Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-21-2019, 02:11 PM   #1
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,733
Default Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

I'm looking at the bores on the crusty flatty. It's a 39/40 99 model.

Certain parts of the bores on 3 of the cylinders have (I can't think of a better expression) "degraded". The surface has a consistency like, carbon, is the best way I can describe it. I scrape through this soft layer and there is good metal behind it but it is very uneven. It's not like scraping some rust off where you can sometimes have a surprisingly good surface beneath.

Anybody else found this?

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 02:25 PM   #2
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Severe blow by can cause stuff like that. I've also seen hardened valve seats crumble to pieces. Stellite is kind of a funny material that can do some weird things when exposed to the right (or wrong) conditions. The old cast iron quality left a lot to be desired too. The modern mixes are a lot more resistant to stuff like that. It's kind of like a heat corrosion or erosion.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-21-2019, 02:27 PM   #3
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 6,140
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Iron boat engines used in salt water can get soft cast iron, almost like clay--- I was robbing a crankshaft out of small block chevy that clammers had used till it rusted through---3 speeds foreword, slow reverse--- it had wrong prop, ran better in 2nd,
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 02:28 PM   #4
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Hi Mart,


I've seen this in old buried cast iron piping. A project I worked on for a municipal gas distribution system had this problem in their old piping. It was especially evident in acidic soil used for back fill.


https://www.google.com/search?q=cast...PzVCgd1_QSChM:
glennpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 02:33 PM   #5
flatheadmurre
Senior Member
 
flatheadmurre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,045
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Gray cast iron sometimes show the effect of selective leaching out of iron in mild corrosive environments. The surface layer of the iron becomes like graphite and it can be easily cut with a knife. Because of the attack, the iron or steel matrix is dissolved. The graphite becomes cathodic to iron and a galvanic corrosion cell is formed. Iron is dissolved and a porous mass of voids and complex iron oxides is left behind. This graphitized cast iron loses its strength and other metallic properties
flatheadmurre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 02:45 PM   #6
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Now and then a person will find an engine block where someone has tried to fill in imperfections. They will try everything from solder to epoxy sometimes.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 05:31 AM   #7
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Masterton, New Zealand
Posts: 3,816
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Yeah, I struck that soft graphite sorta stuff in an inlet port of a C69A block I was porting; it just kept going....I ditched that block. I'd never encountered it before, just thought it was some imperfection in the iron. I, [probably incorrectly], formed the opinion since then, that the post war blocks were cast of an inferior grade of iron to the pre war offerings, because I'd never struck this before. I do know the later blocks don't weld as nicely as the early ones....Interesting that you've found it in a 99 block, generally considered to be one of the 'better' blox.
__________________
Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 07:40 AM   #8
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,733
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

I thought I'd replied to this but must have fat fingered it. Whoops.

The scenario described by Murre seems to describe what I found quite well.

I was wondering if the attack on the metal may have been caused by someone applying some sort of substance into the bores in an attempt to unseize it? The damage is in three bores and all above the pistons. The bore where the pistons were sitting is sound.

If it was cauised by a substance, any idea what that substance may have been? I'm not sure, but did I read somewhere that molasses can cause a problem like this if left too long? Have I imagined that?

I'm baffled.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 08:39 AM   #9
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,013
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Scotch whiskey - somebody was storing their stash of whiskey by pouring it into the engine via the carb - hence the reason the degradation is above the rings.
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 09:44 AM   #10
glennpm
Senior Member
 
glennpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Old and highly used engine oil becomes acidic. Sulfuric acid is one of the byproducts especially due to oxidation.


Glenn
glennpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 09:52 AM   #11
mfirth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: ohio
Posts: 986
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

A little off, but i had a head on an A M C 327 marine engine that looked as though it was delaminating....flaking apart above an exhaust port .
mfirth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 12:38 AM   #12
95476
Senior Member
 
95476's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 412
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

I had that happen with a 59AB block I had.
I took it to the machine shop to get boiled out and magnafluxed.
He called me to come and take a look at what was left.
The passenger side of the block was full of holes and the areas around the valve seats were bad as well.
The block looked OK from the outside but was toast on the inside. No ridges or cracks in the cylinders though !
95476 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 01:37 AM   #13
RalphG
Senior Member
 
RalphG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sask. Canada
Posts: 2,419
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Fire maybe? I've never seen a problem inside an engine but its pretty common for the cast exhaust manifolds to turn brittle and break during removal.
RalphG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 02:26 AM   #14
David J
Senior Member
 
David J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St Croix Falls WI
Posts: 2,080
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Yes ,
Fairly common to find 2 cylinder JD tractor blocks-heads with mushy metal .
Seems to be in ones that sat with water in the horizontal cylinders for years .
If deep enough it effectively ruins them .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
I'm looking at the bores on the crusty flatty. It's a 39/40 99 model.

Certain parts of the bores on 3 of the cylinders have (I can't think of a better expression) "degraded". The surface has a consistency like, carbon, is the best way I can describe it. I scrape through this soft layer and there is good metal behind it but it is very uneven. It's not like scraping some rust off where you can sometimes have a surprisingly good surface beneath.

Anybody else found this?

Mart.
David J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 06:58 AM   #15
chuck stevens
Senior Member
 
chuck stevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: upstate new york
Posts: 758
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

I had this on a 59AB, while scraping off carbon I soon realized I was digging into the block. The cast iron was about as hard as pencil lead. No saving that one!
chuck stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 08:46 AM   #16
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,144
Default Re: Anybody experienced cast iron degradation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck stevens View Post
I had this on a 59AB, while scraping off carbon I soon realized I was digging into the block. The cast iron was about as hard as pencil lead. No saving that one!


The recent 59AB block I did had a rot hole in the lower portion of the water jacket. Hole was the size of the pencil eraser

We did not find it until it was baked and blasted. It was caused by a ton of crap that settled in the water jackets and left in there and eventually ate through the cast iron. We epoxied the inside and out using Belzona 1212 epoxy.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 11-25-2019 at 08:54 AM.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:08 AM.