180 Degree Intake Manifold

[all american boy]

Everybody heard of them? Good.


Anybody know what it means exactly?


You are about to find out.


Take a two barrel V8 intake manifold (factory).


It takes 720 degrees for each cylinder to get an intake pulse.



Each cylinder gets an intake pulse every 180 degrees.


Now you know.


From early 60's Hot Rod magazine 'Carburetion Systems' booklet.


Also says log manifolds are for all out competition.


Gotta go!

[56sedandelivery]

Isn't that the same as a dual plane intake?

[all american boy]

Don't know.


Will read section again tonight.


I been saying we are going to build sheet metal intakes (open plenum) for



these engine.


Little correction.We'd be open to building log manifolds (aluminum).


Reading more about them they don't sound too bad.


Think they fell out of favor because they LOOKED old timey.


Don't think there is anything wrong with the idea that I can see.


That's for racing not street.


Our engines have covered lifter galleries.Don't need the manifold to cover



up valley between cylinder heads.

[KULTULZ]

Rather than having overlapping intake pulses coming into the plenum every 90 degrees as with a single-plane, each side of a dual-plane gets a much cleaner induction pulse every 180 degrees of crank rotation.

That’s why a dual-plane intake is often referred to as a 180-degree manifold. With the induction pulses coming into the carb every 180 degrees (or actually only one-half of the carb in a divided plenum two-plane), the induction pulse seen at the carb is greatly enhanced, especially at low air speed. This translates to further improved lower-rpm carb booster function and atomization, resulting in better low-end output, enhanced drivability, and economy.

SOURCE - https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0601em-intake/

[all american boy]

There is your answer.


Booklet never uses 'dual plane' name.Always 180 degree.



Booklet here says pulses are uneven with a 180 degree manifold.


180 degree manifold allows intake overlap.


So cylinders see uneven charges of fuel and air.


Log manifold eliminates that.


Each cylinder gets an even charge of air/fuel mixture.


Log manifolds work better on 'larger displacement engines available since


1949'.


180 manifolds feed end two cylinders of one bank and middle two of



opposing bank.That's with each 'throat'(book) of carburetor.


So.Think we will give log manifolds a shot.


Have fun! Gotta go!

[all american boy]

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Our 'tin box' one big open chamber intake is back on the table.


Article says 'improvement' to later logs were crossovers.


So.Log manifolds are one big chamber anyhow.


Changing gears here.A more precise way to get an even mixture from

carbs is using one carb per cylinder.

That way there is no overlap from consecutive firing cylinder.

That is doable with two barrel carbs if you have divider in runner.


Easy on Y blocks because intakes are siamesed.


Takes 4 2bbl's.One over each pair of ports.



Gotta go!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

Our 'tin box' one big open chamber intake is back on the table.


Article says 'improvement' to later logs were crossovers.


So.Log manifolds are one big chamber anyhow.


Changing gears here.A more precise way to get an even mixture from

carbs is using one carb per cylinder.

That way there is no overlap from consecutive firing cylinder.

That is doable with two barrel carbs if you have divider in runner.


Easy on Y blocks because intakes are siamesed.


Takes 4 2bbl's.One over each pair of ports.



Gotta go!

Log manifolds are primitive, like log cabins! Technology has moved on. Most log manifolds (at least from back 'in the day' and home made) have abrupt 90 deg. bends instead of a smooth radius, which disrupts air flow.
And what about reversion and fuel stand-off? Also ram tuning (Adjusting runner length for best power at a desired RPM)?

[all american boy]

Quick answer.


This works.


LARGE DISPLACEMENT engine since '49


They mean Olds and Cadillac.You can use a '58 MEL or FE engine.


Log manifold WITH INTERCONNECTS.


Booklet says logs 'came into their own' set up like that.


Booklet says it.We're doing it.That's that!

[Oldmics]

Originally Posted by all american boy

Quick answer

Booklet says it.We're doing it.That's that!

Gopher it !




Oldmics

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

Quick answer.


This works.


LARGE DISPLACEMENT engine since '49


They mean Olds and Cadillac.You can use a '58 MEL or FE engine.


Log manifold WITH INTERCONNECTS.


Booklet says logs 'came into their own' set up like that.


Booklet says it.We're doing it.That's that!

Old school can be fun, no doubt about it. I, too, say go for it! But don't forget: A modern single four barrel intake with a modernized Holley carb will far outperform a log style intake using antiquated Stromberg 97's!!

Check out Engine Masters Antique division: You'll see Y-Block Fords and Lincolns, early Hemis, nailhead Buicks, etc., but not one has a log style intake, nor a small forest of Stromberg 97's!

