The Ford Barn

Harms Way · 07-05-2011, 07:53 AM

Alright guys,... Heres the deal,...

The Starter on the 26 T roadster gave up,... I took it apart, and the "special bolt" at the end of the Bendix spring had snapped off, I got the stub out of the shaft, and found out the "starter drive sleeve" was broken in two,...

I ordered the new bolts and starter drive sleeve and they arrived a couple days ago,... I was ready to put it together,... And noticed the Bendix Spring had some distortion to it,....

Well,... This is my first stock Model T,... so,.. whats the deal ?,.. do they usually have some distortion to them ?,.. I am sure I can give it a little twist and get it to bolt back on,... But what is the S.O.P.? (Standard operating procedure).

I don't mind ordering a new one (even though the shipping stinks) but will it work if I use the old spring ?,..... I need your wisdom and advice.

(My gut is telling me, no,... it will probably break your other new parts)

I will try to post up pictures later. Thanks

Harms Way · 07-05-2011, 10:30 AM

As promised,.. Here are the pictures of the spring in question,.. Considering that the sleeves travel inside this spring,... I can't help but believe this thing is unusable.

natebeach90 · 07-05-2011, 12:49 PM

im pretty sure allittle distortion is ok, but that is pretty far off. i would just get a new one. better safe then sorry

John Otis · 07-05-2011, 07:42 PM

I agree. Get another one escpecially because it's such a pain in the neck to tear into one to replace it.

joncrane · 07-08-2011, 05:56 AM

1. Did you find the "other half" of the broken bolt? Better be sure to get it out of the pan.

2. Check the starter shaft (armature) to be sure it is still straight. Rotate by hand and eyeball should answer the question.

3. Bendix spring should be replaced.

Model T Club has some pretty good videos on rebuilding and working on the starter/generator electri parts.

Good Luck

Harms Way · 07-08-2011, 10:20 AM

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Thanks guys,...

The one half of the bolt was still stuck in the spring,.. and sheared off pretty even with the armature shaft,... I took a Dermel with a small cutter to put a little slot in the broken off bolt stub, and was able to turn it out with a small screwdriver,.. I found the "special washer" in the cover.

I checked the shaft,.. and it looks and feels to have no run out.

Do most of you guys order from Mac's or Snyders,.... or who?

I ordered from Snyders, shipping on the bolt kit and sleeve was $12.47,.. About 3 bucks more than the cost of the parts. I asked them why they couldn't put it in one of those $5.20 priority boxes from the USPS,.. but they said they couldn't. and assured me they weren't charging me handling.
When the parts showed up it was in one of the $5.20 USPS boxes,.. with postage marked $5.20 right on it.

So,.. who is the best place to order parts from??????

natebeach90 · 07-09-2011, 08:40 AM

i have done some price comparing and snyders part prices is alittle cheaper then snyders. however i dont know how snyders does there shipping.

Harms Way · 07-10-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natebeach90

i have done some price comparing and snyders part prices is alittle cheaper then snyders. however i dont know how snyders does there shipping.

Okay Nate,.... I'm a little confused,....

criswellnk · 07-10-2011, 11:55 AM

As far as ordering parts go for the model T, I have always ordered from Snyders or Chaffins, or if you want original parts, Model T Haven. The prices are pretty standard across the board from vendor to vendor. Buying from one vendor, you might save on one item then pay more for another. For my money it is all about speed and customer service, which ever vendor treats me as though I am an actual valued customer, they get my business. The one vendor that I avoid at all costs (A or T) is Mac's, but I won't go into the reasons here. We as customer can complain about the price of shipping all we want, but unfortunately it will not change. No matter what, I always ask that all orders be shipped by U.S. Postal Service, UPS always charges more and they don't deliver on Saturday.

As for your starter, if the bendix spring is that torqued out of shape, it should be replaced and odds are that the armature shaft is bent. A bend/run-out of 0.010" is a lot and won't get any better. The free running speed of the model T starter is between 3,500 and 3,700 RPM, You will definitly notice any bend in the armature shaft at that RPM more than you would have noticed when spinning it by hand. I don't think that I have ever seen a model T starter that did not have a bent armature shaft.

