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Old 08-09-2020, 03:07 PM   #1
vincent
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Default Need your advice for new engine

Hello folks
I bought a 34 Sedan recently with still the original engine/gearbox/differential. With somer help from you I got the thing to run as good as it can and reached a genuine 100km/h on a test run but there is not much more speed available due to not enough power output. This little engine will need a lot of work to be ever able to cruise at 65 mph and 2500 revs.(I doubt it can do it)The gearbox became very noisy in first and second gear recently, the clutch will need renewal as well and the motor has a ticking noise when hot and uses a lot of oil. I realized that it will take a lot of money to rebuild all this stuff and I will still end up with a lowish power output from that "small" 3,6 ltr engine. I need more cubics and more power as I plan to pull a small trailer with my motorcycle now and then.
So now I am looking for an engine with at least 4,2 ltrs, a gearbox with full synchronizing and better spaced gearing (would love a 4-speeder if there is anything available). I can even change the rear axle to something else with an open kardan if a better gearbox would need this done. But if possible I would like to keep the stock axle to stay within the "historic" rules here in Germany.
Of course I can rebuild the differential with higher gearing to lower the revs but I need more torque to pull a trailer / cruise at 2500 at 65 mph.
If anyone has a suitable engine for me and a set of gears or a complete box, I am very interested.
Due to me being in Germany it will need some arrangements to get stuff over here but I can make it happen. So what would be a good combination for my use? 59ab or 8ba or what else? I would really like to buy a good and trusty engine with a lot of torque, accompanied by a sweet shifting gearbox as all the work and parts needed for my heap will add up quickly and use up a lot of my sparetime as well.
Thank you for all suggestions!
cheers, Harty
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:51 PM   #2
JSeery
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

You can install a T5 transmission, I would use close ratio gearing [2.95 1st gear). There are several threads here on the barn on using a T5 with the original torque tube rear end.
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

"Lawrie" in Australia uses just about this same setup and pulls a "Caravan" (camping trailer to us US guys) all over the place. I think there is still something wrong with your engine, because it should turn a lot more than 2500 RPM. The basically stock Merc in my '51 will turn 2700-2800 RPM comfortably all day long. It will run easily up to 4000 RPM and even beyond that (but then all it does is make more noise). That fact that you say "the engine uses a lot of oil"; from what I see, there is no easy solution (rear gears or a different transmission) that will solve your problem. I think the engine and transmission will have to come out for a complete rebuild.

Sorry.
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Old 08-09-2020, 06:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

How do you intend to stop at 65mph with a trailer? You do have things to consider...
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Old 08-10-2020, 02:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

The engine does rev well beyond of what is good for it, it is well over 4000 revs at 60 mph.(no fan so I can hear the engine very well) Tubman describes exactly what I feel/hear: no more power but a lot of noise. I know the engine is tired and I know it is undergeared and I know that I will sink a lot of money and time into this engine without achieving what I would like as more cubics would give more grunt. Of course this engine has to come out and needs a complete overhaul but I would like to replace it with a bigger brother of the family. My daily business for the last 30 years is repairing/restoring classic british bikes, mainly Nortons and Vincents. I rebuilt double engined Vincent motors for the Max Lambky streamliner that I raced for ten years on the Bonneville salt flats so I guess there is a bit of knowledge about engines but of course not much about the variety of the early Ford V8īs so that is why I am here to ask all the gearheads. Having looked into the T5 thread I realized there is a lot of modification to the frame that I would like to avoid. I would like to cruise at around 65mph with a low-revving engine so thats where it should have around 2500 revs in high gear. Advice how to make this small engine a reliable "screamer" is not what I asked for. Also I want to get away from the babitt bearings, unfortunately the 34 Model comes with this set-up. So my question is still: which engine is available with 4,2 ltrs or (modified) more and will be the best way to achieve what I want. At the moment there is a 59 ab and a french 8ba on offer - your advice? The 59ab is unknown internally but seems to run good, the french flat has heads off and looks good/usable what there is to see.
The car is converted to hydraulic brakes all around so a little more load and/or speed is possible.
cheers, Harty
PS: JSeery, you are in Wichita as well- do you know Max?

