my 1925 tudor project thread

[fordman67]

O.K. so here goes. I an still a bit new to the Fordbarn but have begun to work on our newly aquired 25 tudor.If it is alright i will post pics as I go and ask questions when I need some help.I figured I would do this rather than have a bunch of threads and maybe help others along the way.

[fordman67]

This is when I went and picked it up....

[fordman67]

So I was pulling the drivers wheel off to prepare for pulling axle to check evreything out and pack wheel bearings etc. But I also noticed thatthe drivers wheels both on front and back do not match and are completly wrong.Anyone got any opinions on where they came from? I am thinking chevy? I will also be adding pics of engine removal and tear down.

[jackdaron]

They look like 21 inch to me. What is the problem. 21 inch ballon tires were introduced in 1925.

[fordman67]

Note the 1/4 inch gap between center and rim.there is not a gap on pass side.and pass have a diff shape to them and fit tight unlike these.also the tabs have been welded poorly on so that is not right either

[[email protected]]

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I guess the point should be whether the wheels are safe or not. For the sake of safety, don't second guess. If your uncomfortable with the way the rim fits on the wheel, to assure safety for you and your passengers, replace the questionable parts. I never try to save a buck when it comes to safety.

[Willie in Houston]

Some Chevy rims had the valve stem hole in a different position in relation to the lugs. The lugs may have been relocated to make the valve stem fit?? Look and see if there is signs of grinding on the rim in four spots. This might indicate where the lugs may have been.????????

[fordman67]

The gap around the inner rim in my opinion means that the outer diameter is soley supported on the bolts.Seems a bit scary..or am I making too much of it...I will seperate the two tonight and examine it better.

[CharlieB]

Nice car. The wheel pics aren't the clearest but the lugs look like they've been messed with. Swap the front tires and see how the other rim looks on that wheel.

[fordman67]

I am going to tear down both and examine more in depth.

I did get the front end torn down tonight.Whom ever did the king pins did not ream the bushings correctly nor faced them correctly.NO rust but they were so incredibly tight I liked to never got the pins out!

[Willie in Houston]

Don't get to far ahead on the disassembly. I find it is much easier to do a part at a time. By part, I mean front end, rear end, engine and reassemble after repaired.
With everything apart on the floor the job may look bigger than it really is. Also it can be a little easier on the wallet to do a little at a time. Just a thought, I have one car totally apart for over 20 years.

[Bubby Sharp in KY]

Fordman67 , Now is a good time to disasemble the front spring and lube between the leaves with lubriplate or graphite grease . You ought to replace the shackles and bushings if needed also. Bubby Sharp in KY

[fordman67]

Yes,I am doing this one project at a time as i can.But since I am waiting on engine stuff I am doing the front end and then after front I will tear into the rear to check out and replace those diff washers. also part of the front end is that I have a source of free powder coating so I am also having the front parts powdered at the same time.

It really is weird that I have never seen a set of shackles that was not just flat worn did they wear out in like 10 miles or what.AND tie rod ends are worn out but king pins were so tight I almost could not remove them.They must have been done.I am going to run the reamer through them tomorrow night.I bet they never were reamed in the first place.Also I pulled the fire wall and it will get powdered.

I disassembled the head lights and started on blasting them to get them painted.They are a different set than came on the car since original set had one that had a bolt welded on the bottom.

[fordman67]

Well fellas,It is getting hard to not get discouraged. I just cant touch anything on this thing that is not screwd up or worn out.

Inner wheel bearings bad after i looked at them and thought they were ok but then I cleaned in the solvent tank.AND nope.One was so worn out that the cage and rollers just fell apart after cleaning.

So then I pull rims off of the front centers.Well what a bunch of trash.One of the inners has lag screws run from the out sides into the spokes...thus splitting most spokes.GREAT! long story short I only need 3 rims and one center and tires and tubes just to get it back on rolling stock for the road...I really like this thing but my hopes of being able to drive it this coming spring and summer are pretty much out the window at this point..

[Great Lakes Greg]

Chassis parts are plentifull and easy to obtain. The biggest victim here may be your budget. You are still way ahead of the game with that clean sheet metal, so all is not lost. I have found that the restoration of the chassis components has been the most rewarding part of ownership. You KNOW it will be tight, clean, and safe, and you'll learn so much more about the car than if you just drove it.
I am looking forward to your continued progress.

[Richard Wilson]

Hang in there! After all it is an eighty-six year old USED car. I think you WILL be on the road by summer. As has already been said, break the restoration into small projects so that you will not get overwhelmed.

[fordman67]

Thanks guys! Sorry ,I will keep my head up.

Is there any reason to keep these 21s ? I keep seeing 30's
for sale in better condition I believe than mine.I also like the look
as they make for an older look. Or will the 21 baloons ride better?
I have plenty of experience w the 21s but never ridden in a 30 equipped T.

Hopefully also since my birthday is thurs so maybe there will be some supplemental income for a few parts....

I will also put up some more pics of engine tear down also today I hope.

