Electronic ignitions

[Ron Lachniet]

What do you think about going to electronic ignitions like the FS. It seems like this could eliminate a lot of spark problems.

[ChicagoBob]

I've been running a Remund distributor since 2004. Cost $275. Works very well. Auto advance. Instant starts, even with the crank. Engine seems to run smoother and stronger than with the stock distributor, though mine might have been worn.

On the other hand, I'm still using points in my '78 Suzuki.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ron Lachniet

What do you think about going to electronic ignitions like the FS. It seems like this could eliminate a lot of spark problems.

While I am a proponent for FS Ignitions, ...I am intrigued (curious??) when you say it "...could eliminate a lot of spark problems". Would you be so kind as to clarify exactly what you are saying or what that means so I can determine in my own mind whether the Ignitor set-up is right for you. Thanks.

.

[Jim Brierley]

The Model A ignition system is a cause of many driving problems, I recommend the FS units.

[CarlG]

For those of you that have used both, pro's and con's between FS & NuRex??

[Loyd Nix]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I installed a FS "Zipper" in my "30 Tudor and noticed a definite improvement in performance. Plus FS is a pleasure to do business with.

[Ron Lachniet]

I am new to Model As and have no issues with my modern points, but it seems like more people have issues with points and condencers than most other things so I am trying to be proactive so I can enjoy a summers driving with one less concern. Thank you very much for your input.

[Roadster Rich]

I have run the FS Modern Ditributor (6V) for three years. Part way through my first year I tried to start it in the garage and nothing. Returned to FS. Looks like I must have burned out the igniter with the key left on? Don't remember doing that, but FS was excellent. I bought a replacement igniter and they sent back the unit with a new igniter and a spare that I bought. I still love the way it drives, but I keep a totally functional original distributor in the car in case this igniter dies at any time. Can't go wrong dealing with FS

[dan]

I put an FS zipper in my coupe a couple months back and I like the reliability. I'm not completely sold on the centrifugal advance because I haven't been able to get a timing light on it at high revs, but haven't had any problems.

I think because I have "speed stuff" on my engine (headers, Weber carb, hc head) the temps were killing condensers--I went through three condensers in five months . Not having to hassle with keeping spares and doing replacements at the same frequency as oil changes will be a nice feature.

Also nice is that anyone can drive my car now without my needing to explain or supervise use of the spark lever. Though I suppose there might be folks out there who like having an excuse for not having their car driven by others

[steve s]

I bought a Nurex unit several years ago, but before I got around to installing it, the "boxless" Pertronix unit came out and I went with that. I had to imagine there was a performance difference between my previous modern-point mod and the electronic, except (1) the coil sure gets hot at idle, (2) it draws about twice the amperage in that moment between turning on the key and actual starting, so you will drain the battery fast and possibly do some damage to the unit if you accidentallly leave the key on, (3) you can't use the trick about watching or listening for the spark at the points when you're setting the timing, and (4) I'm now one of the club members who NEVER has to stop along the road to reset his closed-up points.

I would be eager to sell the unused Nurex unit cheap if anyone is interested.

Steve

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Ron Lachniet

I am new to Model As and have no issues with my modern points, but it seems like more people have issues with points and condencers than most other things so I am trying to be proactive so I can enjoy a summers driving with one less concern. Thank you very much for your input.

I am running a completely stock and original ignition, except for a repro switch, which will get replaced with an original popout later. My car starts in one or tow compression strokes, even after setting 6 months untouched over the long Minnesota winters. It also starts in one or two compression strokes if I hand crank it, which I do sometimes just for fun. The repro switch gave me a problem with poor contacts until I took it apart and fixed it, but the original coil and distributor have never given me a problem.

The big advantage of this is, no extra cost, easy to fix on the road if there is a problem, and it's nice to keep the car as original as possible.

My original coil gives the spark plug good fire to start the mixture burning, and never misses, so I'm having a problem understanding how a spark from some other ignition is going to improve my car's performance.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Ron Lachniet

I am new to Model As and have no issues with my modern points, but it seems like more people have issues with points and condencers than most other things so I am trying to be proactive so I can enjoy a summers driving with one less concern. Thank you very much for your input.

