a non-stock quality (some parts 'over'), the car is far from 'restored'.

To me, 'restored' is the application of the fountain of youth. Back to what was when young. Not better, not worse, not different. Simply as it was. Sending grandma for a bunch of plastic surgery, cosmetic dentistry, and a make-over may clean the old gal up a bunch, but it certainly is not the treatment Ponce de Leon sought.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Oh boy. Big can of worms...

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (online):

( I feel the third definition, which I have taken the liberty of putting in bold-face, applies. )

restore

Pronunciation: /rɪˈstɔː/


Translate restore | into French | into German | into Italian | into SpanishDefinition of restore
verb


[with object]

• bring back or re-establish (a previous right, practice, or situation):the government restored confidence in the housing market order was eventually restored by riot police
• return (someone or something) to a former condition, place, or position:the effort to restore him to office isn’t working
• repair or renovate (a building, work of art, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition:the building has been lovingly restored
• give (something stolen, taken away, or lost) back to the original owner or recipient:the government will restore land to those who lost it through confiscation

Derivatives

restorable



adjective restorer



noun
Origin:

Middle English: from Old French restorer, from Latin restaurare 'rebuild, restore'

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/def...tore?q=Restore


"Return to its original condition".

As it left the assembly plant in 1927-'31.

Going strictly by the textbook defintion, truly "restored" A's are in the relative minority.

To me, "un-restored", means a car that has never had anything but routine maintenance ( or lack there-of), and largely exists in its as-built state, possibly showing the effects of time and usage.

My own 1928 Ford 49-A Special Coupe is not an un-touched survivor, nor is it restored... probably the most accurate description would be a "fixed-up field-rescue"... the running-gear is "un-restored", but very tired, the body had had some rust-repair pieces put-in. but minimal filler, rattle-can paint, new top but wrong material, etc.

You might want to visit the AACA website and check-out their guidelines for determining elegibilty for the HPOF class: Historic Preservation of Original Features.

In the real world, you'll get as many variations as people you ask.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

As it left the assembly plant in 1927-'31.

Going strictly by the textbook defintion, truly "restored" A's are in the relative minority.

To me, "un-restored", means a car that has never had anything but routine maintenance ( or lack there-of), and largely exists in its as-built state, possibly showing the effects of time and usage.

Yes, ...sadly that is a very true statement.

What I guess makes this so controvercial is the "justifications" hobbyists give these days for making these modifications. I know that growing up, both of the Model A clubs used to have a mission statement that they were to promote the 1928-1931 Ford Model A as they were originally manufactured yet often times back then owners just didn't know any better when they restored their cars. Today, things are kinda different in that they call their Model-A restored yet knowingly have installed hydraulic brakes, overdrive transmissions, air conditioning, F100 steering boxes, 16" wheels, 12 volt electrical, alternators, etc. ...yet still feel they should have their Model-A accepted as a "restored" Model-A.


.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Yes, ...sadly that is a very true statement.

What I guess makes this so controvercial is the "justifications" hobbyists give these days for making these modifications. I know that growing up, both of the Model A clubs used to have a mission statement that they were to promote the 1928-1931 Ford Model A as they were originally manufactured yet often times back then owners just didn't know any better when they restored their cars. Today, things are kinda different in that they call their Model-A restored yet knowingly have installed hydraulic brakes, overdrive transmissions, air conditioning, F100 steering boxes, 16" wheels, 12 volt electrical, alternators, etc. ...yet still feel they should have their Model-A accepted as a "resto
.

How true that is !!.. I agree 100% !!

[kelley's restoration]

i feel a restored car is a nuts and bolt complete resto
i have only seen a few cars that i would classify as original. one of which we redid the brakes on and sent it down the road with the original owners son. so since we redid the brakes is it not original anymore???? i think that its all in the eye of the beholder
tk

[Chris in WNC]

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extremely subjective term.

our Coupe received MARC of Originality award in 1987, despite being repainted in the '70s.

during our ownership we have replaced the roof fabric and powder coated the wheels so I doubt if it could qualify for that award even though the paint is ratty enough to appear original to a non-Model A observer and the original interior is still very serviceable.

ask 10 people at a car show and you'll get 15 different definitions.......

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

extremely subjective term.

ask 10 people at a car show and you'll get 15 different definitions.......

So very true!

When someone says restored, restored to what? Is it restored to what the outline of the car originally looked like. Restored using only parts available during ther year of manufacture? Restored using reproduction parts that have close form and function as originally built.

I feel there is no right or wrong answer to this question with the exception of original, I feel that there is only one definition of original, something with untouched parts except for parts designed to be replaced at intervals such as tires, oil, grease, air, brake pads, water in radiator etc. I think it would be hard to arque that with a straight face.

[ctlikon0712]

Many of the cars that I see today are Restified!

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

I like the term "a 20' restoration".

If you don't get any closer than 20', it looks like it did when it came from the factory.

[Chris in WNC]

Originally Posted by BillLee/Chandler, TX

I like the term "a 20' restoration".

If you don't get any closer than 20', it looks like it did when it came from the factory.

I prefer a 10-foot restoration......a little more attention to detail ;-)

[Mitch//pa]

how bout a 50'er

[Randy in Illinois]

My opinion: is a restored car is a nut and bolt restoration to return the car back to the way it came out of the factory. a preservervation: is a car that only had repairs done as necessary over the years. including paint, but not to remove the cars original patina. ie: small dents, minor wear and tear of parts that are no longer as new condition. Ask 50 people and get 50 different answers. Original cars are just that: Original and untouched as they came from the factory/ dealer at the time.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Yep Mitch, ...that might be getting close to confirming that comment in Post 16!!


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[ronn]

To me an unrestored car is one that has not been "messed" with. Not many of those around....
Once the dents are removed, painted, upholstered, etc. it is somewhat restored no matter how you slice the pie. Even an Earl Shieb paint job is a restoration of sorts....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ronn

To me an unrestored car is one that has not been "messed" with. Not many of those around....
Once the dents are removed, painted, upholstered, etc. it is somewhat restored no matter how you slice the pie. Even an Earl Shieb paint job is a restoration of sorts....

Do you think the word "Refurbished" might fit that description a little closer?

(I tend to think of the words restore and refurbish as having two different meanings.)

.

[dkn829]

How does "out of the barn" fit into the discussion?

[ronn]

Brent, point well taken.
However, original doesn't come close to either of those terms in my book.

[SkimmerBob]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

how bout a 50"er

Do you mean she's 4 foot 2 inches?

[Fred]

Ok, I have just the very car that fits into the original question that I am going to sell very soon.. It is the one pictured here, it has won the Best In Show Henry Award 1988, A master restoration award, & to this day only has 700 miles on it from then.. See the Cover of the Restorer May/June 1990 Vol.35 Issue #1 for story on car.. All interior, top & side curtain work done by Bill Sturm..Top has never been down, all is as day done..It was restored with ALL NOS fenders & running boards & many-many other NOS & Original restored parts...Still has the Original 3X plugs in it !!.. Oh, How many do you find today with an Original wiring Harness still being used ??..I dont think you could restore one today for what I will be asking for it... What class would you call this one in ??...

[quickchange]

I beleive the judging standards say must have 50% original paint & 50% original uphostry, to enter original class, Fred you are restored class , blue ribbon ,