The Ford Barn

Tim Ayers · 07-29-2022, 03:24 PM

I recently took in a fairly large collection of parts. In these parts, was a '32 trans and what I think is a '32 trans top. I haven't looked for part numbers, etc.

The top is slanted backward (making me think it isn't a '32), but has the bosses for an e-brake, so I'm assuming it may be for a '32-34.

Curious if these tops can be retro fitted with the later, 3" forks for the late '39-up rails and forks?

Reason I ask is I like the e-brake bosses and it eliminates the need to make a bracket for the e-brake when fitting it into a different configuration.

Thanks,

Brian · 07-29-2022, 04:57 PM

A member on here kindly modified mine so I could use the early top with the later forks...it involved cutting and welding both sets of forks. Not a straight forward swap.

Tim Ayers · 07-29-2022, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

A member on here kindly modified mine so I could use the early top with the later forks...it involved cutting and welding both sets of forks. Not a straight forward swap.

Thanks, Brian. Curious why the forks needed to be modified? Does the top put them in a different location?

Kurt in NJ · 07-29-2022, 05:27 PM

i used the later forks in my 36

Brian · 07-29-2022, 06:51 PM

From 36 the tower is the straight up and down version and will directly take the later fork[s].

Tim Ayers · 07-29-2022, 07:35 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

From 36 the tower is the straight up and down version and will directly take the later fork[s].

Ah, makes sense.

Bored&Stroked · 07-30-2022, 01:55 PM

If the shift tower has the hand-brake bosses, then it is a 32. I've seen guys cut/splice/weld up shift forks to "Frankenstein" them into the 32 - 34 tops, but it seems like a lot of work to me . . . and you won't have the double-detents that the good 39 top has.

Also, depending on where you're cutting/splicing/welding (and the technique/process used), I wonder if the heat treating on the fork faces is negatively affected?

Floyd · 07-30-2022, 07:34 PM

Tricky question and even trickier answer. When you mention "later" forks, they generally mean the 81A or the 91A forks for the later double detent straight up shift tower. The answer to that is NO,NO,NO. Nothing lines up, the motion is wrong, the placement of the front fork is in the wrong place with the wrong stroke, etc.
What can be done to the slant back 32 setup is to run the 68 series helical gearset to replace the straight cut low/reverse. The low/reverse fork needs to cut and a 68 fork section welded onto it in the correct position. This works perfectly, as I did it for my 32. It has the original slant top tower and all helical gears. Perfect!
The second/high fork does not need to be changed.
For those that think they need the "improved " 81A/91A syncronizer , you do not. A perfect early "donut" one works just fine.

Tim Ayers · 07-30-2022, 09:01 PM

Thank you all for the replies. I was just thinking as I was sorting out the parts.

cas3 · 07-30-2022, 09:50 PM

I have to agree with Floyd's post ... however I know people have done it. If you look at the slanted tower, and the straight tower from the bottom you can see that it cant work... but its been done. I believe the hard face surface would only be on the fork tips that engage the moving part, and not thru the whole fork. The fork itself is forged steel so certainly can be welded on if you only knew where to cut and weld. I would like to see a cutaway top so you could clearly see where the wrong fork lands, and where it should be to know where to cut and weld. Lucky for me, my cars are not perfect so I can cut the trans cover for the wrong late shift tower without loosing sleep

Tim Ayers · 07-31-2022, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cas3

I have to agree with Floyd's post ... however I know people have done it. If you look at the slanted tower, and the straight tower from the bottom you can see that it cant work... but its been done. I believe the hard face surface would only be on the fork tips that engage the moving part, and not thru the whole fork. The fork itself is forged steel so certainly can be welded on if you only knew where to cut and weld. I would like to see a cutaway top so you could clearly see where the wrong fork lands, and where it should be to know where to cut and weld. Lucky for me, my cars are not perfect so I can cut the trans cover for the wrong late shift tower without loosing sleep

Funny, after reading the replies, I did just that. I compared the two tops on the bench and can see all of the issues everyone mentioned.

Tim Ayers · 08-01-2022, 08:12 PM

Interesting follow up. I was surfing around and noticed Vern Tardell offers conversions for early tops to use later '39-up forks & rails. He charges $350 and its on an exchange basis.

cas3 · 08-01-2022, 08:22 PM

Thats interesting. So, the secret is not really a secret ! Who's got one to look at !

Detonator · 08-01-2022, 11:52 PM

The parking brake mount on my '35 is part of the rear trans mount. When I moved up to a '39 trans I used the '35 rear mount in order to easily mount the parking brake. BTW, '35's also had the tower that angled to the rear.

cas3 · 08-01-2022, 11:59 PM

The rear mount is interchangeable from 32 to 48, so that has nothing to do with the slanted tower.

Lawrie · 08-02-2022, 01:49 AM

I have done a few, the slant top shifter rails have the same travel as the 39 top.I have one in my 33 with a 46 guts and it has done lots of miles
Lawrie

JM 35 Sedan · 08-02-2022, 04:25 AM

I also converted the original transmission in my Avatar '35 fordor to the later '46-'48 gears, and used special shifting forks, carefully and accurately made by a friend, to fit into the stock, original '35 shift tower and use the original stock shift lever. Everything works perfectly without the need for a double detent mechanism used in the '39 shift tower. I've driven 3,000 + miles since completing this conversion and it works very well.