The starter pictured below had the same problem with a broken bendix bolt being stuck in the armature shaft. When I had it set up in the V-blocks and I prick-punched it, the piece fell right out when I turned it over. The shaft on this one was bent as well and took a little bit of work to straighten out, but now it runs true.

natebeach90 · 07-13-2011, 06:38 PM

i ment to put langs is alittle cheaper them snyders, and i dont know how snyders does there shipping. if u find out that snyders shipping is cheaper then langs id just go with snyders, becuase im talk about a $0.25-$2.00 difference between the two parts companys.

Harms Way · 07-14-2011, 08:52 PM

OK Guys,... Here we go again

I ordered the new spring from Snyders (only $8.47 Shipping ! ) As I'm waiting for it, a Friend gives me a N.O.S. Ford "T" Bendix spring,.. I replaced the spring, Sleeves, special bolts and washers, make a new gasket for the cup cover,... get it all back together.

Turn the key to Battery,.. hit the button, and "shazamm" ( A little Gomer Pyle lingo there

) It fired right up,.... but the starter sounded like it dragged a little, like the bendix wasn't properly disengaging,... I thought I followed proper procedure,... so,... what could it be ?

Now,.. I have to admit,.. I am a little gun-shy at this point,... and I might just be imagining it,.. but something just don't sound right. (However,.. this is the first time I started it with the floorboards removed) ,.....

Soooo,.. How about it?,... did I do a common mistake? Am I just over cautious? This is my first restored car in decades, I'm actually a Hot Rodder ,.. And I got to tell ya',.. I'm thinking of doing something to this Roadster that I don't think you guys would approve of.

So,... What do you think ??????

natebeach90 · 07-16-2011, 12:56 PM

well if the N.O.S bendix spring was a old one its posable that it could be alittle weak. but i feel that the bendix on the old T always sound alittle wierd. you could alsway put the new one from snyders and see if that makes a difference.

07-05-2011, 07:53 AM	#1
Harms Way Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern Mi. Posts: 295	1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? Alright guys,... Heres the deal,... The Starter on the 26 T roadster gave up,... I took it apart, and the "special bolt" at the end of the Bendix spring had snapped off, I got the stub out of the shaft, and found out the "starter drive sleeve" was broken in two,... I ordered the new bolts and starter drive sleeve and they arrived a couple days ago,... I was ready to put it together,... And noticed the Bendix Spring had some distortion to it,.... Well,... This is my first stock Model T,... so,.. whats the deal ?,.. do they usually have some distortion to them ?,.. I am sure I can give it a little twist and get it to bolt back on,... But what is the S.O.P.? (Standard operating procedure). I don't mind ordering a new one (even though the shipping stinks) but will it work if I use the old spring ?,..... I need your wisdom and advice. (My gut is telling me, no,... it will probably break your other new parts) I will try to post up pictures later. Thanks __________________ A sinner saved by Grace,......... Eph. 2:8-9

07-05-2011, 12:49 PM	#3
natebeach90 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: hagerstown IN Posts: 30	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? im pretty sure allittle distortion is ok, but that is pretty far off. i would just get a new one. better safe then sorry

07-05-2011, 07:42 PM	#4
John Otis Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Vermont and Florida Posts: 188	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? I agree. Get another one escpecially because it's such a pain in the neck to tear into one to replace it.

07-08-2011, 05:56 AM	#5
joncrane Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: rochester Michigan Posts: 78	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? 1. Did you find the "other half" of the broken bolt? Better be sure to get it out of the pan. 2. Check the starter shaft (armature) to be sure it is still straight. Rotate by hand and eyeball should answer the question. 3. Bendix spring should be replaced. Model T Club has some pretty good videos on rebuilding and working on the starter/generator electri parts. Good Luck

07-08-2011, 10:20 AM	#6
Harms Way Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern Mi. Posts: 295	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks guys,... The one half of the bolt was still stuck in the spring,.. and sheared off pretty even with the armature shaft,... I took a Dermel with a small cutter to put a little slot in the broken off bolt stub, and was able to turn it out with a small screwdriver,.. I found the "special washer" in the cover. I checked the shaft,.. and it looks and feels to have no run out. Do most of you guys order from Mac's or Snyders,.... or who? I ordered from Snyders, shipping on the bolt kit and sleeve was $12.47,.. About 3 bucks more than the cost of the parts. I asked them why they couldn't put it in one of those $5.20 priority boxes from the USPS,.. but they said they couldn't. and assured me they weren't charging me handling. When the parts showed up it was in one of the $5.20 USPS boxes,.. with postage marked $5.20 right on it. So,.. who is the best place to order parts from?????? __________________ A sinner saved by Grace,......... Eph. 2:8-9 Last edited by Harms Way; 07-08-2011 at 10:26 AM.

