The Ford Barn

fts1966 · 02-15-2018, 10:42 AM

Okay doing research for the engine rebuild. my engine looks to have the original no adjustment tappets. I want to do adjustable ones. I would like know and understand the differences and if one is better or easier to adjust than the other.

Single self locking style?

Double self locking style?

SeaSlugs · 02-15-2018, 10:44 AM

ive heard double is better as you can lock it down harder - if the single gets loose theres no way else to lock it down besides some form of locktite.

wrndln · 02-15-2018, 12:38 PM

I tried to use the double lock tappets for the reason above. However, I gave up and sold them and bought the single lock type. The reason was it was a real pain to try to get a wrench (even the thin tappet type) on the lower nut. I had to release the valve spring to get the bottom nut exposed enough to get a wrench on it. Maybe I just didn't know how to adjust double lock tappets, but I had no problems whatsoever with the single lock type.
Rusty Nelson

Tom Wesenberg · 02-15-2018, 12:55 PM

More important that single or double nut is the base diameter. If it's too small, the cam and tappets can be wiped out. The cam lobe must NOT strike the very outer edge of the tappet because it won't last long.

Jim Brierley · 02-15-2018, 12:57 PM

I prefer the single-lock for the same reason Rusty does. I have built and raced several engines and have never had one loosen on me. My procedure is to to install crank, lifters and cam only, before putting pistons in, this allows you to turn the engine over easily. I use the system of 9's and first adjust a lobe using your thumb to hold the valve closed when measuring clearance. You can easily lift the tappet to adjust, eliminating the need to constantly rotate the engine until that tappet is adjusted. I then install the springs and recheck the clearance. Good luck!

700rpm · 02-15-2018, 01:07 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

I prefer the single-lock for the same reason Rusty does. I have built and raced several engines and have never had one loosen on me. My procedure is to to install crank, lifters and cam only, before putting pistons in, this allows you to turn the engine over easily. I use the system of 9's and first adjust a lobe using your thumb to hold the valve closed when measuring clearance. You can easily lift the tappet to adjust, eliminating the need to constantly rotate the engine until that tappet is adjusted. I then install the springs and recheck the clearance. Good luck!

Jim, that constant rotation can be a pain. But I am curious how you measure the correct piston location, and therefore the correct cam lobe position, without the pistons.

SteveB31 · 02-15-2018, 06:37 PM

Be careful what you buy. We build engines. Their are two national vendors that are having Chinese ones made that suck in many ways. They retail for around $85 set. the good ones are USA made by Colony and are $100 set. You can get the good ones from Bert's or Snyders.

Steve @ Bert's
modelastore.com

michael a · 02-15-2018, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Jim, that constant rotation can be a pain. But I am curious how you measure the correct piston location, and therefore the correct cam lobe position, without the pistons.

Everything should be in order when you put the crankshaft in and the timing marks between crank and camshaft line or am I missing something here

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

fts1966 · 02-15-2018, 07:51 PM

Thanks for the information i will most likely go with the single and make sure they are us made.

katy · 02-16-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
Jim, that constant rotation can be a pain. But I am curious how you measure the correct piston location, and therefore the correct cam lobe position, without the pistons.

Quote:

Everything should be in order when you put the crankshaft in and the timing marks between crank and camshaft line or am I missing something here

Adjust valve clearance when the lifter is on the heel of the cam, it doesn't matter where the piston is.

Jim Brierley · 02-16-2018, 12:17 PM

700, when #1 valve is fully open, adjust #8 valve 8+1=9. With #2 up, adjust #7, etc. etc. Some Model A books will tell you that you can adjust several valves at the same time, this doesn't work on a performance cam.

redmodelt · 02-16-2018, 08:50 PM

re; More important that single or double nut is the base diameter. If it's too small, the cam and tappets can be wiped out. The cam lobe must NOT strike the very outer edge of the tappet because it won't last long.

The original base was about 1 1/8" this is the size you would want to be using. Some of the repos only have 1" which can cause issues with the lobs on your cam as Tom said.

700rpm · 02-16-2018, 09:24 PM

Katy and Jim, I understand and use that 9 system when I can see and measure the position of the pistons in the cylinders, as when the head is off. But when the engine is assembled, I can see neither the cam lobes nor the pistons, so I set #8, for example, when#1 looks fully open. But a couple degrees off can effect the clearance, no? So I get #1 where it looks like it’s fully open, but it’s just a guess relying on my eyeball. I don’t really know if it is on the heel of the cam or not. See my problem?

