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Old 06-02-2020, 08:33 AM   #1
banditomerc
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Default 1940 merc & ford

Do these 1940 mercury and 1940 ford share the same frame dimensions from firewalls forward.?
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

No. There is 4 extra inches of frame & wheelbase on the Mercury. Fords & Mercury cars in 39 & 40 share very little of anything in the frame or body.
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Old 06-02-2020, 07:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Are mercury frames of 1940 wider as well?
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

I don't think they are wider but I have no information on frame width for the 1st Gen Mercs and Wescott's doesn't have the Mercury frame dimensions. The Ford frames from 1935 through 1940 passenger cars are very near 44" in width. They did use the same type axles front and rear so track width is almost the same front & rear (wheels being slightly different widths).
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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Originally Posted by banditomerc View Post
Are mercury frames of 1940 wider as well?
IF it helps I measured my 39 Mercury 4 door at the B pillar and it as best I can measure 46-1/4 wide outer frame rail to outer frame rail
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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1939 and 1940 Mercury wishbones are 4" longer than Fords.
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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1939 and 1940 Mercury wishbones are 4" longer than Fords.

Are you talking about FRONT, or REAR wishbones? IF FRONT bones, exactly how (what, and direction) are you measuring to get that figure? I'm REALLY interested in this stuff! DD
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Old 06-04-2020, 05:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

The front are wish bones. The rear are called radius rods or trailing arms. The Merc wish bone is 4" longer than the 39-40 Fords. The 39 Merc wish bone is the same length as the 42-48 Lincoln wish bone. I can't answer for the 39-40 Lincolns.
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Old 06-04-2020, 07:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Lincolns were unit body if I remember correctly. The 1st Gen Mercury did have it's own front radius rod assembly but I would want to know the dimensions. They may only be 2-inches longer since the Mercury has the longer drive train and they used a different radius rod ball cap. We would like to know but it would be nice to have proof of inspection & dimension. The 2nd Gen Mercury used the Ford front radius rod assembly with a ball cap adapter to get it to fit the frame. They gradually got more commonality with the Ford products in the 2nd Gen years. After 1941 the bodies were sharing a lot of commonality with Ford.

Wish bone is just a reference to what they look like. They are all radius rods. Even the engine & transmission had radius rods in the early V8 days.
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Are you talking about FRONT, or REAR wishbones? IF FRONT bones, exactly how (what, and direction) are you measuring to get that figure? I'm REALLY interested in this stuff! DD
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The front are wish bones. The rear are called radius rods or trailing arms. The Merc wish bone is 4" longer than the 39-40 Fords. The 39 Merc wish bone is the same length as the 42-48 Lincoln wish bone. I can't answer for the 39-40 Lincolns.

Believe me, I KNOW the difference between a Ford wishbone and a pair of radius rods. The reason I asked the way I did is because too many folks either don't pay attention, or will not use the correct or precise nomenclature when talkin' this stuff. Not unlike above, I precisely asked what direction or method was used to determine that "4-inch longer" measurement of the Merc 'bones over the like-year Ford wishbone. I thought I was explicitly clear with my inquiry, but merely got a repeat of the original statement about the Merc 'wish bone' being 4" longer than the '39 and '40 Ford wishbone. SO, to repeat....is the Mercury wishbone 4" taller than the same-year Ford 'bones measured from floor to ball (when leaning against a wall), or is that additional 4" length found when comparing the lengths of the legs from the ball to a spring shackle mount? The reason I ask is because a 1941 Ford wishbone (a one-year-ONLY piece) is about 4" taller (floor to ball) than a '37-'40 wishbone when both are leaned against a wall.


For what it's worth, the Lincoln I-beams/spindles/king pins are as different as night and day when compared with Ford/Mercury front axles and associated parts. DD
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

NEED/WANT more measurements???? In the "rear end" post I believe I posted picks of the front end from center of ball to center of King Pin, about 45" if memory serves me!!! BUT I can pull more measurements and pictures IF you like???
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Here is a picture of a 39-40 Mercury wish bone that was cut at the weld. I had a 40 Ford wish bone and this Mercury wish bone. I measured both of them and the Mercury was 4" longer. I am using the one pictured in a traditional car that I am building.
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File Type: jpg IMG_8372.jpg (67.9 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8373.jpg (70.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8382.jpg (64.0 KB, 9 views)
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Old 06-05-2020, 10:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

While the individual right and left sides may be that long, the triangular shape changes the distance from the center of a line intersecting the two perch pins to the center of the radius ball to somewhat less than 4-inches. The 1st Gen Mercury with 99A front radius rod assembly may be 4-inches longer from front to rear but it will take an intact part from each car to verify that.

