Transmission problem

[metro1]

I have a 59 Galaxie with a 2 speed automatic. I have only driven it around the neighborhood a few times just to see if everything works. I have noticed when I start it in park it seems to slightly lunge forward. Same thing when I rev the engine. It doesn't move much but it seems the trans. in partially in gear.

[KULTULZ]

Check your NSS (NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH) adjustment.

It may be allowing the car to start in gear.

[rotorwrench]

I would be curious about the proper adjustment of the linkage. There should be no clutch pistons or bands gripping in park or neutral. Park has a pawl to hold the car but it still shouldn't try to creep or move at all.

[metro1]

I'll have to check the linkage and see if it's where it's supposed to be.

[metro1]

Apparently the forward clutch is not adjusted properly or is stuck causing the transmission to always be partially in gear according to others having the same problem with other cars.

[rotorwrench]

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The aluminum case 2-speed Ford-O-Matic was not real popular. It was mostly used with smaller engines like the 144/170 6-cylinders and some 221 & 260 V8 applications in Falcons and Fairlane types. They were also use in some 292 Y-blocks and the 223/262 6-cylinders before the C4 came out in 1964.

Bands can be adjusted but clutch packs are either on or off. If a piston seal came apart then pieces might jam the piston up. If the clutch pack has springs then springs may be broken. Could be a sticky valve in the valve body. Bands can be adjusted but that's about it. The early ones before 1961 had TV valve control from the throttle linkage to set up operating pressure for throttle position. This changed in 1961 when they finally put vacuum modulators on the Ford transmissions. The valve position can be adjusted to give the proper pressure for shifting and the like and it is adjustable. It's generally only adjusted to get either a softer shift or a harder shift depending on what the operator wants.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by metro1

Apparently the forward clutch is not adjusted properly or is stuck causing the transmission to always be partially in gear according to others having the same problem with other cars.

This trans still used the FORD-O-MATIC THROTTLE VALVE SYSTEM and correct TV LINKAGE ADJ is paramount. I would verify correct linkage(s) adj before going into the trans itself.

If the linkage adj is off, it may allow the NSS to not operate correctly.

Do you have the F/M/2 SHOP MANUAL?

[cadillac512]

Metro, does the trans do the same thing after being fully warmed up (like a longer drive?) You may want to see if that changes things...many C4 transmissions also do the same thing when cold and it is not a problem. My '66 Fairlane will move forward a couple inches in park or neutral when started cold but not when warmed up, and the linkage and adjustments are correct. A quick search online will show many examples of this.



Terry

[metro1]

This car is still a "work in progress" so I haven't been able to drive it except around the block a few times before I pulled it apart. I don't remember if it was a problem then. The seats have been removed but I am able to start it up and let it run for a bit. That's when I noticed the creep forward when it starts. It does the same thing in neutral and park. It could be that it's not a problem like you said. My biggest concern is the fluid dripping from the front of the transmission while it's running. I'll look more into that when I get past the never ending rust repair which I'm not really good at so it's going slow.

[cadillac512]

Yes, the leak from the front while running doesn't bode well. Pump seal or gasket is a common cause. Let's hope it's simple!


I hear you on the rust repair...I'm not good at it either.

[KULTULZ]

That's when I noticed the creep forward when it starts. It does the same thing in neutral and park. It could be that it's not a problem like you said.

It will be a very large problem if it decides to start in range (with the fast idle cam set).

You ever see one start and knock the garage wall down?

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by metro1

This car is still a "work in progress" so I haven't been able to drive it except around the block a few times before I pulled it apart. I don't remember if it was a problem then. The seats have been removed but I am able to start it up and let it run for a bit. That's when I noticed the creep forward when it starts. It does the same thing in neutral and park. It could be that it's not a problem like you said. My biggest concern is the fluid dripping from the front of the transmission while it's running. I'll look more into that when I get past the never ending rust repair which I'm not really good at so it's going slow.

Like Terry said, not a problem a lot of them do that when the oil is cold,
Bill

[KULTULZ]

I noticed the creep forward when it starts. It does the same thing in neutral and park.

If the car moves when started in PARK, you have a problem, simple as that.

[cadillac512]

My bet, (and the OP can confirm) is the car creeps gently forward in Park only until the park pawl limits the creep. Likely two or three inches. It's really not unusual to us in the service and repair business to see this and it most likely will not be a problem with the manual valve or throttle valve adjustments, although of course it pays to check those.

[metro1]

That's exactly what is does. It won't really go anywhere it just has a slight forward movement of an inch or two when it starts.

[KULTULZ]

... the car creeps gently forward in Park only until the park pawl limits the creep

IF the SELECTOR SHIFT LINKAGE is in good condition and adjusted correctly ...

IF the PARKING PAWL is intact and adjusted correctly ...

IF the PARKING PAWL is not worn or decides to fracture ...

It's a 1959 MODEL, what possibly could be worn out?

I am going to leave this one alone ...

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by metro1

That's exactly what is does. It won't really go anywhere it just has a slight forward movement of an inch or two when it starts.

You have no problem.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

You have no problem.

You forgot to add (I)n (M)y (O)pinion.

Now if the car does take off you will personally warranty any and all damage(s)? That's my take on what you just posted.

liable

lī′ə-bəl

adjective

Legally obligated or responsible: synonym: responsible.

PS -

The only reason an AT car should move when started in PARK is if it has an oversized cooling fan and it pulls the car forward.

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

You forgot to add (I)n (M)y (O)pinion.

Now if the car does take off you will personally warranty any and all damage(s)? That's my take on what you just posted.



PS -

The only reason an AT car should move when started in PARK is if it has an oversized cooling fan and it pulls the car forward.

What do you suppose happens in the torque convertor when you rev the engine up? It is a fluid coupling and it drives the input shaft which is connected to the outer clutch drum, between the outer clutch drum and the clutch hub is a series of lined and unlined disc which are only a few thousands apart with oil between them. The drag between these discs will tend to rotate the planetary gears and output shaft causing a slight creep.
More so when the oil is cold/thicker.
It will do it in park or neutral, the only difference between park and neutral is the parking pawl is engaged in park.
Bill

[KULTULZ]

I think you might want to re-read the theory book on valving. If it creeps @ STARTUP/IDLE/FAST IDLE, what will the car do @ 2000 RPM?

If the car moves at STARTUP in PARK, there is a problem.

Telling a novice there is no problem is wrong.