[46ford]

Was there something wrong with the engine?

[fordman67]

The head gasket had seeped coolant into the #3 cylinder.The coolant erroded the piston down to the top ring in a nickel size spot. Two other pistons had corroded the alluminum to the cylinder. It from my estimation and the provided info from seller had most likely been sitting 20 years.Morale of the story,drain the cooland if storing long term.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Your Doing Fine! The car its self looks good from the pictures. Look at it this way, now you can rebuild it your self, and there won't be any guess work on how good it was done, or what is in it. Herm.

[fordman67]

Thanks Herm. Yea I am not completly disappointed.I like to know what I have on all my projects. It is not always a good thing as I spend too much money. But on this one I have a lot of details to make sure are correct as I plan on driving this thing as much as absolutley possible! As soon as possible!

[[email protected]]

Well, you've become an inspiration. I've had the engine out of tne '21 touring for a week and have'nt touched it. I've had the excuse I want to do some work on the walls of the shop and build a workbench. But today all that's going to get pushed aside and I'm going to get down to the bottom of the problem. I need to pull the rear main. To much crankshaft endplay and I lost my magneto.

[fordman67]

Good deal! Hopefully the machine shop will get back with me and I will get pistons ordered tomorrow. Also as an added bonus I did a side job tonight and have a transmission to build for another friend...Hope this T finance fund continues to hold up and I can get more parts on the way! Recession? Really? Man I just want to slow down...full steam ahead!

[fordman67]

well,the machine shop called me today. It turns out the ol gal was wore good. It needs a .040 over bore.Cool,parts will be ordered monday.
YAHOOOO!!!

[[email protected]]

I got kind of a kick out of your posts. I'm going to start with the transmission on mine and work my way toward the front. I would really like to rebuild the motor on mine because I've got it out. However I have to consider the fact the motor was running just fine. But I have to eliminate the crankshaft endplay so my magneto will work. I'm thinking of repairing the thrust on the main myself. I'm thinking I would like to learn as much as possible about the mechanics of these cars so I'm not held to the excessively high prices for labor that the people who do know charge. I sure like this hobby and really enjoy working on these cars but my fixed income limits me to what I can pay for labor. I've got a really great friend in farmallcub49 and though he supplements a good part of his income by working on model T's he has also provided me with a lot of advice and help when I'm working on them. And it helps that he supplies my parts too. The other good thing is the model T club I belong to. There aren't to many people who haven't gone through what I'm going through now. I'm a little bummed out today because they had their Christmas party this morning and I was ill and couldn't attend. I didn't think there was any reason for me to make them all sick too. So keep going. It sounds like your doing fine.
-Mike

[fordman67]

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It would be nice if there was a fix for a t thrust like there is on an A.surely a bronze thrust with some pins to locate could be fashioned. I wish I could have gotten mine running short of complete teardown. But it goes that way.Sorry you are feeling bad. My family is all sick also so I can relate. Just keep up the good work and pluggin away.Maybe we get these flivers going someday. I might have to come up there and and we can tour some.It sounds like there is a good T community there locally!

[fordman67]

Is anyone else familiar with this book? I bought it at Hershey a couple of years ago. I just keep rereading it and studying the pictures and diagrams. The ads section is also makes me wish I had a time machine and could go back and buy some accesories....I just wish I had a heater for this thing...

Also, I placed my first of many parts order today...FUN!

[fordman67]

Well, I suppose Christmas came a bit early for me. Now I have work to do and hopefully the powdercoater will come through soon. All is well though. AND Snyders door glass run kit I believe WILL ALSO repair quarter windows as well.

[fordman67]

coils...the 4 to t
he left were what came in the ol gal...4 on the right,I did some work for a friend who was hoarding them for his antique gas engines.
The coil man does not think I should use the brass top on my car that my coul box wont work.I cant trade them out since my friend was so nice to give me such a great deal.

[fordman67]

What a beautiful thing! the machine shop sure did a bang up job.



What is that orange paint about? It sure sticks well! What color is it supposed to be anyway.



Sure is a pretty crankshaft!

[fordman67]

tada! my signature works now! yeeeaaaaa

[dumb person]

Not sure what the orange paint was but it might have been a version of red lead that was popular once? Maybe not.
Anyway the brass top ones might work as long as you do not put the top on the coil box.

[fordman67]

So, is the engine supposed to be the green like an A? Or black? Heck I never really thought much about it to be honest... At least the serial number on the engine matches my title!

[jackdaron]

You moter would be black or unpainted.(cast)

[fordman67]

Hmmm, I do like black painted engines. It will look nice with that brass stromberg acc carb!

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by jackdaron

You moter would be black or unpainted.(cast)

Most of the T engines I see are green. My '21 is green. Were they green for awhile and switch to black or maybe vice versa? Or were all of them black?

[fordman67]

I should do some research on this subject.I have seen some very early cars that they were red on? I had previously read about the bare unpainted engines. Most I have seen were black but never really was concerned. I am not doing some over the top restoration on the T.I do however want it to be faithful to original as much as I can.