Bored&Stroked · 08-02-2022, 05:35 AM

Nice to hear what some have done to 'Frankenstein' the later shirt-forks into an early tower. Seems like a fun thing to try one day . . . though it would make sense to create a 'jig' to setup the two-parts for a welding operation.

If one had a good shift top from a 32 - 34 and a 39, would not be that hard to figure out the dimensional travel and overall lengths required - just a bit of precise measuring.

The hardest part is the cutting, prep work, fixturing aspect - the welding is not hard if things are correctly prepped, held and aligned.

07-29-2022, 03:24 PM	#1
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,179	Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? I recently took in a fairly large collection of parts. In these parts, was a '32 trans and what I think is a '32 trans top. I haven't looked for part numbers, etc. The top is slanted backward (making me think it isn't a '32), but has the bosses for an e-brake, so I'm assuming it may be for a '32-34. Curious if these tops can be retro fitted with the later, 3" forks for the late '39-up rails and forks? Reason I ask is I like the e-brake bosses and it eliminates the need to make a bracket for the e-brake when fitting it into a different configuration. Thanks,

07-29-2022, 04:57 PM	#2
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? A member on here kindly modified mine so I could use the early top with the later forks...it involved cutting and welding both sets of forks. Not a straight forward swap. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

07-29-2022, 05:27 PM	#4
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,159	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? i used the later forks in my 36

07-29-2022, 06:51 PM	#5
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,834	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? From 36 the tower is the straight up and down version and will directly take the later fork[s]. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

07-30-2022, 01:55 PM	#7
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? If the shift tower has the hand-brake bosses, then it is a 32. I've seen guys cut/splice/weld up shift forks to "Frankenstein" them into the 32 - 34 tops, but it seems like a lot of work to me . . . and you won't have the double-detents that the good 39 top has. Also, depending on where you're cutting/splicing/welding (and the technique/process used), I wonder if the heat treating on the fork faces is negatively affected?

07-30-2022, 07:34 PM	#8
Floyd Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 468	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? Tricky question and even trickier answer. When you mention "later" forks, they generally mean the 81A or the 91A forks for the later double detent straight up shift tower. The answer to that is NO,NO,NO. Nothing lines up, the motion is wrong, the placement of the front fork is in the wrong place with the wrong stroke, etc. What can be done to the slant back 32 setup is to run the 68 series helical gearset to replace the straight cut low/reverse. The low/reverse fork needs to cut and a 68 fork section welded onto it in the correct position. This works perfectly, as I did it for my 32. It has the original slant top tower and all helical gears. Perfect! The second/high fork does not need to be changed. For those that think they need the "improved " 81A/91A syncronizer , you do not. A perfect early "donut" one works just fine.

07-30-2022, 09:01 PM	#9
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,179	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? Thank you all for the replies. I was just thinking as I was sorting out the parts.

07-30-2022, 09:50 PM	#10
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,574	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? I have to agree with Floyd's post ... however I know people have done it. If you look at the slanted tower, and the straight tower from the bottom you can see that it cant work... but its been done. I believe the hard face surface would only be on the fork tips that engage the moving part, and not thru the whole fork. The fork itself is forged steel so certainly can be welded on if you only knew where to cut and weld. I would like to see a cutaway top so you could clearly see where the wrong fork lands, and where it should be to know where to cut and weld. Lucky for me, my cars are not perfect so I can cut the trans cover for the wrong late shift tower without loosing sleep

08-01-2022, 08:12 PM	#12
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,179	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? Interesting follow up. I was surfing around and noticed Vern Tardell offers conversions for early tops to use later '39-up forks & rails. He charges $350 and its on an exchange basis.

08-01-2022, 08:22 PM	#13
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,574	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? Thats interesting. So, the secret is not really a secret ! Who's got one to look at !

08-01-2022, 11:52 PM	#14
Detonator Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santa Cruz Posts: 391	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? The parking brake mount on my '35 is part of the rear trans mount. When I moved up to a '39 trans I used the '35 rear mount in order to easily mount the parking brake. BTW, '35's also had the tower that angled to the rear. __________________ Seabright Hot Rods

08-01-2022, 11:59 PM	#15
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: sw minnesota Posts: 4,574	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? The rear mount is interchangeable from 32 to 48, so that has nothing to do with the slanted tower.

08-02-2022, 01:49 AM	#16
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,215	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? I have done a few, the slant top shifter rails have the same travel as the 39 top.I have one in my 33 with a 46 guts and it has done lots of miles Lawrie

08-02-2022, 04:25 AM	#17
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? I also converted the original transmission in my Avatar '35 fordor to the later '46-'48 gears, and used special shifting forks, carefully and accurately made by a friend, to fit into the stock, original '35 shift tower and use the original stock shift lever. Everything works perfectly without the need for a double detent mechanism used in the '39 shift tower. I've driven 3,000 + miles since completing this conversion and it works very well. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 08-02-2022 at 04:30 AM.

08-02-2022, 05:35 AM	#18
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: Can an early trans top be fitting with later shift forks? Nice to hear what some have done to 'Frankenstein' the later shirt-forks into an early tower. Seems like a fun thing to try one day . . . though it would make sense to create a 'jig' to setup the two-parts for a welding operation. If one had a good shift top from a 32 - 34 and a 39, would not be that hard to figure out the dimensional travel and overall lengths required - just a bit of precise measuring. The hardest part is the cutting, prep work, fixturing aspect - the welding is not hard if things are correctly prepped, held and aligned.