The Ford Barn

Allanw · 11-09-2013, 02:29 AM

Started the "A" for the first time with the crank today!

We have been doing some small jobs, and the battery had run down while it wasn't used for the last month or so. We had the charger on, but not for long enough.

We set everything up, pressed the starter button and Rrrr Rrrrrrrrr was all we got.

We sat in the car thinking about pushing it uphill to the road, but the driveway is probably a touch steep.

THEN I thought... DUH! It's got a crank handle!

So we pulled out the crank handle and put it in place. Dad grabbed the handle (thumb in the right place!) and gave it a testing pull, to get a feel for the load, and force required to crank it over...

Bugger me, the thing started and sat there running!

It's easier to crank start than the lawnmower!

Mike V. Florida · 11-09-2013, 04:13 AM

GREAT JOB. It's always a treat at car shows showing kids of all ages how it's done.

Allanw · 11-09-2013, 01:02 PM

I'll sure be trying it more often now!

Ed in Maine · 11-09-2013, 03:04 PM

Don't forget to retard the spark. I have a 1914 T and its like a kitten with the spark retarded. O'boy if you forget to retard the spark, it is really nasty! As good operating practice always retard the spark prior to shutting off the engine. In addition to not breaking your arm, this also eliminates the possibility of damaging the starter shaft. Ed

Barber31 · 11-09-2013, 05:41 PM

Where is the correct thumb position?

700rpm · 11-09-2013, 06:13 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Barber31

Where is the correct thumb position?

Thumb pointed toward the back of the car and on top of your fingers, slightly downward, not wrapped around the crank handle. You want to make more of a cup shape with your hand. The wrong position could break your thumb if it backfired. And to protect your arm, the operation is a quick upward pull from about 8:00 and then out at the top to release the crank from the ratchet bolt. Practice with the ignition off.

James Rogers · 11-09-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Thumb pointed toward the back of the car and on top of your fingers, slightly downward, not wrapped around the crank handle. You want to make more of a cup shape with your hand. The wrong position could break your thumb if it backfired. And to protect your arm, the operation is a quick upward pull from about 8:00 and then out at the top to release the crank from the ratchet bolt. Practice with the ignition off.

Which hand?

700rpm · 11-09-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

Which hand?

Right! I've never tried it with my left... Not sure how that would work!

BILL WILLIAMSON · 11-09-2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Right! I've never tried it with my left... Not sure how that would work!

Dog here, iffin' you LEFT PAWED, like me, Kuld you turn around & back UP to the KRANKY THINGY?
But if you turned around, wuld clockwise be switched to clockdumb & versa-visa?? or visa-versa? I ALWAYS roll over clockwise, IF that figures into the equazion. (HELP, Mike K!) T. Buster

Allanw · 11-10-2013, 03:20 AM

Hmmm... Dad did it left handed...

But we're in NZ, so everything spins the other way, because of the Coriolis effect

Ken/SC · 11-10-2013, 04:05 PM

#1 rule. Make sure the car is out of gear, Our your arms will not be your only problem.

SeaSlugs · 11-10-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken/SC

#1 rule. Make sure the car is out of gear, Our your arms will not be your only problem.

out of gear with the parking brake on

whirnot · 11-10-2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken/SC

#1 rule. Make sure the car is out of gear, Our your arms will not be your only problem.

LOL almost did that once.....

nhusa · 11-11-2013, 12:44 PM

When I first saw the title I said to myself "What's the big deal?" -
Then I remembered that you A guys seldom have the need to crank a car.
My other non-modern is a 1919 T without a starter so I have to crank it.

One way to "start an argument" is to open the discussion about which hand to use when cranking a car.
There are some that claim you are guaranteed to brake your arm unless you crank with your left hand and other that "live dangerously" by insisting they are OK by using their right.
I learned to use my right hand so I guess I'm living in constant danger!

For those that need a primer -
1. Neutral is a must

2. Retard the spark (timing)
3. Open the hand throttle a bit
4. Ignition off
5. A few cranks with the choke closed usually helps - but it depends on the car.

6. Make sure the timing is retarded!!

7. Turn the ignition on -- sometimes we get a free start in a T if we are using a battery.
8. Engage the crank close to the 8 o'clock position and cup your hand under the crank handle with your thumb under the handle - not over it. Use what ever hand you want!

