The Ford Barn

Shoebox · 12-30-2021, 07:49 PM

As I continue to collect all driveline components needed to complete my 6 cyl to 8 cyl conversion of my '51 Tudor,... I come to clutch selection. The .080 over, 4" stroke, Offy heads, Isky 1007B and 2 97's engine, 3spd w/ OD and stock 15" wheels. It appears 9.5" and 10" were used, with Long style pressure plates. I see that Speedways '49-'53 flywheel is drilled for 10" and 10.5" only. I have usually preferred diaphragm pressure plates. SO,....what are the comments, recommendations, on what way to go?

paul2748 · 12-30-2021, 08:16 PM

Look up Centerforce. They should have something for you. diaphragm clutches. I have one in my 54 Ford (312) and it has given me good service.

You may have to look up by diameter, tooth count on the input shaft and input shaft size.

Shoebox · 12-30-2021, 08:51 PM

Paul,
Thanks for the response, have used Centerforce in another make shoebox with a 454 and love it, just didn't think of them for flatheads, will explore.

Still looking for input regarding clutch size, ie: 9.5", 10.0", etc.

drolston · 12-30-2021, 10:10 PM

The 10" Long clutch should work fine, if you get good quality components.

Ford Freak · 12-31-2021, 08:34 AM

I got mine from Ft.Wayne Clutch, as many guys on here recomended them. It has been completely trouble-free. I am sure that Mac VanPelt has a high quality clutch, also.

tubman · 12-31-2021, 09:03 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I think you better stick with Van Pelt. Here is a thread I started on the H.A.M.B. about my recent experience with Fort Wayne Clutch : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...lutch.1242719/.

It seems things have changed.

V8 Bob · 12-31-2021, 10:18 AM

Switching to a diaphragm pressure plate is a much better choice than staying with the old and obsolete Long, which Ford stopped using back in the '70s. A good clutch re-builder should be able to match your Long's finger height with a production diaphragm, or shop the aftermarket. There are even some diaphragms that have the same bolt patterns as Longs instead of the common evenly spaced pattern like the Merc Borg & Becks.
Advantages are lower cost, lower pedal efforts and availability.

Shoebox · 12-31-2021, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I think you better stick with Van Pelt. Here is a thread I started on the H.A.M.B. about my recent experience with Fort Wayne Clutch : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...lutch.1242719/.

It seems things have changed.

Wow,......... Van Pelt it is.

Ford Freak · 12-31-2021, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubman

I think you better stick with Van Pelt. Here is a thread I started on the H.A.M.B. about my recent experience with Fort Wayne Clutch : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...lutch.1242719/.

It seems things have changed.

Yes, now I remember reading about the changes @ Fort Wayne.
Not for the better, thats for sure! I got mine from them 6 yrs. ago.
It's a shame! - F F

rotorwrench · 12-31-2021, 11:54 AM

I would like to hear more from folks about Ft Wayne clutch before forming an opinion on one hear say event. I've had several clutches rebuild by them and the turn around was quicker than I thought it would be. The products functioned normally. Now if a person is calling a company after a long period about a core, they would likely get an answer like that. I send my stuff to them and they rebuild it. There are no new equivalents to what I send them. Most rebuilders either charge you a core or they request a core be sent to them first before they act. This is the way I would do business. Wanting return on a core charge well after the fact is not a good customer relations action. I've done business with some rebuilders that would tell me up front that the core has to be received withing 30-days after the transaction. If it's not then the core charge is forfeit. To this day, I've not had any problems with Ft Wayne Clutch.

If a person wants a new clutch of the Long style in either 9" or 10" then they will likely receive a new off shore produced product which would not require a core charge. If they have an old original Long type with adjustable fingers then they should send it to get it rebuilt. They don't make them like this any more.