BTW, this isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve struggled with this question for years.

And my cars all run fine, so just how critical is that clearance anyway? I’ve read everything from i010/e015 to set ‘em all at 015. And I’ve heard it said, “Better to hear ‘em than burn ‘em.” And I believe that.

PC/SR · 02-16-2018, 10:11 PM

I adjust the valves one at at time. You can eyeball when the lobe is fully up, ie, the valve is fully open. Then rotate the crank pulley one full revolution, which rotates the camshaft 180 degrees, and the lifter will be on the heel of the cam and in the correct position to be adjusted. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that when the piston is at top dead center (and both valves are closed) that the cam lifters are on the heal of the cam. They are not, and any adjustment in that position will be off.

katy · 02-17-2018, 10:09 AM

Quote:

I adjust the valves one at at time. You can eyeball when the lobe is fully up, ie, the valve is fully open. Then rotate the crank pulley one full revolution, which rotates the camshaft 180 degrees, and the lifter will be on the heel of the cam and in the correct position to be adjusted.

Ditto

Jim Brierley · 02-17-2018, 12:11 PM

Like PC/SR and katy, I just eyeball things. A few degrees will make no difference.

Pete · 02-17-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fts1966

Okay doing research for the engine rebuild. my engine looks to have the original no adjustment tappets. I want to do adjustable ones. I would like know and understand the differences and if one is better or easier to adjust than the other.

Single self locking style?

Double self locking style?

These are NOT the first questions you need to be asking.
You need to first and foremost, determine what cam you have. Most aftermarket PERFORMANCE cams are designed to run on a 1 inch diameter face, lifter. The double lock lifters fall in this category.
However, you can run the single lock lifters on these cams with no bad effects.
If you have a stock or a reground stock cam you need the single lock lifters because they have a face close to the diameter of the original Ford lifters. (approx 1.125)
The stock cams have no clearance ramps so it requires a larger face lifter.

fts1966 · 02-18-2018, 10:14 AM

PETE,

Thank you. that is very good information im running the original cam reground.
I have the information written down in my book now for what to use and why.
I appreciate the answer to my question.

Dave in MN · 02-19-2018, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

More important that single or double nut is the base diameter. If it's too small, the cam and tappets can be wiped out. The cam lobe must NOT strike the very outer edge of the tappet because it won't last long.

Colony is the name of the manufacturer that has the correct diameter base of about 1-1/8" needed to avoid camshaft damage. I use their single lock tappets with good results. Never had one loosen...
Good Day!

midgetracer · 02-19-2018, 08:30 PM

After reading this thread, I panicked and checked the adjustable tappets that I had purchased a few years ago to build a spare engine for my Model As. I checked them and sure as hell, they are about 1/8 inch smaller in base diameter than stock ones. I am not even sure where I purchased them, so return is not an option. They are exactly the width of the cam lobes. Will these cause problems for my cam? Should I just junk them and buy good ones? Being car poor, I have waited to assemble this engine and another $100 seems like a lot right now, but early failure of this engine would be even more expensive. What do you think.... A. give up beer?

...B. put the junk tappets on Ebay and pass along the problem?

..C. Wait for my ship to come in?

D. use the tappets and go to church a bit more often?

No option seems right. Seriously would I have much of a chance of getting by with these tappets ?

02-15-2018, 12:38 PM	#3
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,159	Re: Tappets? I tried to use the double lock tappets for the reason above. However, I gave up and sold them and bought the single lock type. The reason was it was a real pain to try to get a wrench (even the thin tappet type) on the lower nut. I had to release the valve spring to get the bottom nut exposed enough to get a wrench on it. Maybe I just didn't know how to adjust double lock tappets, but I had no problems whatsoever with the single lock type. Rusty Nelson

02-15-2018, 12:55 PM	#4
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Tappets? More important that single or double nut is the base diameter. If it's too small, the cam and tappets can be wiped out. The cam lobe must NOT strike the very outer edge of the tappet because it won't last long.

02-15-2018, 12:57 PM	#5
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,085	Re: Tappets? I prefer the single-lock for the same reason Rusty does. I have built and raced several engines and have never had one loosen on me. My procedure is to to install crank, lifters and cam only, before putting pistons in, this allows you to turn the engine over easily. I use the system of 9's and first adjust a lobe using your thumb to hold the valve closed when measuring clearance. You can easily lift the tappet to adjust, eliminating the need to constantly rotate the engine until that tappet is adjusted. I then install the springs and recheck the clearance. Good luck!