The measurement that was posted by rockfla seems to differ but the front axle does have caster angle built in so I guess it depends on which end of the perch mount is used for the measurement of center perch to center ball. Each individual part number of radius rod assembly would need to be measured the same way to at least be able to ID them by dimension. Measurement procedures should be the same and best done off the car. I wouldn't ask someone to dismantle their car for that.

Model A, 1932, and 1933/34 as well as later Ford car radius rods have been measured this way and these figures can be found but the Mercury changes things a good bit so this is the only reason for the question.
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Old 06-05-2020, 12:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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Originally Posted by 26 lakes View Post
Here is a picture of a 39-40 Mercury wish bone that was cut at the weld. I had a 40 Ford wish bone and this Mercury wish bone. I measured both of them and the Mercury was 4" longer. I am using the one pictured in a traditional car that I am building.

Hey 26 ...NOW we're cookin'! I certainly appreciate you clarifying your method, and the accurate description of just what you measured. Your measurements serve clear and meaningful purpose, now. DD
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
While the individual right and left sides may be that long, the triangular shape changes the distance from the center of a line intersecting the two perch pins to the center of the radius ball to somewhat less than 4-inches. The 1st Gen Mercury with 99A front radius rod assembly may be 4-inches longer from front to rear but it will take an intact part from each car to verify that.

The measurement that was posted by rockfla seems to differ but the front axle does have caster angle built in so I guess it depends on which end of the perch mount is used for the measurement of center perch to center ball. Each individual part number of radius rod assembly would need to be measured the same way to at least be able to ID them by dimension. Measurement procedures should be the same and best done off the car. I wouldn't ask someone to dismantle their car for that.

Model A, 1932, and 1933/34 as well as later Ford car radius rods have been measured this way and these figures can be found but the Mercury changes things a good bit so this is the only reason for the question.

Don't allow yourself to believe that these front, I-beam axles have the caster angle "built-in", 'cuz they don't! Such a statement would imply that these axles also have a front and a rear....they DON'T, dimensionally. The king pin bores as well as the perch pin bores in these axles are dead-straight vertically aligned with the upright axle as a whole when viewed from either end. As an aside, the king pin lock-bolt bores are NOT tapered from front to rear as some folks would have you believe, either. Hence, the prescribed CASTER angle for the vehicle's front axle is determined by the angle created by the perch pin positioning holes in the wishbone's two front "fork" forgings which are welded into the front of the two tubes, working in conjunction with the up/down angle of the wishbone's rear end, pre-determined by the wishbone ball's captive location.


My whole reason for interest in any of this has come to light by this loosely-thrown-around 4" figure we keep hearing reference to. I had earlier made reference to the fact that I had discovered by accident that a '41 FORD wishbone is a one-year-only piece when I stood one up against a wall, next to a '40 wishbone also standing against the wall. As I remember, there was ABOUT a 3" or 4" difference in height of the two balls. MOST folks don't realize this. '41 FORD front suspensions have some odd, and unique things going-on! We know that '42-'48 'bones are different because of the slight "goose-neck" toward the front of each leg. After hearing that the 99A-3405 Mercury wishbone is 'SOMETHING LIKE' 4-inches longer than a '37-'40 FORD wishbone, I'm wondering if FORD didn't use the same 99A- Mercury wishbone on the '41 FORDS. I'm not close to any parts books at the moment, but can someone look-up the part number for a '41 FORD wishbone? If it's unique unto itself, the prefix should be "11A-". If it's the '39 Merc wishbone being re-purposed, it'll have that "99A-" prefix. Anyone? DD
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

V8coopman
We also have a 41 4 door IF you need I can get measurement from it ALL BE IT a little more difficult for me as I have not moved that car over to my house yet SO I would have to go to my Dad's and at this point, Unfortunately cannot get it on my lift YET!!!!
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Old 06-05-2020, 01:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

V8coopman, it is listed as 11A-3405 and is for one year only. Guess it is possible the Merc used that part number as well, but don't have any way of checking that.
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

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V8coopman, it is listed as 11A-3405 and is for one year only. Guess it is possible the Merc used that part number as well, but don't have any way of checking that.

JS.....Thank you for looking that up. It's obvious that the '41 "11A-" Ford 'bone has something different about it than a '39-'41 "99A-" Mercury wishbone. Ford didn't normally create a NEW number for a "same" part used on a Mercury, or vise versa. For instance J, look-up a '39 Merc front axle. I'd be willing to bet that it's the same front axle as that in any '37-'41 Ford, and as such, will likely have a number like "78-3010". The "78" is Ford-speak for the year 1937 (during which there were still no Mercs). "3010" is obviously Ford-speak for any FRONT, I-beam Axle. Whichever brand (Ford or Merc) used a multi-brand part first, that part number remains unchanged for BOTH brand applications. DD
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Here is what I got!
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Old 06-05-2020, 08:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1940 merc & ford

Well, looks like they were the same one year, 41.
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