07-09-2011, 08:40 AM	#7
natebeach90 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: hagerstown IN Posts: 30	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? i have done some price comparing and snyders part prices is alittle cheaper then snyders. however i dont know how snyders does there shipping.

07-10-2011, 11:55 AM	#9
criswellnk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Detroit Posts: 288	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? As far as ordering parts go for the model T, I have always ordered from Snyders or Chaffins, or if you want original parts, Model T Haven. The prices are pretty standard across the board from vendor to vendor. Buying from one vendor, you might save on one item then pay more for another. For my money it is all about speed and customer service, which ever vendor treats me as though I am an actual valued customer, they get my business. The one vendor that I avoid at all costs (A or T) is Mac's, but I won't go into the reasons here. We as customer can complain about the price of shipping all we want, but unfortunately it will not change. No matter what, I always ask that all orders be shipped by U.S. Postal Service, UPS always charges more and they don't deliver on Saturday. As for your starter, if the bendix spring is that torqued out of shape, it should be replaced and odds are that the armature shaft is bent. A bend/run-out of 0.010" is a lot and won't get any better. The free running speed of the model T starter is between 3,500 and 3,700 RPM, You will definitly notice any bend in the armature shaft at that RPM more than you would have noticed when spinning it by hand. I don't think that I have ever seen a model T starter that did not have a bent armature shaft. The starter pictured below had the same problem with a broken bendix bolt being stuck in the armature shaft. When I had it set up in the V-blocks and I prick-punched it, the piece fell right out when I turned it over. The shaft on this one was bent as well and took a little bit of work to straighten out, but now it runs true. __________________ *"Son, there are two ways to do this, your way and the right way." Thanks dad.* Looking for a copy or reprint of 1932 A.E.A. Universal Catalog of Genuine Electrical Service Parts

07-13-2011, 06:38 PM	#10
natebeach90 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: hagerstown IN Posts: 30	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? i ment to put langs is alittle cheaper them snyders, and i dont know how snyders does there shipping. if u find out that snyders shipping is cheaper then langs id just go with snyders, becuase im talk about a $0.25-$2.00 difference between the two parts companys.

07-14-2011, 08:52 PM	#11
Harms Way Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern Mi. Posts: 295	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? OK Guys,... Here we go again I ordered the new spring from Snyders (only $8.47 Shipping ! ) As I'm waiting for it, a Friend gives me a N.O.S. Ford "T" Bendix spring,.. I replaced the spring, Sleeves, special bolts and washers, make a new gasket for the cup cover,... get it all back together. Turn the key to Battery,.. hit the button, and "shazamm" ( A little Gomer Pyle lingo there ) It fired right up,.... but the starter sounded like it dragged a little, like the bendix wasn't properly disengaging,... I thought I followed proper procedure,... so,... what could it be ? Now,.. I have to admit,.. I am a little gun-shy at this point,... and I might just be imagining it,.. but something just don't sound right. (However,.. this is the first time I started it with the floorboards removed) ,..... Soooo,.. How about it?,... did I do a common mistake? Am I just over cautious? This is my first restored car in decades, I'm actually a Hot Rodder ,.. And I got to tell ya',.. I'm thinking of doing something to this Roadster that I don't think you guys would approve of. So,... What do you think ?????? __________________ A sinner saved by Grace,......... Eph. 2:8-9

07-16-2011, 12:56 PM	#12
natebeach90 Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: hagerstown IN Posts: 30	Re: 1926-27 Starter Bendix spring question ????? well if the N.O.S bendix spring was a old one its posable that it could be alittle weak. but i feel that the bendix on the old T always sound alittle wierd. you could alsway put the new one from snyders and see if that makes a difference.