9. Give the handle a swift pull upwards and pray that the starting god's are with you.

10. When it goes put -put advance the timing

11. Adjust the hand throttle

700rpm · 11-11-2013, 02:25 PM

My dad used to have a wire attached to the choke of his A, and ran it through the radiator so he could close the choke while cranking. He had a strong arm and always used his right hand, which is how he taught me.

bart78 · 11-11-2013, 02:32 PM

I was all ways taught to use my left. That way when you crank it. You are all out of the way. Or that's how my grandfather all ways showed me.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 11-11-2013, 08:55 PM

Well, once I put a temporary choke string on Minerva & got everything set properly, & DANG----I COULDN'T EVEN PULL HER OVER, NOT EVEN 1 (ONE) COMPRESSION STROKE, GASP!!
BUT, I jacked up her L/H hind wheel & putt'er in high gear & wheel cranked her!!
I DON'T suggest you try this!!! Chief taught me the SAFE way to do this, & he said ONLY do it in an EXTREME EMERGENCY!!!! Bill W.

nhusa · 11-12-2013, 12:54 PM

Bill describes a trick used by the T guys when it is cold.

The motor and transmission oil are the same so it can be pretty stiff when the oil is thickened by cold weather. It doesn't allow the clutches to release all the way. (actually it is thick oil between the clutches - like a fluid coupling! )

Two things happen - 1. It is hard to crank and 2. unless the brake is firmly set the car will try to move forward.
Moving forward is a bad thing - especially if your in front of the car.

Because I'm a bit lazy, I always jack a rear wheel on my T when first starting it so there is the least amount of resistance.

The fun thing is that I get free starts about 75% of the time because I use the battery

Once it is running I switch to the magneto - but that is a different story

Ed in Maine · 11-12-2013, 05:05 PM

I always use my right arm to start my Model T. It just seems more natural to me. However, if you Google "How to hand crank a Model T" you will find a U- Tube video of a man starting the T with his left hand. This does make sense because you get your arm and body outside of the rotation of the crank, out of the way of the crank after the stroke.

Having the spark retarded of course is very important so that the engine does not rotate backwards taking the crank out of your hand and around to hit the back of your arm. Whenever I work on my Model T timing, I always remove the number 1 spark plug and visually see the number one piston heading down about 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch and then watching a volt/ohm meter indicating the timer contacts have closed. With the Model A, you would be watching for the points to open just after the number one piston is heading down past TDC. When the car is properly timed and retarded, the engine seems to just hop of the crank. You can tell quite easily when it will start because the crank moves so easy at the end of the stroke. Oh, it is just so much fun which the modern car owner does not get to have! Ed

11-09-2013, 04:13 AM	#2
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: First crank start! GREAT JOB. It's always a treat at car shows showing kids of all ages how it's done. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

11-09-2013, 01:02 PM	#3
Allanw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 298	Re: First crank start! I'll sure be trying it more often now! __________________ Allan '29 Tudor, Canadian RHD Whangarei, NZ "Duct Tape can't fix stupid, but it can MUFFLE the sound"

11-09-2013, 03:04 PM	#4
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Re: First crank start! Don't forget to retard the spark. I have a 1914 T and its like a kitten with the spark retarded. O'boy if you forget to retard the spark, it is really nasty! As good operating practice always retard the spark prior to shutting off the engine. In addition to not breaking your arm, this also eliminates the possibility of damaging the starter shaft. Ed

11-09-2013, 05:41 PM	#5
Barber31 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 687	Re: First crank start! Where is the correct thumb position?

11-10-2013, 03:20 AM	#10
Allanw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 298	Re: First crank start! Hmmm... Dad did it left handed... But we're in NZ, so everything spins the other way, because of the Coriolis effect __________________ Allan '29 Tudor, Canadian RHD Whangarei, NZ "Duct Tape can't fix stupid, but it can MUFFLE the sound"

11-09-2013, 02:29 AM	#1
Allanw Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Whangarei, New Zealand Posts: 298	First crank start! Started the "A" for the first time with the crank today! We have been doing some small jobs, and the battery had run down while it wasn't used for the last month or so. We had the charger on, but not for long enough. We set everything up, pressed the starter button and Rrrr Rrrrrrrrr was all we got. We sat in the car thinking about pushing it uphill to the road, but the driveway is probably a touch steep. THEN I thought... DUH! It's got a crank handle! So we pulled out the crank handle and put it in place. Dad grabbed the handle (thumb in the right place!) and gave it a testing pull, to get a feel for the load, and force required to crank it over... Bugger me, the thing started and sat there running! It's easier to crank start than the lawnmower! __________________ Allan '29 Tudor, Canadian RHD Whangarei, NZ "Duct Tape can't fix stupid, but it can MUFFLE the sound"

11-10-2013, 04:05 PM	#11
Ken/SC Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 92	Re: First crank start! #1 rule. Make sure the car is out of gear, Our your arms will not be your only problem.