[jackdaron]

I have a 25 tudor and have had for many years. I now have everything to finish it but the necessary funds. They can be quite expensive to upholster/glass/paint. One of the most lengthy discussions on the MTFCA forum concerned engine painting. Since a lot of the old records were lost,there isn't to much availble to help. The general consenses is some very thin black paint was used on some,but maybe not all till 1926 when Ford used a Green color. Most of the guys use the MOdel A green as it seems to be the closest. Your milage may vary.

[[email protected]]

Farmallcub49 has a 1922 centerdoor that, to the best of my knowledge, has never had the engine opened up. It would be interesting for him to get on this thread and let us know for sure if it hasn't been worked on other then maintenance and what color the engine is. I've seen his rebuilds and as I recall they're green. Wow this has become a puzzler.
-Mike

[Jack Innes]

Bruice McCauley did a lot of research for his book & the following is his take on engine painting. The bottom line looks like most engines were bare metal, some were lightly painted black & some of the "Improved cars" were moleskin. No mention of green. PAINTINGExposed parts of Model T Fords were generally painted the body color. Early red cars, for example, had red fenders, aprons, hoods, running boards, axles, and wheels. The same is true of the Brewster Green and blue cars but here these is some question. Since these greens and blues were extremely dark, if not black, it is often difficult to determine if the parts were the body color or actually black paint. The consensus is that the above parts were originally the body color, not black.

Nuts, bolts, and small assemblies which could be seen easily, were also painted, even though such parts were installed after the painting process. Ford had people with paint and brush in hand to “touch up” such parts. While there may be exceptions, all exposed pieces were painted, and this includes the cotter keys in these pieces.
Engines, engine pans, and splash shields (at the side of the engine) may or may not have been painted. Again, the consensus is that many engines were not painted but that some were painted in a very thin black during the Model T era. Late 1926 and 1927 engines were painted Moleskin, at least at the main factory. Even here, though, there were exceptions. Engine pans follow the same pattern. The dust shields were probably painted body color in the early years, and black through 1927. Floor boards were generally not painted but may have been given a coat of linseed oil or similar.
Indeed, there are no hard and fast rules on what was and what was not painted on any Model T. There were too many variations.

ENGINE PAINTING1927In Walter T. Fishleigh's files in Accession 94 at the Ford Archives there is a memo dated July 26, 1926 entitled: “Finish For Model T Motors”. It lists the finish to be put on each of the exposed parts of the motor.

Black Pyroxlylin used on:

Transmission Cover
Starter Motor
Generator
Crankcase
Commutator

Black Graphite Paint used on:

Exhaust Manifold and Carburetor

Black Enamel used on:

Breather Cap
Commutator Retainer Spring
Manifold Clamps

Nickel Plate used on:

Cylinder Head Cap Screws
Spark Plug caps and Thumb Nuts
Spark Plug Wire Terminals
Coil Box Terminal Bolts and Nuts
Water Connection Cap Screws
Manifold Cap Screws

Bright Zinc Plate used on:

Cut Out Cover

Moleskin Pyroxylin used on:

Cylinder
Cylinder Head
Generator Bracket
Front Cover
Air Intake and Manifold

(signed) C. W. Avery

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by fordman67

tada! my signature works now! yeeeaaaaa

Some Questions Mr. Ford Man, What clearance did you give the pistons? Is your crank reground, or just polished out? Did they run your block through the cleaning chemical?

Thanks Herm.

[fordman67]

The bores were finished as per the piston manufacturers instructions that came with them. The crank micd perfect and within specs so it was mearly polished.Also luckily the babbit on mains and rods was very nice with plenty of shims in the rods and mains. And the block was only jetwashed not hot tanked because of babbit not getting repoured.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Jack Innes

Moleskin Pyroxylin used on:

Cylinder
Cylinder Head
Generator Bracket
Front Cover
Air Intake and Manifold

(signed) C. W. Avery

Is it safe to assume "moleskin pyroxylin" is a shade of brown?

[fordman67]

I suppose if a 26-27 and...ok sure tan sounds like mole skin. For me I think black may be my color of choise...but I really want to do RED! I know it not correct but, that would really pop in all that black. Now I am going out to something to it even if it is wrong!

[Jack Innes]

Here is a picture of a cutaway display engine at the Henry Ford Musueum. It is thought that the paint may be that applied in 1927.
Any reference to the color in Ford oriented catalogs is Moleskin Brown.
Pyroxlyn is the type of paint, it would likely fall in the enamel category today.

[[email protected]]

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Is Pyroxlyn anything like a type of NitroCellulose Lacquer? Is it flammabe? Afterall it starts with the word "pyro".

[fordman67]

that is all that is left of the old junk pistons.
I got the rods cleaned and ready to hang pistons and rings.

Also got the interior out to get the window work going. Found that the drivers quarter window is missing the regulator(now I know why it would not roll down). Someone had the window held up with drywall screws.Also I am missing the upper window inner trim.