I've heard of folks using a mid 70s GM clutch with a diaphragm design (Borg & Beck style bolt pattern). As was mentioned, the diaphragms can be replaced with the long finger versions that will work with the old type throw out bearings. A person just has to call the rebuilder and see if they can do it or not then describe what is wanted to a T so there is no confusion. It can be done. Otherwise, just order the Centerforce stuff but be certain it will work for your application. The 8BA family of engines normally use the 9.5" Long type and they have the small 1-inch 10-spline input. I'm not sure if any of the 9.5" diaphragm types have a similar pattern so expect to modify the flywheel for a 10" even spaced one or purchase one of the new high dollar flywheels.

1948F-1Pickup · 12-31-2021, 12:21 PM

I just gave a Fort Wayne 10" setup to H&H for my F1's flathead..... only to find out that's also who they use. I guess we're going to find out about Fort Wayne clutch.
During my clutch "due diligence" stage, I also spoke to the local clutch builder/rebuilder who is a pretty big name in the business. They offer both the Long and the diaphragm style. I was told that they are merely taking an "off the shelf" style diaphragm pressure plate and machining the fingers shorter to work with the big input shaft/bearing collar of the 3 speed toploader.

V8 Bob · 12-31-2021, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1948F-1Pickup

....I was told that they are merely taking an "off the shelf" style diaphragm pressure plate and machining the fingers shorter to work with the big input shaft/bearing collar of the 3 speed toploader.

That may be what they do, but there are two diaphragm finger styles; bent finger for small T/O bearings and straight finger for the large T/Os. It would be better to use the correct plate rather than a modified one, imo.

Tim Ayers · 12-31-2021, 04:49 PM

I am using a Centerforce diaphragm PP and clutch disk. The clutch is rated for 400 hp, so I should be good. LOL!

tubman · 12-31-2021, 06:33 PM

RE : Fort Wayne Clutch, "rotorwrench" may have a point; but the account of my conversation with them is the truth. All I am saying is that when you deal with them these days, make sure of what you are getting. The guy I talked to seemed to be genuinely disappointed with the whole situation.

As Phil Esterhaus used to say on "Hill Street Blues" : "Be careful out there".

Gene1949 · 01-01-2022, 08:55 AM

On my 8BA I use the 10" duel friction from Centerforce. Had it "drop shipped" and ordered it thru JEGS on sale. Exact same clutch type (duel friction) and PP I Use in my '69 BBC Camaro. In both rigs probably the smoothest and easiest on old knees clutch I've ever owned.

Complete package included flywheel and shipped with the hardware (Clutch bolts and spline tool)..
Had to use the "original" flywheel bolts.

By the time I would have had my old flywheel resurfaced (plus shipping and handling) AND a questionable rebuild on 20 year old technology it penciled out as a no brainer.

Shoebox · 01-01-2022, 11:02 AM

Tim & Gene,
If possible, PLEASE share the specifics of all the parts (part #s ?) of the Centerforce parts that you received. Thanks !

Ray Balukas · 01-01-2022, 11:35 AM

Not sure if he is still at FT Wayne Clutch but ask for Kerry. This was whom Walt Dupont said to ask for. He knows his stuff. Ray

1948F-1Pickup · 01-01-2022, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

That may be what they do, but there are two diaphragm finger styles; bent finger for small T/O bearings and straight finger for the large T/Os. It would be better to use the correct plate rather than a modified one, imo.

They're using a straight finger PP.
We're talking about Clutch Masters. "They" have been doing clutches in their present location since 2002 and the engineering personnel in the business
much longer than that.
I used to sell them throw out bearings when I was with NTN and trust them with about the same level of confidence as I have in Fort Wayne Clutch.
I went with Fort Wayne mainly because they paid a core on my old clutch and free shipping.

Tim Ayers · 01-01-2022, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox

Tim & Gene,
If possible, PLEASE share the specifics of all the parts (part #s ?) of the Centerforce parts that you received. Thanks !

Shoebox,

I went to my records and I didn't write down the part number down. Sorry.

Although, when I did purchase it, I called Centerforce and found their tech line very helpful. The gentleman knew exactly what part number and clutch disc I needed and confirmed it was for the larger output shaft for the '39 trans and I was using the large OEM style throw out bearing.