11-11-2013, 12:44 PM	#14
nhusa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 549	Re: First crank start! When I first saw the title I said to myself "What's the big deal?" - Then I remembered that you A guys seldom have the need to crank a car. My other non-modern is a 1919 T without a starter so I have to crank it. One way to "start an argument" is to open the discussion about which hand to use when cranking a car. There are some that claim you are guaranteed to brake your arm unless you crank with your left hand and other that "live dangerously" by insisting they are OK by using their right. I learned to use my right hand so I guess I'm living in constant danger! For those that need a primer - 1. Neutral is a must 2. Retard the spark (timing) 3. Open the hand throttle a bit 4. Ignition off 5. A few cranks with the choke closed usually helps - but it depends on the car. 6. Make sure the timing is retarded!! 7. Turn the ignition on -- sometimes we get a free start in a T if we are using a battery. 8. Engage the crank close to the 8 o'clock position and cup your hand under the crank handle with your thumb under the handle - not over it. Use what ever hand you want! 9. Give the handle a swift pull upwards and pray that the starting god's are with you. 10. When it goes put -put advance the timing 11. Adjust the hand throttle

11-11-2013, 02:25 PM	#15
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: First crank start! My dad used to have a wire attached to the choke of his A, and ran it through the radiator so he could close the choke while cranking. He had a strong arm and always used his right hand, which is how he taught me. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

11-11-2013, 02:32 PM	#16
bart78 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Stephenville tx Posts: 1,019	Re: First crank start! I was all ways taught to use my left. That way when you crank it. You are all out of the way. Or that's how my grandfather all ways showed me.

11-11-2013, 08:55 PM	#17
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: First crank start! Well, once I put a temporary choke string on Minerva & got everything set properly, & DANG----I COULDN'T EVEN PULL HER OVER, NOT EVEN 1 (ONE) COMPRESSION STROKE, GASP!! BUT, I jacked up her L/H hind wheel & putt'er in high gear & wheel cranked her!! I DON'T suggest you try this!!! Chief taught me the SAFE way to do this, & he said ONLY do it in an EXTREME EMERGENCY!!!! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

11-12-2013, 12:54 PM	#18
nhusa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 549	Re: First crank start! Bill describes a trick used by the T guys when it is cold. The motor and transmission oil are the same so it can be pretty stiff when the oil is thickened by cold weather. It doesn't allow the clutches to release all the way. (actually it is thick oil between the clutches - like a fluid coupling! ) Two things happen - 1. It is hard to crank and 2. unless the brake is firmly set the car will try to move forward. Moving forward is a bad thing - especially if your in front of the car. Because I'm a bit lazy, I always jack a rear wheel on my T when first starting it so there is the least amount of resistance. The fun thing is that I get free starts about 75% of the time because I use the battery Once it is running I switch to the magneto - but that is a different story

11-12-2013, 05:05 PM	#19
Ed in Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cty., ME or Flagler Cty., FL Posts: 1,106	Re: First crank start! I always use my right arm to start my Model T. It just seems more natural to me. However, if you Google "How to hand crank a Model T" you will find a U- Tube video of a man starting the T with his left hand. This does make sense because you get your arm and body outside of the rotation of the crank, out of the way of the crank after the stroke. Having the spark retarded of course is very important so that the engine does not rotate backwards taking the crank out of your hand and around to hit the back of your arm. Whenever I work on my Model T timing, I always remove the number 1 spark plug and visually see the number one piston heading down about 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch and then watching a volt/ohm meter indicating the timer contacts have closed. With the Model A, you would be watching for the points to open just after the number one piston is heading down past TDC. When the car is properly timed and retarded, the engine seems to just hop of the crank. You can tell quite easily when it will start because the crank moves so easy at the end of the stroke. Oh, it is just so much fun which the modern car owner does not get to have! Ed