NOW the big question....I have the interior,engine/trans out,front end and suspension out. All that is left is fenders,running boards, body...the rear axle is slated to come out but have wanted to keep parts strewn about to a minimum.If i go ahead and tear it the rest of the way down I could powder the frame and strip it for paint and make it nice.BUT it will make my quick project at least a year away on completion.The whole reason I bought this car was it was supposed to be a fast turn around to drive! argh! I have big projects.THIS should not be one of them! At the end of the day if I dont do it right I will only hate that I did not go all the way...AM I CRAZY?

[Jack Innes]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Is Pyroxlyn anything like a type of NitroCellulose Lacquer? Is it flammabe? Afterall it starts with the word "pyro".

Yes! Probably unwise to spray the engine running with an open exhaust.

Pyroxylin

Overview

Pyroxylin lacquers and plastics served as a springboard for DuPont. They launched the company out of the powder business of the 19th century and into the forefront of the 20th century revolution in synthetic materials. Pyroxylin is a generic name for nitrocellulose compounds that form a film when dissolved in a mixture of ether and alcohol, from which plastics can be produced. In the years before World War II, DuPont marketed a host of pyroxylin-made consumer goods including upholstery, brass finishes, household cement, toiletries, and clothing accessories.
Although a cutting-edge plastic in the early 20th century, pyroxylin had been around a long time. During the Civil War, quick-drying pyroxylin film had been used as a covering on battlefield wounds. Further experimentation with the application of heat and pressure led to the development in 1870 of celluloid, the first pyroxylin plastic.
DuPont, seeking diversification based on its nitrocellulose experience, bought the International Smokeless Powder & Chemical Company, a manufacturer of both explosives and pyroxylin lacquers, in 1904. Six years later, the acquisition of the Fabrikoid Company involved DuPont in the manufacture of pyroxylin-based artificial leather. DuPont extended its line of finishes with the 1915 purchase of The Arlington Company and began production of Pyralin, a pyroxylin plastic used in combs, collars, cuffs, and automobile side curtains. The acquisition of the Viscoloid Company in 1925 deepened DuPont's involvement in pyroxylin plastics.
DuPont research improved each of these pyroxylin products significantly, making DuPont Fabrikoid the nation's premiere artificial leather and developing transparent plastics marketed by the DuPont Viscoloid Company. The company also invented Duco, a tough, fast-drying pyroxylin-based lacquer that became the standard finish on automobiles and a host of other consumer products through the 1930s. By World War II, DuPont had used its expertise in pyroxylin to help develop true synthetics like nylon, which were quickly displacing nitrocellulose-based substances.

[fordman67]

WOW! That is interesting. Not stuff you learn in school.

[[email protected]]

I use to use a lot of nitrocellulose lacquer when I was restoring/rebuilding guitars.

[fordman67]

Well fellas....I have been busy on the ol gal. She is in a million pieces now.



Got the fenders,running boards,aprons,dash,etc...droped off parts to redi-strip for derusting and stripping.

[fordman67]

frame pulled,prepped to be powdercoated



Just had to cut front crossmember section under engine mount out and weld in a non wallerd (sp) out,noncracked, proper thickness replacement before powder.



Hopefully I will get all the small pieces blasted and prepped for paint before the redi-stripped parts are ready.Frame and other powder coated parts hopefully will be done this week or next.ALL at the same time I need to get started on the engine and get rear end torn down.Also this weekend I am going to build a horse to jig the body up. I can get the repairs done on interior wood if I have any time....Wish me luck!

[[email protected]]

Your build reminds me of the restore I did about 6 years ago on a 38 Ford pickup. Frame off is scary to begin with because you don't know what you'll find but once your into it, it's not so bad. Keep on trucking on. And keep us informed of your progress.

[fordman67]

Honestly I had no intention of going this far wth this car. I was mearly goin to make it run and drive. But it needed more than i could talk myself into leaving. It will be worth it in the end.

[[email protected]]

I hear you. It's my fear of screwing things up and not having it done for next summer that keep me from doing it on the touring I'm working on now. But I've also got a tudor and I'll be starting on it this next spring and just playing with it until next fall. Then I may see about doing quite a bit more on it next winter

[fordman67]

You just have to love having multiple projects. I would be happy having just one done.But really what is done? Will anything ever be done...probably not...so I will settle for driveable....yea, that sounds good.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by fordman67

You just have to love having multiple projects. I would be happy having just one done.But really what is done? Will anything ever be done...probably not...so I will settle for driveable....yea, that sounds good.

Ha, you're obviously making an assumption that I'm capable of having multiple projects. I'm that guy that my Dad always said couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. Multitasking has never been my forte. And to answer your question I believe done is when you either sell the project, total out the project or die. I know giving a project away can still get you sucked back into it. Oh and one other thing, I'm not married.

[fordman67]

Obviously im the guy that can't stick with anything for long. All my projects are started.
I have finished plenty. Divorce got a couple...starting a family got the rest.Starting over now.the last were my 66gt 4speed mustang,67 cyclone GT 390,T speedster....I am much happier with what I am working on now.just got to get this T going.