[all american boy]

'not one has a log style intake, nor a small forest of Stromberg 97's'


From '46 to '53 at the dry lakes north of LA they spent there time


wringing the last ounce of speed out of the flatheads.


I guess that carried over into the early 60's


I am just trying to figure out what the thinking was back then.


Think they had a whole lot more time on their hands.


Speaking of.Hears a little tidbit.


Y blocks (Ford OHV V8's,love that phrase from book!) have heavy valve



gear.


It keeps them from revving up.Karol Miller lightened up all the valve gear


and was revving 'em up to 7,000.


Another tidbit.You 'unshroud the valves' on Y blocks.


Valves are sunk in pockets.You grind down 'walls' for smoother path into combustion



chamber.


Gotta go!

[40 Deluxe]

I guess I've missed your goal for your project. Are you just having fun messing around with old out-dated technology, maybe fine tuning here and there to get a bit more power than they did in the '50's and '60's?
Or are you trying to outrun the new stuff (computerized fuel injection and ignition, coil-on-plug, crank triggered, etc.)? Add in modern port design, camshaft design, combustion chamber shape, etc., and the battle is lost. The fun factor remains, however!
And at Bonneville there are still classes where the old school guys can race each other so all is not lost.

[all american boy]

'goal for your project'


Take apart engine and put it back together.


Keeping it simple and fun.


Build a tube frame to stick it in.


Here is some 'squeezing horse power' 50's and early 60's way.



Boring the block and milling the block and heads.Stroker cranks.

I will post maximum's for Y block.

You can bore a 272 out 80 thousandths to a 292.


In the 80's word was stay away from milling anything.


These books are our guide.Does not seem to be Ford Motorsports guides


for Y block and FE and MEL.

[all american boy]

The most you can mill off Y block heads is 60 thousandths. .060"


Per one of these Hot Rod guidebooks.


Does not say a word about milling block head surface.Thought it did.


Says you can mill .080" off the '54-55 heads to raise compression.


Why those heads can be milled more it does not say.


Says milling .060" off heads raises compression ratio one point.


Have fun! Need to go now!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by all american boy

The most you can mill off Y block heads is 60 thousandths. .060"


Per one of these Hot Rod guidebooks.


Does not say a word about milling block head surface.Thought it did.


Says you can mill .080" off the '54-55 heads to raise compression.


Why those heads can be milled more it does not say.


Says milling .060" off heads raises compression ratio one point.


Have fun! Need to go now!

Does it say how much to mill off the intake face to maintain manifold alignment?

[JeffB2]

You might want to ask that here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/fordyblock/ Several Y-Block builders hang out there.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by all american boy

...
Why those heads can be milled more it does not say.
...

Quoted below from John Mummert's website, the Cylinder Head page...
This refers to a reinforcing 'post' cast into the head to help stabilize the surface.
http://ford-y-block.com/cylinderheadchart.htm

"Do to the thinness of the deck surface of some Y-Block heads, particularly the ECZ-G heads, it is recommended that unposted heads not be milled more than .025". Posted heads have been milled up to .045" without trouble.
Posting Started May 1957."

http://ford-y-block.com/index.html

[all american boy]

'Does it say how much to mill off the intake face to maintain manifold alignment? '


It says mill 1.5 times off the manifold flange what you mill off of the head.


Mill .060" off the head then you mill .090" off the intake manifold flange.


Name of book is 'How to Hop Up Your Engine' from December 1959.


'John Mummert's website'


Then if you keep gathering advice there might be more answers.


We will 'live or die' with these 50's and early 60's books.


You have to decide what to do and not analyze on and on.


Have fun!

[rotorwrench]

Folks that experimented with inlet manifolds back in the day like Barney Navarro found that the open plenum types which include log types or tunnel ram types, look like it's raining fuel inside during most any rpm other than WOT. They work fine at "wide open throttle" but the efficiency goes to pot everywhere else. Fuel drips and pools around in there and the burn is not as good inside the combustion chamber due to that. The stuff works OK for drag racing but not so well on the street. The dual plane has a better tune for the porting and keeps the fuel in an atomized state a lot better but still no where near as good as tuned port fuel injection.

[all american boy]

'They work fine at "wide open throttle"'


Going in tube chassis car.Yep.That will be fine.


Will have some pictures coming up of car like we're building.


Look up Holly Hedricks rear engine roadster.


That's very close to what we're building.


Tin box intake plans we already have for Y block.


Will try one 4 'throat' (old books call them that!) and two 4 throats.


Synchronized linkage NOT progressive linkage.


Plus race gas.Got plenty of it down the road aways.



Have fun!