Last edited by vincent; 08-10-2020 at 02:51 AM.
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Old 08-10-2020, 03:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

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I certainly run my 34 babbit bearings, original drive train and everything else at 60 mph all day long with no problems ( and no screaming) and have done so for the last 6 years . I find I have plenty of power with the stock engine gearbox and drive train . It sounds like your car has had a hard life . Personally I would restore it to original but that's me. Others would install the engines you are looking at and that to is fine. Just making the point that restored correctly you may get the performance you seek from the engine .
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Old 08-10-2020, 03:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

Vincent, My advise to you is to sell that old car and get a vehicle with the characteristics you so desire....
There is a reason the 34 V8's were so preferred by the gangsters in the 30's, they were fast!!
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Old 08-10-2020, 10:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

While no expert, I have general flathead experience over the last 35 years or so. A lot of overhauls and switching the v8s from one year to another. The most straightforward way to get what you want may be to install an 8ba or 59 ab with a 4" stroke mercury crankshaft. From memory the 4 speed truck tranny was changed to a synchromesh type in 1953. This should bolt to an 8ba with the correct bell. I had that trans in a 53 f350. This MAY allow you to keep your frame stock. These trans are very robust and you'll never wear it out in a 34 car. A 59ab will look closer to original under the hood, but that French engine would be drawing me in. With the 4" crank they have great pulling power. I towed my tandem axle car trailer many times, hauling other wrecks home behind my '38 truck. Never changed the cable brakes, but went to 12 V for trailer brakes, which stopped the whole show on a dime. Just my $.02, and you'll have to research if that trans works for the application...edit: I know the 4 spd truck has a granny low first, making it essentially a 3 speed but that granny might make a higher rear axle ratio practical.
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Old 08-10-2020, 12:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by GB SISSON View Post
While no expert, I have general flathead experience over the last 35 years or so. A lot of overhauls and switching the v8s from one year to another. The most straightforward way to get what you want may be to install an 8ba or 59 ab with a 4" stroke mercury crankshaft. From memory the 4 speed truck tranny was changed to a synchromesh type in 1953. This should bolt to an 8ba with the correct bell. I had that trans in a 53 f350. This MAY allow you to keep your frame stock. These trans are very robust and you'll never wear it out in a 34 car. A 59ab will look closer to original under the hood, but that French engine would be drawing me in. With the 4" crank they have great pulling power. I towed my tandem axle car trailer many times, hauling other wrecks home behind my '38 truck. Never changed the cable brakes, but went to 12 V for trailer brakes, which stopped the whole show on a dime. Just my $.02, and you'll have to research if that trans works for the application...edit: I know the 4 spd truck has a granny low first, making it essentially a 3 speed but that granny might make a higher rear axle ratio practical.
Now this is good advice - really appreciate it! Thank you very much.
cheers, Harty
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Old 08-10-2020, 05:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

rpm = (mph x Rear End Ratio x 336) / Tire Diameter

Guessing some numbers, 4:11 rear axle and 28 inch dia tires.

rpm = (60 mph x 4.11 x 336) / 28 = 2,960

Don't see where you are getting the 4000 rpms from, might consider a better tach! Unless you are running very small tires or a rear axle lower than 4.11.

Even with a 4.56 rear axle ratio and 26 inch dia tires you are still only at 3,535 rpm at 60.

It is common to run 29 inch tires if you want to lower you rpms. So, that would work out to 2,857 with a 4.11 rear axle.
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Old 08-13-2020, 02:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

Got a Norton 19S for sale?
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Old 08-13-2020, 04:50 PM   #12
vincent
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Got a Norton 19S for sale?
Just found one for you - let me know. Mostly Norton and Vincent twins with the occasional Triumph and BSA in between.

Last edited by vincent; 08-14-2020 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 08-13-2020, 05:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

Our 33 ,as Tubman says pull our caravan all over Australia,(look at some of my posts)
It did that for some 1000,of klms with a stock 33 babbit main engine no drama, caravan weighs 760Kgs empty , has electric trailer brakes,
Now has a 99a engine with 4in scatt crank .040 over bore, stock 33 camshaft and inlet manifold and 97 carb, 3.78 rear gears, this has towed the caravan out to Ayers Rock and back, runs all day at 95Kph towing for days on end.
Stock transmission case with a 46 guts in.
will go way over 70 mph no drama.
What was the rear end ratio in your car.
Lawrie

Last edited by Lawrie; 08-14-2020 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 08-14-2020, 03:49 AM   #14
vincent
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Default Re: Need your advice for new engine

Will check rear end when I can repair the gearbox, mainshaft lost some teeth. Meanwhile I bought a french flathead, completely overhauled, still in the french army box. Does anyone know the ratios of that french gearbox that they used in the lorry with the 8ba engine? The make is Marmon. I canīt find any info on that. Someone told me they were straight cut gears - would be easy for me to make new gears then.
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