[[email protected]]

I owned a '69 GT 500 Cyclone Cobra Jet. It had a 429 with a 780 CFM double pumper holley and it scared the hell out of me. It had an automatic transmission and posi. I bought it for $600.00 in 1976 and traded it for a '72 Nova. I wish I had that Cyclone now. I figure it would be worth a hell of a lot more than that Nova. Of course the Cyclone road like a lumber wagon and refused to go past a gas pump. I wanted to keep it but my girlfriend at the time, exwife now, didn't like it and I had to part with it but for 3 months one summer I was a freaking hot rod god.

[fordman67]

I love that"hot rod god" makes me smile.wow a cj cyclone.cials yea that for a nova...it prob at the time was a good idea.Luckily my second wife "gets" me and is supportive of my habbit as long as we have the financials to support it.The first wife could not hack it....divorce is SO worth it!

[[email protected]]

I hear ya, in regards to the financials. I don't think I can avoid a trip out to the shop today. I want to make some progress. Probably bead blast the rest of the parts and start checking clearances. I'm going to have to get busy the magnets too.

[fordman67]

Keep up the good fight my friend! I hope to get some small pieces blasted tomorrow and the body horse built at least.Would like to get some work done on the body but will have to see how the day goes.I have a sick wife and a 2 1/2 yr old to work schedule around...

[[email protected]]

fordman67, I'm hoping your wife's illness isn't anything serious. And a 2 1/2 year old child can really be a handful. I remember those days very well. They were without a doubt the most difficult and busiest times of my life.

[fordman67]

Thanks,The wife just has a sinus infection and general lousy feeling. I hope it not serious...that little gal is too much handful for me by myself. But the little one wants to help on the model t tomorrow after her nap. I cant wait to get her into the hobby...she first rode on my M farmall at 8 weeks.That will teach mommy to leave her home with daddy when he is ready for the maiden voyage of his new toy.

Now to business. I got the body fixture for the body built and the body up on it and a better look at the wood. I am at an impass on my situation.I was hoping to not replace any wood. However the pass sill is rotten,rear window frame,pass "a" pillar shot,both "b" pillars split,reat vertical"bows" behind seat missing,belt wood poor replacements.....in all 975$ worth of repair parts...I am down in the dumps...975 might as well be a million dollars right now. I guess I need to get some side work going to earn some parts money.

[dumb person]

Not sure what your skills are like but i replaced some wood in a car the other day. Started out looking difficult but got easier as i went. If you have a few tools like a saw, glue, a basic drill and a wood chisel you probably have enough to work the wood into the shape you need so if you have the time you might be able to save yourself quite a bit of money.

[[email protected]]

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I hate to admit it but my touring needs a lot of the wood replaced. i noticed the other day the sills are soft. I will be parking it in the shop all the time I own it but that's still not a guarantee it won't get wet. Perhaps it'll be due for a teardown and a complete restore in a few years. Currently money and ambition are issues.

[yachtsmanbill]

Look over yer shoulder and make sure the damn judges arent looking (!) On the boats, we've used "Git-Rot" which is a thin epoxy thats injected into the wood with a hypo.
If ya wanna replace the wood, get a $75 throw away bandsaw from harbor freight and make your own! Just think of all the charcoal that came outa the factory! Those guys werent using cad-cam back then... it was ALL by hand! ws

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com...rot&match_type=


This one of the marine fastener suppliers Ive used for the last 30+ years!

[fordman67]

Bill,a friend of mine suggested the git rot also.I would do it on the rear window frame.The pass sill is rotten and it was two pieces when henry built it.Unfortunately it is coming unlaminated.I suppuse if I removed it,repaired it and reinstalled it I might be able to salvage it.My dad(if I can get him to help) is outstanding w wood and I know another guy that is phenomenal w wood.The second builds 50000$ custom kitchens and is second to none.He built me a set of running boards for a 29 reo cloud.What a shame to cover them w matting.I just don't think he will save me any money compared to the ford wood.com

[fordman67]

The "a" and "b" pillars scare me because of door fitiment. Then there is the belt piece around the rear.I don't have much of a pattern since it is someones poor rendition.And that is only 111 I think. The main sill @313 is prob the worst money wise but also so much of the structure.I simply must remove and repair I guess.Get Gitrot!

[fordman67]

Well, Frame and front suspension pieces should come back from powder this week. Chemical dipped parts maybe next week . Hopefully I can get the ol shop cleaned up from sidejob today and the two c-6's built and the T interior safely stashed tomorrow...Temp is finally getting cold here so I think I might just like to park my daily driver inside the garage for once.