I understand now. Quite honestly, the only reason I am a believer in with them is the timing (degrees before TDC) on all cylinders is totally equal rather than slight variations you get with all but NOS dist cams, ...and a little more coil saturation time (hotter spark). Earlier this week I had a customer that grossly overheated his engine and because the wiring on the FS Ignition burned where the vehicle could not be restarted, it probably saved the engine from further destruction.

One other thing I would like to point out is that using the FS Pertronix set-up will not cure problems resulting from a worn out distributer, ...which ironically, is the root problem of why most people have ignition problems to begin with IMHO.

.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by brent in 10-uh-c

one other thing i would like to point out is that using the fs pertronix set-up will not cure problems resulting from a worn out distributer, ...which ironically, is the root problem of why most people have ignition problems to begin with imho.

.

very true!!

[Kevin in NJ]

I know my brother's original points have been very unreliable.

After 40 years, the used points that came with the car in 1970 still work great. After the first 16 years dealing with old type condensers he got a new burn out proof condenser with a solder tab. The solder tab broke off. He ran it with the tab bent to touch the can for a bunch of years. He told A&L and they handed him a new spot welded tab condenser which he change out the working condenser a couple of years ago.

He has to baby his car these days after a rod lost it babbitt. He slid in another unmatched rod which unbalanced the engine some. He tries to keep in no faster then 55 MPH. Before he would run upwards of 65 MPH.

Yup, those original points with a modern burn out proof just can not be trusted and does not let the car perform well.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

I know my brother's original points have been very unreliable.

After 40 years, the used points that came with the car in 1970 still work great. After the first 16 years dealing with old type condensers he got a new burn out proof condenser with a solder tab. The solder tab broke off. He ran it with the tab bent to touch the can for a bunch of years. He told A&L and they handed him a new spot welded tab condenser which he change out the working condenser a couple of years ago.

He has to baby his car these days after a rod lost it babbitt. He slid in another unmatched rod which unbalanced the engine some. He tries to keep in no faster then 55 MPH. Before he would run upwards of 65 MPH.

Yup, those original points with a modern burn out proof just can not be trusted and does not let the car perform well.

Tongue in cheek??

[Dave in MN]

I have had a Nu-Rex unit in my Pheaton for over 50,000 miles. The only issue I have had with it was at about 12,000 miles when I lost good ground contact from the electronic module to the frame. It took about 400 miles of unreliable starts to trace the problem. I carry a spare module with me. I had to remove some of the stock components to install the Nu-Rex so simply switching back to a stock distributor on the road would be a bit of work. I have the removed components in a sealed container and carry it under the seat...just in case. With the fellow Model A people I travel or tour with, someone or two have a spare distributor ready to go. So I consider myself triple covered.
If I were purchasing an electronic ignition system now, I would purchase a unit that totally resides in the distributor. I would then carry a spare distributor with stock components in it as a back-up to the electronic unit. I am building an era hop up and plan to purchase an FS Ignition unit when it is ready to hit the road.
Good Day!
Dave in MN

[Kevin in NJ]

Yes Tongue in Cheek.

It never fails to amaze how people 'upgrade' to modern thinking it is more reliable.

Then you read about the spare distributer in the trunk and how it only took 400 miles to find a bad ground.

The electronic units have a use, but that is not on 99% of the Model A's running. If you are running hot engine you need the extra spark for the high compression.

Subtle stuff will upset an electronic module. Yes, done right they are fine. How many guys understand the electrics well enough to know right and wrong?

I just helped my brother fix a Ferrari Testerosa. It would not run right and the Ferrari guys couldn't figure it out. Turned out to be bad grounds to wire terminals and bad crimps on the wires. Real subtle stuff. Everyone else just assumed it was a fuel air delivery problem and played with all the screws.
The same stuff that could happen with how guys are going to wire in their electronic units on their A's. The Ferrari is just an over priced kit car using the same wire ends you see in guys shops. No steps were taken to keep weather from damaging the connections. A little of water, maybe some summer humidity and in 5 to 10 years the connections get a little extra resistance. Car will start to run strange and then what do you do?

Mean while the guy with the original distributer set up correct will probably be passing the car untouched to his son and his sons son.

I should add, I was just using Dave to put a point across (thanks Dave for being understanding).
Dave is running a high compression engine with many mods and the electronic ignition brings many advantages in his set up. Dave is a very experienced A builder and did what was best for his build. He did not just put the modern stuff on because it was new and should be better.