02-15-2018, 07:51 PM	#9
fts1966 Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: kansas city mo Posts: 34	Re: Tappets? Thanks for the information i will most likely go with the single and make sure they are us made.

02-16-2018, 12:17 PM	#11
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,085	Re: Tappets? 700, when #1 valve is fully open, adjust #8 valve 8+1=9. With #2 up, adjust #7, etc. etc. Some Model A books will tell you that you can adjust several valves at the same time, this doesn't work on a performance cam.

02-15-2018, 10:42 AM	#1
fts1966 Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: kansas city mo Posts: 34	Tappets? Okay doing research for the engine rebuild. my engine looks to have the original no adjustment tappets. I want to do adjustable ones. I would like know and understand the differences and if one is better or easier to adjust than the other. Single self locking style? Double self locking style?

02-15-2018, 10:44 AM	#2
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Tappets? ive heard double is better as you can lock it down harder - if the single gets loose theres no way else to lock it down besides some form of locktite. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

02-15-2018, 06:37 PM	#7
SteveB31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 1,372	Re: Tappets? Be careful what you buy. We build engines. Their are two national vendors that are having Chinese ones made that suck in many ways. They retail for around $85 set. the good ones are USA made by Colony and are $100 set. You can get the good ones from Bert's or Snyders. Steve @ Bert's modelastore.com

02-16-2018, 08:50 PM	#12
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Tappets? re; More important that single or double nut is the base diameter. If it's too small, the cam and tappets can be wiped out. The cam lobe must NOT strike the very outer edge of the tappet because it won't last long. The original base was about 1 1/8" this is the size you would want to be using. Some of the repos only have 1" which can cause issues with the lobs on your cam as Tom said. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

02-16-2018, 09:24 PM	#13
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,902	Re: Tappets? Katy and Jim, I understand and use that 9 system when I can see and measure the position of the pistons in the cylinders, as when the head is off. But when the engine is assembled, I can see neither the cam lobes nor the pistons, so I set #8, for example, when#1 looks fully open. But a couple degrees off can effect the clearance, no? So I get #1 where it looks like it’s fully open, but it’s just a guess relying on my eyeball. I don’t really know if it is on the heel of the cam or not. See my problem? BTW, this isn’t my first rodeo. I’ve struggled with this question for years. And my cars all run fine, so just how critical is that clearance anyway? I’ve read everything from i010/e015 to set ‘em all at 015. And I’ve heard it said, “Better to hear ‘em than burn ‘em.” And I believe that. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole. Last edited by 700rpm; 02-16-2018 at 09:30 PM.

02-16-2018, 10:11 PM	#14
PC/SR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 1,278	Re: Tappets? I adjust the valves one at at time. You can eyeball when the lobe is fully up, ie, the valve is fully open. Then rotate the crank pulley one full revolution, which rotates the camshaft 180 degrees, and the lifter will be on the heel of the cam and in the correct position to be adjusted. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that when the piston is at top dead center (and both valves are closed) that the cam lifters are on the heal of the cam. They are not, and any adjustment in that position will be off.

02-17-2018, 12:11 PM	#16
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,085	Re: Tappets? Like PC/SR and katy, I just eyeball things. A few degrees will make no difference.

02-18-2018, 10:14 AM	#18
fts1966 Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: kansas city mo Posts: 34	Re: Tappets? PETE, Thank you. that is very good information im running the original cam reground. I have the information written down in my book now for what to use and why. I appreciate the answer to my question.

02-19-2018, 08:30 PM	#20
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Tappets? After reading this thread, I panicked and checked the adjustable tappets that I had purchased a few years ago to build a spare engine for my Model As. I checked them and sure as hell, they are about 1/8 inch smaller in base diameter than stock ones. I am not even sure where I purchased them, so return is not an option. They are exactly the width of the cam lobes. Will these cause problems for my cam? Should I just junk them and buy good ones? Being car poor, I have waited to assemble this engine and another $100 seems like a lot right now, but early failure of this engine would be even more expensive. What do you think.... A. give up beer?...B. put the junk tappets on Ebay and pass along the problem? ..C. Wait for my ship to come in? D. use the tappets and go to church a bit more often? No option seems right. Seriously would I have much of a chance of getting by with these tappets ?