Also maybe get rear end torn down for check out and set up an electalisys tank for cleaning front springs and small other parts.I will post up pics if I get anything accomplished haha

Aaron

[fordman67]

First, I got my wood guy over here the other night. He gave me a price on redoing most all of my wood. Ok,so that i can afford. I know he will do an absoulute great job on. That is a good sign. However I am a bit unsure about how to go further. Basically I am going to have to completely disassemble the whole body,give it to him in pieces and then reassemble...The only hitch is my headliner...it is nice...and the top is nice.Hope I can save both...I would never thought I would have this apart so far when I bought it....LORD help me! This may be a challenge...

[Jack Innes]

A friend once had a good wood worker make all of the wood for a 1930 Durrant. The work was beautiful but the measurements all did not allow for metal thickness. The man who installed the wood is no longer with us & probably is still trying to repent for the language he came up with by the time the car was together.
It is not likely to happen but worth keeping in mind.

[fordman67]

Thanks Jack. I most cetainly hope that is not how it goes. This fello completly rewooded my friends 1911 electric van and you really should see it. I think it willbe ok.Just getting nervous about how far I am getting ready to tear this thing apart...OH well I guess...them guys that built it werent building rocket ships...

[yachtsmanbill]

TRUST ME!! Take lots of pictures! Digital film is cheap and so's the processing. Do a lot of close-ups of stoopid stuff like even door hinges and bracketry. Dont forget to post them here. Once you start, stay with it. Dedicate a year to it and if youre done in 6 months yer money ahead (!). ws







I also use those paint type magic markers, with numbers or arrows or whatever for re-assembly. Comes right off with thinner. ws

[fordman67]

Yea,DIgital is so much better than ol 35mm. I DO need to get started on this.
Kinda distracted with family and side work(to finance this project)...AND I have come up with a deal on a pair of dana60 axles for my cummins diesel project. I need to just keep my eye on the ball with this T. I will forge on!

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by fordman67

Yea,DIgital is so much better than ol 35mm. I DO need to get started on this.
Kinda distracted with family and side work(to finance this project)...AND I have come up with a deal on a pair of dana60 axles for my cummins diesel project. I need to just keep my eye on the ball with this T. I will forge on!

Been thru it. Worked midnight till noon for five years. Meanwhile trying help my wife get thru school, while changing diapers, heating formula for my daughter and trying to convince my 2 year old son that sweet potatoes belonged in his gut and not in his hair. And all the time I'm doing all this I'm also putting my '56 Nomad through a rebuild. The '56 was finished but it took a long time. By the time I was finished I was sick of it and it went down the road. I remember putting in the headliner on a hot day and sweating and wanting to get it done. Before the day was over I'd managed to put a phillips screwdriver right thru the fabric. It was a small hole and next the to slanted post on the side, but I still wake up screaming in the middle of the night. About 6 years ago, the kids had moved out and my wife and I were working normal hours and making some excellent money. We restored our '38 Ford pickup and took 3 years to do it. We were working in a brand new shop and with mostly new tools. If we needed something we simply went and got it. Since finishing the truck we've entered it in probably 25 shows and have about 21 first place trophies and a couple of second places. I wish life could be like that now. Problem is she gave up her marriage for her profession and bought a partnership into the business. Now she's back putting in the long hours and I'm living in my own house on a fixed income. But it was well worth the change.

[[email protected]]

And yes she kept the '38, the house and everything except my clothes and my tools. Oh and my mothers old beatup guitar.

[yachtsmanbill]

Finish up that Model T and youll have yerself a guaranteed babe magnet. Just sometimes they need a little coaching! ws

[yachtsmanbill]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

And yes she kept the '38, the house and everything except my clothes and my tools. Oh and my mothers old beatup guitar.

Kept it??? I wouldve given her the .38 I was never any good at punctuatificating.

[[email protected]]

punctuatificating???? When I was a kid my Dad told me doing it would cause me to go blind!!!!

[yachtsmanbill]

I only did it until I needed glasses... and some NAIR on the knuckles LOL. ws

[fordman67]

See now that is not right. When people get divorced it should be fair. I hear too many stories like that. I guess I got lucky when I got mine. She was the offending party in the situation. Therefore I got the house and my cars and furniture. She took her crap and got out. I was not complaining except paying the bills on one income was tighter than ever.So I wound up having to sell my race car. But it was all worth it to get rid of her......Just too bad about that 38,it looked very nice.You will get there on your projects and be better off in the end.
Bill, you just ain't right hahahaha!

[Bookman]

Keep plugging along, every step is one more behind you. Before you know it, you will be half done, almost done, and finally done.

[fordman67]

Well fellas...it has been a while since I posted in this ol rag...

The fenders,running boards,splash aprons are back from stripper...

All the small parts are back from the powder coater and I am going back tomorrow for the frame.Hoppefully I will have some eye candy for ya guys soon.

My main dilema is wheels....I still have not fully formulated an attack plan.
I HAVE been offered another set of solid disk wheels...FREE with two new tires IF I will use them.(gotta love them GOOD friends that want you to get your car done)

The big question...am I a bad person If I disk it? I want wood but the disks will be safer for my family I think....opinions?

[dumb person]

Disk wheels will be ok as long as you can change them back.