[John Butts in CT]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Mean while the guy with the original distributer set up correct will probably be passing the car untouched to his son and his sons son.

Just so, Kevin. I suspect that a good number of owners enjoy coaxing good, reliable performance out of original equipment. I know I do.

Convert an 18th century flintlock rifle to percussion ignition and it may fire every time, but it's no longer an 18th century flintlock rifle.

Everyone in every hobby has a right to do what they please.
I might choose a different path if I had to hunt for food, or if I had to drive my "A" every day. However, since my flintlocks and my Model A are hobbies, I'll stick with original ignition.

[Charlie Stephens]

A couple of important things to remember is if you have one of those new fangled systems and have a problem on a tour probably nobody will know how to fix it or have extra parts in their car. I watched a very nice newly purchased '31 woodie go home on a trailer for those reasons. If you get one, understand how it works and carry extra parts.

Charlie Stephens

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Ron Lachniet

What do you think about going to electronic ignitions like the FS. It seems like this could eliminate a lot of spark problems.

MY THOUGHTS ON ANOTHER THREAD=
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35352

We also offer a new Mallory unit for the Model A curved for auto matic advance. Comes complete with new cap and rotor, single contact for $ 150.

[Jordan]

I love FS. I have the new modern distributor in my car, with the centrifugal advance and i like it a lot. My brother has their unit that fits inside the normal model a distributor, and it also works very well. I've never heard of anyone having a problem with their distributors and I would recommend them to anyone.

[jerry shook]

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

[John Butts in CT]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

Improvements may be improvements, and each one may do its job differently (if not "better")... but I'll take George Washington's ax over a chainsaw any day when I'm cutting wood for fun

There's room in the hobby for all, so let's celebrate each other's enjoyment.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!!
www.bubbashotrodshop.com

"We also offer a new Mallory unit for the Model A curved for auto matic advance. Comes complete with new cap and rotor, single contact for $ 150."

Are you going to add it to your site and show us a picture?

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!!
www.bubbashotrodshop.com

"We also offer a new Mallory unit for the Model A curved for auto matic advance. Comes complete with new cap and rotor, single contact for $ 150."

Are you going to add it to your site and show us a picture?

Will do got some at the machine shop right now...

[roddyb34]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I have a Nissan electronic that i got for free ,did some minor machining to fit fires first kick every time ,runs as nice as the missing chunk of babbit on #4 will allow ,,

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

I've got a theory, ...and this is my opinion only but it is seemingly more apparent to me that people (even folks here) cannot do 'squat' anymore!! Folks cannot figure out, --or follow written instructions on how to adjust their brakes, ...thus automated adjusters are installed. People today have trouble setting & maintaining a set of ignition points. Thus ignition conversions are sold. Model A drivers apparently cannot learn to double-clutch, -thus synchromesh transmissions are installed, and ........ (you fill in the blank)!

IMHO, "Restorers" cannot 'restore' (return something to an equal condition as when it was originally manufactured) like I remember folks in the Model A club doing some 40 years ago. I don't guess this shouldn't surprise me because most Dad's today cannot make repairs around their house and most Mom's cannot even cook or sew either! I have been around the restoration hobby for as long as I can remember of my 50+years, and I have seen many trends come & go in this game. Maybe the trend will soon start going back to where most Model A "Restorers" actually start 'rebuilding' (restoring) something on their car instead of 'replacing' something.

.

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

The more things change the more they stay the same. Model "t" had a coil for each cylinder and a crank driven timer which is now the new and better. Vent windows have come and gone. Locking steering wheels have come and gone and have rose from the dead. Twenty one inch tires and wheels have come and gone and are now popular. I am waiting for the wing cap and bare spark plug wires and the up draft to come back. Advertising sells and marketing works on normal people.

[Kurt in NJ]

The model "A" is a reliable car, it's reliability is in the fact that if it breaks down it can be tinkered with and driven home.

A modern elecronic car has a different kind of reliability, it goes a very long way---usually without breaking down, but when it does it gets towed to the shop, then a new module ,or sensor installed (as diagnosed by the computer).