Ross F-1 · 01-01-2022, 03:12 PM

I bought a Reman 10" Long PP from Ft Wayne last year, and it was an old-style with adjustable fingers. Maybe it is their New clutches that are Hecho in China? I have to wonder where MacVP's clutches are sourced, I'd bet the same place Ft W's new clutches are. Side note, Mac's "oilite" pilot bushings are magnetic, appear to be cast iron. Surely Chinese.

1948F-1, I see nothing on Clutch Masters website for flatheads, do you have a p/n for the diaphragm PP?

12-30-2021, 07:49 PM	#1
Shoebox Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Holmen,Wisconsin Posts: 787	Thoughts on Clutch Selection As I continue to collect all driveline components needed to complete my 6 cyl to 8 cyl conversion of my '51 Tudor,... I come to clutch selection. The .080 over, 4" stroke, Offy heads, Isky 1007B and 2 97's engine, 3spd w/ OD and stock 15" wheels. It appears 9.5" and 10" were used, with Long style pressure plates. I see that Speedways '49-'53 flywheel is drilled for 10" and 10.5" only. I have usually preferred diaphragm pressure plates. SO,....what are the comments, recommendations, on what way to go? __________________ I went, I saw, I bought the T shirt 51 Ford Deluxe Tudor 32 Ford roadster 39 Mercury Towncar

12-30-2021, 08:16 PM	#2
paul2748 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midland Park, NJ Posts: 3,981	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Look up Centerforce. They should have something for you. diaphragm clutches. I have one in my 54 Ford (312) and it has given me good service. You may have to look up by diameter, tooth count on the input shaft and input shaft size. __________________ 48 Ford Conv 56 Tbird 54 Ford Victoria

12-30-2021, 08:51 PM	#3
Shoebox Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Holmen,Wisconsin Posts: 787	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Paul, Thanks for the response, have used Centerforce in another make shoebox with a 454 and love it, just didn't think of them for flatheads, will explore. Still looking for input regarding clutch size, ie: 9.5", 10.0", etc. __________________ I went, I saw, I bought the T shirt 51 Ford Deluxe Tudor 32 Ford roadster 39 Mercury Towncar Last edited by Shoebox; 12-30-2021 at 08:54 PM. Reason: Adding content

12-30-2021, 10:10 PM	#4
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,627	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection The 10" Long clutch should work fine, if you get good quality components.

12-31-2021, 08:34 AM	#5
Ford Freak Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Pittsford NY. USA Posts: 1,096	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection I got mine from Ft.Wayne Clutch, as many guys on here recomended them. It has been completely trouble-free. I am sure that Mac VanPelt has a high quality clutch, also. __________________ 1952 Ford F1 1965 Ford Falcon Sprint 2007 Ford Mustang GT

12-31-2021, 09:03 AM	#6
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I think you better stick with Van Pelt. Here is a thread I started on the H.A.M.B. about my recent experience with Fort Wayne Clutch : https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...lutch.1242719/. It seems things have changed.

12-31-2021, 10:18 AM	#7
V8 Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granger (Northern) Indiana Posts: 1,520	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Switching to a diaphragm pressure plate is a much better choice than staying with the old and obsolete Long, which Ford stopped using back in the '70s. A good clutch re-builder should be able to match your Long's finger height with a production diaphragm, or shop the aftermarket. There are even some diaphragms that have the same bolt patterns as Longs instead of the common evenly spaced pattern like the Merc Borg & Becks. Advantages are lower cost, lower pedal efforts and availability.