[fordman67]

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Oh yea that is no problem.I also intend on saving the woodies and eventually return them to service.just not in the budget to redo them right now.

[yachtsmanbill]

Thats a totally personal choice, but the wife summed it up..."Looks like a Roger Rabbit car..." Personally, I think modelTs were meant to run artillery wheels, or to spiff it up a bit, wire wheels. JMHO... ws

[fordman67]

SHAVE annnnndddd a hair cut.........TWWWWWWWWOOOOO bits!

We shall see Bill about them chebby wheels.

For now here are some pics of frame and small parts back from powder and fenders,running boards,splash aprons back from chemical dip...

[fordman67]

[fordman67]

darn it,them were supposed to be in one post...photo bucket not so slick!

[[email protected]]

You are definitely moving right along.

[fordman67]

Yea,just not fast enough.got to finish the chassis so I can get on the body.just can't tear down another thing till something is back together.

[yachtsmanbill]

Thats what was getting to me except I started with a hermaphrodite chassis. A regular T male hahaha! I had to modify the frame, rebuild the front axle, do the motor, THEN come to find out the rear end ist sheist, redo all that and get it together so that the weight/attitude is correct to start working on the suspension and steering up front.
The body is gonna be the fun part for me. A fabbed up steel frame and skin it with either aluminum or steel... not to sure about that part yet...Then I find out the column has to come apart. Anything Ive taken for granted has bit me in the CULO. ws

[fordman67]

Yea bill im up for what you are laying down...I think im gonna slam this thing together and drive it for a while with the body like it is.i will paint the parts that are already stripped but come back later and repair the body maybe next winter or something.here goes!

[[email protected]]

Just about time for an update from you. Have you been able to close a deal on a set of wheels yet? It'll be fun to see your car when it's together. I really like my tudor. I still have to try to get some seats. I'll probably but a kit from somewhere. Or find a good set of original if there is such thing. There's a guy up in Shevlin MN that I talked to Last Fall that had a good original set for $400.00. But before I can even think of seats I have to look at a flat tube radiator from Bergs. Hopefully they'll give me as good a price as they gave me on my last one. I've got way to many projects here that need to be done.

[fordman67]

Bergs...like bergbouer? We were over at his shop last year.good fella! He is only about an hour from us.actually my buddies dad and his dad were old gas engine pals.
And....i suck.I have accomplished nothing this week. I am hoping to assemble the front end this weekend. I got my buddies wifes car at the house for some work so she can enjoy it this spring.I have to keep her happy! She is SO nice and will be delivering our baby and is my wifes ob....so you get the picture.i have not done any more on wheels since i have so much other to do.I am steadily watching flebay and the calssifieds on here.i will come up with something.....or just use the free disks from my buddy.....only time will tell...update with pics to follow in a short time! I promise!

[fordman67]

If you only need front the used originals might not be bad.what does a complete cartouche run now? Three arms and ten legs? Maybe a first born child too!

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by fordman67

If you only need front the used originals might not be bad.what does a complete cartouche run now? Three arms and ten legs? Maybe a first born child too!

Ya, I don't know. I'm not looking at anything but getting the seats fixed. No way I'm going to replace the whole interior. My wish is to have the car as much original as I can keep it. I don't want to restore it. I just want to keep the patina as it is. So first the touring car has to be together then it'll be time for the tudor. If the guy in Shevlin will sell me some decent seats for $400.00 for the set I figure it will be ok. I hate to say it on an open forum that I've got a problem with the way the guy does business. He buys some pretty nice tudors and coupes, takes them apart and sells the pieces off to anyone with money. It sort of pisses a guy off to think he's taking a good T out of the picture but then he's helping a lot of guys put other T's on the road. Fundamentally it sound like a good plan but when you consider the fact that darn near everything you need to completely restore a T is available from the catalogs then what he's doing is destroying history by parting out these old cars. So I guess I'm a little torn as to whether I'm going to buy from him or not. I know there's a lot of guys in the club that boycott him because they don't agree with what he's doing. As you can tell I don't know how I feel about it.

And yes I am talking about Bergbauer's. Great quality at really fair prices. And he will absolutely stand behind his work.

[dumb person]

Mr (email address as username)
If you need seats make them yourself, i did! (based all on pictures from the internet) So the way i did it was make the wooden frame that looked like the origonal, seat metal for the seat back bent to shape, Took some modern foam seats and springs and cut them apart to fit to the seatframe i made and covered it all in a thin layer of padding from a furniture store with a layer of fabric on top. Looks the part and nobody noticed its origins.
i would prefer making them over buying some from a guy. Just need some pictures from the internet and a drill.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by dumb person

Mr (email address as username)
If you need seats make them yourself, i did! (based all on pictures from the internet) So the way i did it was make the wooden frame that looked like the origonal, seat metal for the seat back bent to shape, Took some modern foam seats and springs and cut them apart to fit to the seatframe i made and covered it all in a thin layer of padding from a furniture store with a layer of fabric on top. Looks the part and nobody noticed its origins.
i would prefer making them over buying some from a guy. Just need some pictures from the internet and a drill.