I like the original reliability, but also can see that there is some need for the attempts at installing "modern" reliability, it enables some that can not tinker to drive their A, if it broke it would get towed anyway and they feel more confident to drive because they have "modern" improvements

[denis4x4]

Per-Lux, Inc. bought the Ignitor (now Petronix) electronic ignition from the original inventor back in the seventies. I handled their marking and advertising for many years. The original purpose of the Ignitor was for installation in irrigation field pumps and refer units that ran 24/7. Ryder rental Ford trucks had Ignitors installed at the factory as did smaller UPS trucks. Another big OE user was TowMotor fork lifts.

It's been my experience that FS (and Remund) failures can be directly linked to installer error. I currently have four Ignitor/Petronix equipped cars with tens of thousands of miles with only a single failure. And that was due to the fact that didn't follow the installation directions!

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

When you understand how all the component systems function (both new and old), it's really quite simple. There are physical limitations to the various systems and the more modern ignition and fuel delivery systems extend those limitations dramatically in most cases. In the case of the Model A, the physical limitations far exceed the actual needs. However if you want to have a Model A that will cruise safely and comfortably at 125 mph as my modern car is designed to do then you definitely have some re-engineering to do!

[jerry shook]

Just wondering, why so many a owners are going to more modern things, could it be they are more reliable on the road easer to drive ,they dont need adjusting every time you drive them . Why do ( squat) when you can spend your time enjoying your a. Just wondering. God bless

[steve s]

Originally Posted by denis4x4

... It's been my experience that FS (and Remund) failures can be directly linked to installer error. I currently have four Ignitor/Petronix equipped cars with tens of thousands of miles with only a single failure. And that was due to the fact that didn't follow the installation directions!

Denis,

Do you know what the most specific common errors are? I'm guessing failure to provide a good ground.

Steve

[sturgis 39]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Just wondering, why so many a owners are going to more modern things, could it be they are more reliable on the road easer to drive ,they dont need adjusting every time you drive them . Why do ( squat) when you can spend your time enjoying your a. Just wondering. God bless

It is advertising and egos of most people. Somebody makes a remark about something so they change it to get acceptance from their piers. It is like people that brag about their aluminum radiator. The copper radiator cools almost twice as much as an aluminum radiator but people see them advertised and a buddy has one. There are a lot of sheep following sheep. New is not always better and more reliable.

I have also found people that seem to be religious are the ones you have to watch your ring finger when you shake hands.

[Richard Wilson]

MY experience is that if you buy one electronic ignition you had better buy two. They work fine when they work but when they malfuntion you can not repair on the side of the road. On an overnight club tour several years ago one of our group had his electronic ignition go bad. The Model A was running well and then it quit just like the switch had been turned off. If he had been by himself he would have been stranded 200 miles from home on a very remote country back road. Luckily, we had enough spare pieces in the group to replace the dead electronic ignition system with a "points" distributor and we were on our way.

[CWPASADENA]

Originally Posted by Roadster Rich

I have run the FS Modern Ditributor (6V) for three years. Part way through my first year I tried to start it in the garage and nothing. Returned to FS. Looks like I must have burned out the igniter with the key left on? Don't remember doing that, but FS was excellent. I bought a replacement igniter and they sent back the unit with a new igniter and a spare that I bought. I still love the way it drives, but I keep a totally functional original distributor in the car in case this igniter dies at any time. Can't go wrong dealing with FS

I agree!!!

If you are going to run an electronic distributor, you should also have a good totally functioning spare distributor with you and the necessary tools to change it. There is nothing worse then being stranded away from home on the side of the road trying to diagnose a failed electronic system.

My opinion,

Chris

[jerry shook]

Just wondering, i have a new aluminum radiator in my 31 s/w it was a lot cheeper and cools a lot better. Then the one i had in the car . Am i a sheep following a sheep or am i saving money and improving my (a) . I have 3 (a) 2 with fs ignition,the 2 with fs start and run better.with a lot less problem. (watch that ring finger). God bless

[just plain bill]

I'm enjoying this thread, reading the pros and cons. I have some of each FS, Pertronix conversipons, Mallory's, both converted and points. But I find myself reverting to the old fashioned stuff. In my current engine in my car that only is driven 1/4 mile at a time I have a "bone" stock model "B" distributor, wing cap and all. The last time my car ran a 1/4 mile it was going 82 MPH at the end of the 1/4 and didn't miss a lick. (Old term for an engine not missing) At that time I had the coil from my Ford tractor in the circuit, now I have a 6 volt Mallory Best coil in the circuit. Just love all of the "obsolete" stuff. I had a FS on this engine and it died in the tech line at the Antique Nationals in 2009 after several years off service. Bitch to trouble shoot in the pits.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by jerry shook

