Flathead Ted Brake Energizer Kit??

[1931 S/W]

Hey there, first post on this site to hopefully get a little feedback from the Model A world.


I have a totally stock 1931 Slant window sedan and I need to do something about the brakes. I'm going to be pulling them apart to clean everything and adjust what I can adjust.


My question is...has anyone used or seen the Flathead Ted brake energizer kit installed and is it worth the investment in time and money?? Can I get the factory set up to perform enough to get it to stop with confidence. I have had a few moments where with my foot to the floor (or as close as possible) had to swerve to miss the car ahead that has done a short (modern car) stop.


This car is driven regularly in the summer (not a garage or parade queen).


Thanks for any info you might have or suggestions to improve the stock set up.

[Y-Blockhead]

I have Flat Head Ted's Full Floating Brakes on my Town Sedan and it is a big improvement over stock, IMO. But you absolutely have to have your brakes up to original specs before installing. The kit is NOT a fix for worn out original parts. Also I recommend installing Cast Iron Drums. Big improvement over the original steel drums.

The stock brakes can be made to perform well. Contact Randy Gross.

[1931 S/W]

Totally understood, the question was more to the point of - at factory specs is the kit still a good improvement.




The videos of 4 wheel lock up slides is so far away from my cars braking ability that I was wondering how close to reality it really is.

[Y-Blockhead]

Oh, and welcome to 'The Barn'...

[Pmsqrd]

I have one car with Flathead Ted's and one stock. Both brake systems are built to spec with cast iron drums. The major improvement on the FH car is the less pedal pressure required. They both brake better than hydraulic brake A's.

[PalAl]

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Went through my brakes this winter, found many small problems, some frozen parts and bad adjustments. I installed FHT's Deluxe Kit with cast iron and replaced a lot of small parts. Car is still in the air but I can feel a difference already, if that makes any sense.
Be prepared to be confused with Teds instructions, read, read and re-read, then order the video, for me that was the biggest help with the installation and adjustment. Remember what Randy said.

[CarlG]

You can't go wrong by sending everything to Randy Gross and have him supply you with a complete rebuild including cast drums. I just did that on my pickup and couldn't be happier.

[Bill G]

Stock brakes are able to lock up, so once you get them rebuilt, you will have a great improvement over your Flintstone brakes, even without the floaters. New cast iron brake drums are a big part of improving the performance although they are kind of an investment. They can be viewed as an investment in the safety for yourself and others. I got my cast iron drums from Randy Gross too, and I am very happy with the decision. I don't have the Flathead floaters, but I can tell you that all new stock brakes combined with the cast iron brake drums are a huge improvement.

[wmws]

Lots of good suggestions here. I would say to use cast iron drums first along with making sure everything is in good order. Then if you still want less pedal pressure go with Flat Head Ted's at least in the front. My car is set up to have most of the braking in the front. I have cast drums and FHT in the front and just original in the rear. The car stops very well and will lock up all 4 if you really hit them hard.

[Will N]

I have an original system in my Fordor, including the original steel drums. I can lock up all four wheels in a stop. The reason your pedal is going to the floor is slop from wear in the system. If you have even a small amount of play at each clevis pin (keep in mind there are 4 pins between the brake pedal and each wheel) it compounds by the time it gets to moving the operating wedge. Than add to that bushing wear on the pedal shaft, cross shaft and the brake lever shafts, and the first couple of inches of pedal travel is doing nothing but taking all the slack out of the system even before the brake shoes begin to move. A properly set up original system will work just fine.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Although a stock system, properly restored and set up will work OK and if that is your only frame of reference you'll be happy.

The same stock system in good condition will be much improved with a Ted's kit AND by putting the brake bias on the front brakes rather than the rear as the stock system does.

The Ted's kit makes the brakes "full floaters" with some self energizing. Much less pedal pressure is required for the same stop. The pedal feels much more like a modern car.

Set up stock, the rear brakes come on before the front brakes and lock up before the front brakes. A Model A was one of the first cars with front wheel brakes and I think the engineers thought of them as an assist only to the main braking force at the rear. This thinking changed a couple of years later and remains today where 70% of the braking force is at the front wheels... https://www.quora.com/Why-does-70-br...t-front-wheels

We are fortunate that we can adjust our brakes to obtain a more modern ratio of front to rear braking. Here's a "how to"...

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ead-brakes.pdf

[1931 S/W]

Thank you all for your suggestions.


The first step will be to pull it all apart and see what I'm dealing with. I'm feeling encouraged that I can get the stock setup to lock up the wheels under a panic stop when adjusted correctly. I would rather make the investment into getting the set up correct and deal with improving the pedal feel later.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by 1931 S/W

I'm feeling encouraged that I can get the stock setup to lock up the wheels under a panic stop...

Just to be clear, You don't really want your brakes to "lock up the wheels under a panic stop". Once the tires start to skid you lose braking power. That's why moderns have'anti-locking' brake systems.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Just to be clear, You don't really want your brakes to "lock up the wheels under a panic stop". Once the tires start to skid you lose braking power. That's why moderns have'anti-locking' brake systems.

I don't like my car's anti lock brakes. I'd prefer to control the brake pedal.


Even though the best braking is the point just before wheel lock, skidding to a stop is good in a panic situation. Better yet is try to drive in such a manner that you can turn out of the bad situation. On freeways, I like to stay in the right lane, so I can turn off the road in a panic situation.

[bkensinger]

Yes!

When I rebuilt my brakes ten years ago I bought new cast iron drums and had them turned, rebuilt the pads,Flathead Teds, new brake springs, and made sure rods are straight and true. The difference in braking was amazing. Much reduced pedal pressure .I strongly recommend Flathead Teds. It is also critical to adjust the rods correctly and there are many posts on how to do this in this forum.

[1931 S/W]

I've now been in touch with Randy Gross and have a good direction to go in. (great guy by the way if any one else has braking concerns)


Thank you all for the suggestions and comments.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I don't like my car's anti lock brakes. I'd prefer to control the brake pedal.


Even though the best braking is the point just before wheel lock, skidding to a stop is good in a panic situation. Better yet is try to drive in such a manner that you can turn out of the bad situation. On freeways, I like to stay in the right lane, so I can turn off the road in a panic situation.

Haha, you don't have to like them. I was just using them as an example. But since you bring it up, skidding to a stop is not good in a panic situation because once the tire stops rotating you also lose steering.