Hi Dumb, I could use the frames and hardware that Ive already got, put a little more cotton batting on them and some new material to cover them with and have seats. I believe they actually sell fabric that matches what was used originally.

[fordman67]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Ya, I don't know. I'm not looking at anything but getting the seats fixed. No way I'm going to replace the whole interior. My wish is to have the car as much original as I can keep it. I don't want to restore it. I just want to keep the patina as it is. So first the touring car has to be together then it'll be time for the tudor. If the guy in Shevlin will sell me some decent seats for $400.00 for the set I figure it will be ok. I hate to say it on an open forum that I've got a problem with the way the guy does business. He buys some pretty nice tudors and coupes, takes them apart and sells the pieces off to anyone with money. It sort of pisses a guy off to think he's taking a good T out of the picture but then he's helping a lot of guys put other T's on the road. Fundamentally it sound like a good plan but when you consider the fact that darn near everything you need to completely restore a T is available from the catalogs then what he's doing is destroying history by parting out these old cars. So I guess I'm a little torn as to whether I'm going to buy from him or not. I know there's a lot of guys in the club that boycott him because they don't agree with what he's doing. As you can tell I don't know how I feel about it.

And yes I am talking about Bergbauer's. Great quality at really fair prices. And he will absolutely stand behind his work.

I have seen that guy selling bodies on fleabay.i almost bought one for my speedster to try to make it family friendly.i juct could not do it due to my lowering it would not make sence.i dont agree with it but it is not my gig.
yea they will be doing my next rad as well! Great fellas!

[fordman67]

Well fellas,its time to get back on this project...BUT what first? body or chassis...Im leaning toards chassis...plenty of work to be done thats for sure.

[yachtsmanbill]

I was starting to feel like the Loan Arrainger. I finally spent about 4-5 hours in the shop today. It was a 35 degree heat wave. Now my dogs are barkin'.

So ya know what they say...
Jetzt, da der Staub gelegt hat, seine Zeit bei der Arbeit ws

[fordman67]

Bill,ever since the trifecta was disolved its just not been the same for me...Im hoping to be around more.The new/3 month old keeps me inside more.Hope to get some parts painted and suspension under it this week maybe.got to strip paint off of powdercoated parts threads...argh.

[yachtsmanbill]

Forgot about the new mechanic... congrats! Ahhh to be young again... What wrong with the powder coated stuff? If its a color change, scotchbrite it and spray them. If it needs stripping, a propane torch is you friend! Bliister it and wire brush or scrape off the mass of it. If its on threads, a good wire wheel will do it. ws

[fordman67]

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No,they didnt mask any threads or machined surfaces befoe powder.now i got to get them cleaned so i can assemble is all.need to send my oil pan to farmallcub to be straightened and get my block braces ordered.
going out in a min and see what i can get done.

[FlatheadTed]

What about making your own wheels ,?spokes in a metal lath ??

Originally Posted by fordman67

Oh yea that is no problem.I also intend on saving the woodies and eventually return them to service.just not in the budget to redo them right now.

[fordman67]

My Dad is a faboulus wood worker.He thinks we should just do it our selves.He thinks he can make the spokes himself no problem.I am on the other hand skeptical about the whole thing...I will see him this weekend and maybe bring it up again. I need to do some studing up on the process.Would be a great skill to posess in my line of work especially.

[fordman67]

So what is the general thinking on cam shaft gear makeup? the old fiber one looks to be in good shape.I have a generator and have read I believe that the fiber with a generator is a no no.SO?...aluminum or bronze...the dang bronze is 150?My budjet is in serious turmoil so IF it is not too terrible of me I need to reuse the fiber...but would hate to make the fatal misjudgement...I also heve some wear on the #1 cam lobe where the lifter does not ride there is a ledge where the lifter does contact...I guess I really should do a cam and lifters...OPINIONS...? I can post a pic of the lobe and check lift with a dial indicator if that would help...JUUST when I was thinking I would get something accomplished...

also..what amount of clearence do you fellas look for on the mains and rods?
Thanks,Aaron

[fordman67]

Hey gentlemen. LONG time no type.

I have sold my daily driver project(finished) and hopefully my 41 ford(project) here in a few weeks at the frog follies.

That will free up my shop space so I can get this t spread out in enough space to get down to work. Also selling a few of my fleet should free up some funds to get a few needed parts as well. Mostly I need time and space.

Hopefully I will get some progress and some steam back on this to be able to drive it next spring. My little gals arent getting younger and I need to get to driving something fun other than my diesel pickup.

[fordman67]

Progress to commence once again. Selling the 41 took longer than I thought it would take. I have gained plenty of room to be able to get back to work.

I think I will finish the front axle assembly first. I may order some spokes and send some wheel parts to powder coat so I can get it on wheels.

I need to pull the rear axle apart and see what I need to order other than side washers.

pics and progress to follow !!! I am sorry for all these false starts.