Still wondering why cars dont still have the points and condencer, mabe the mechanical brakes ,the updraft carb, or the generator or the 3 speed trans, ( just wondering) god bless

I say we throw away the carburetor and install fuel injection, then we won't have to pull the choke and turn the knob to make the mixture richer for warmup. Ooooh.......the drudgery of having to adjust things to make these old cars start and run!

80 year old technology just can't be any good compared to today's, so I say we modernize and get rid of all the old parts from the carb to the brakes. Wait a minute.....pistons moving up and down is almost 300 year old technology so they must be the first to go. Lets convert to rotary, or even go more modern and convert to electric. No wait, electric's a hundred year old technology also. Maybe we can lay in rails and go to maglev. That should keep us going for awhile.

[Ron Lachniet]

Wow, This opened a real can of worms. I only asked because when I was first married I bought a BSA motor cycle. I worked on that thing for eight hours so we could ride it for three. I then bought a honda and rode it trouble free for years. I love tinkering with things as much as the next guy but I would rather do it on my terms and not in a parking lot fifty miles from home. Thanks

[sturgis 39]

I think BSA motorcycles were made in Britain. All the hoodlums in my neighborhood had some kind of British motorcycle at some time. They were always working on them. The British cars were the same way. The British could not build anything that did not need constant attention. The key word is British! Ford Model "A"s are USA. (kind of rhymes)

I like Tom Wesenberg's reply.

It is your car and you can do anything you want to do to it. Just do not compare a Model "A" to your British made junk. LOL

[denis4x4]

Originally Posted by steve s

Denis,

Do you know what the most specific common errors are? I'm guessing failure to provide a good ground.

Steve

That's the main reason for electronic ignition failure. The second is trying to save a few bucks and not buying the correct coil. Too, leaving the ignition on for long periods of time when the engine is not running certainly is harmful.

Ironically, my project for next week is removing the computer controlled Q-jet carb and distributor on my '85 El Camino and replacing them with old school parts!

[vintage tin]

The Model A ignition is very reliable. If you have a problem it can be fixed on the road. Electronic ignition cannot. I am running the original wiring in my 1952 Ford F1 6 volt system and original wiring and ignition in my Model A. I trust those more than my modern car. I guess I'm a 6 volt man in a 12 volt world. It can only be original once.

[Ron Lachniet]

I was in no way comparing BSA to Model A. I was just trying to say that it is more fun going for a ride if Murphy isn't in the back seat. Electronic ignition just sounded like fewer mechanical parts and no condencer so less problems. Since electronic ignition came out I have never had a single problem ignition like we had years ago. I think some new technology is at least worth considering.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Ron Lachniet

Wow, This opened a real can of worms. I only asked because when I was first married I bought a BSA motor cycle. I worked on that thing for eight hours so we could ride it for three. I then bought a honda and rode it trouble free for years. I love tinkering with things as much as the next guy but I would rather do it on my terms and not in a parking lot fifty miles from home. Thanks

LOL I know the feeling! When I first got out of the Army I bought a riding mower called POLARON, which was made in Michigan City, Indiana. I called that piece of junk my "FIX & MOW" because I had to fix for 6 hours to mow for 3 hours. The only part worth saving on that mower is the starter/generator because it is the same as the ones on my older Cub Cadets, which are real first class mowers.

BTW, to keep this Model A related I use my Cub Cadet to mow a path to my Model A garage. Also I like my trouble free original Model A with points and original coil with it's hot, blue 1/2" spark. If that spark was any hotter It might melt the center electrode.LOL

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

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Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!!
www.bubbashotrodshop.com

"We also offer a new Mallory unit for the Model A curved for auto matic advance. Comes complete with new cap and rotor, single contact for $ 150."

Are you going to add it to your site and show us a picture?

Heres a pic of the unit we use. I take a industrial engine new mallory single point and machine and recurve for the Model T and Model A .
Have some being machined now will be ready for sale in a couple weeks ...