12-31-2021, 11:54 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection I would like to hear more from folks about Ft Wayne clutch before forming an opinion on one hear say event. I've had several clutches rebuild by them and the turn around was quicker than I thought it would be. The products functioned normally. Now if a person is calling a company after a long period about a core, they would likely get an answer like that. I send my stuff to them and they rebuild it. There are no new equivalents to what I send them. Most rebuilders either charge you a core or they request a core be sent to them first before they act. This is the way I would do business. Wanting return on a core charge well after the fact is not a good customer relations action. I've done business with some rebuilders that would tell me up front that the core has to be received withing 30-days after the transaction. If it's not then the core charge is forfeit. To this day, I've not had any problems with Ft Wayne Clutch. If a person wants a new clutch of the Long style in either 9" or 10" then they will likely receive a new off shore produced product which would not require a core charge. If they have an old original Long type with adjustable fingers then they should send it to get it rebuilt. They don't make them like this any more. I've heard of folks using a mid 70s GM clutch with a diaphragm design (Borg & Beck style bolt pattern). As was mentioned, the diaphragms can be replaced with the long finger versions that will work with the old type throw out bearings. A person just has to call the rebuilder and see if they can do it or not then describe what is wanted to a T so there is no confusion. It can be done. Otherwise, just order the Centerforce stuff but be certain it will work for your application. The 8BA family of engines normally use the 9.5" Long type and they have the small 1-inch 10-spline input. I'm not sure if any of the 9.5" diaphragm types have a similar pattern so expect to modify the flywheel for a 10" even spaced one or purchase one of the new high dollar flywheels. Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-31-2021 at 12:01 PM.

12-31-2021, 12:21 PM	#11
1948F-1Pickup Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Socal Posts: 795	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection I just gave a Fort Wayne 10" setup to H&H for my F1's flathead..... only to find out that's also who they use. I guess we're going to find out about Fort Wayne clutch. During my clutch "due diligence" stage, I also spoke to the local clutch builder/rebuilder who is a pretty big name in the business. They offer both the Long and the diaphragm style. I was told that they are merely taking an "off the shelf" style diaphragm pressure plate and machining the fingers shorter to work with the big input shaft/bearing collar of the 3 speed toploader.

12-31-2021, 04:49 PM	#13
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,177	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection I am using a Centerforce diaphragm PP and clutch disk. The clutch is rated for 400 hp, so I should be good. LOL!

12-31-2021, 06:33 PM	#14
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection RE : Fort Wayne Clutch, "rotorwrench" may have a point; but the account of my conversation with them is the truth. All I am saying is that when you deal with them these days, make sure of what you are getting. The guy I talked to seemed to be genuinely disappointed with the whole situation. As Phil Esterhaus used to say on "Hill Street Blues" : "Be careful out there".

01-01-2022, 08:55 AM	#15
Gene1949 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Pahrump, NV Posts: 373	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection On my 8BA I use the 10" duel friction from Centerforce. Had it "drop shipped" and ordered it thru JEGS on sale. Exact same clutch type (duel friction) and PP I Use in my '69 BBC Camaro. In both rigs probably the smoothest and easiest on old knees clutch I've ever owned. Complete package included flywheel and shipped with the hardware (Clutch bolts and spline tool).. Had to use the "original" flywheel bolts. By the time I would have had my old flywheel resurfaced (plus shipping and handling) AND a questionable rebuild on 20 year old technology it penciled out as a no brainer.

01-01-2022, 11:02 AM	#16
Shoebox Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Holmen,Wisconsin Posts: 787	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Tim & Gene, If possible, PLEASE share the specifics of all the parts (part #s ?) of the Centerforce parts that you received. Thanks ! __________________ I went, I saw, I bought the T shirt 51 Ford Deluxe Tudor 32 Ford roadster 39 Mercury Towncar

01-01-2022, 11:35 AM	#17
Ray Balukas Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Deerfield N.H. Posts: 294	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection Not sure if he is still at FT Wayne Clutch but ask for Kerry. This was whom Walt Dupont said to ask for. He knows his stuff. Ray

01-01-2022, 03:12 PM	#20
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,438	Re: Thoughts on Clutch Selection I bought a Reman 10" Long PP from Ft Wayne last year, and it was an old-style with adjustable fingers. Maybe it is their New clutches that are Hecho in China? I have to wonder where MacVP's clutches are sourced, I'd bet the same place Ft W's new clutches are. Side note, Mac's "oilite" pilot bushings are magnetic, appear to be cast iron. Surely Chinese. 1948F-1, I see nothing on Clutch Masters website for flatheads, do you have a p/n for the diaphragm PP? __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead