Overdrive solenoids

[zoegrant]

Is there anyone who rebuilds overdrive solenoids or does one have to buy a new one ?

[zoegrant]

Can a 12v solenoid be used on a 6v system ?

[JimNNN]

I bought a new one from fifth ave. auto parts in Clay Center, KS. He offers both 6 and 12 volt versions (the voltages obviously aren't interchangeable in application.) Some people online have said that you CAN'T use voltage reducers or transformers or whatever on the electrical overdrive stuff, so I bought the 6 volt version to fit my 6v system. I have no idea if that is accurate, but that's what I did.



I've seen 6 and 12 v solenoids for the BW R10 (I believe that's what you have, as I recall) available from other places to, sometimes at a little bit less money. I bought the solenoid from this company because the owner of the company apparently knows something these old od units. If you buy from him, he says, "call if you have any problems"... I gotta tell you though, I did call him about problems and he's definitely a man of few words...very few. Not real helpful, when all is said and done.



As far as rebuilt units, the source I bought from had no core exchanges, which leads me to believe that there probably aren't any or many rebuilt units out there but I could be wrong.


BTW, DON'T forget to buy the solenoid shaft seal when you buy the solenoid. You're supposed to change those out whenever you remove the solenoid. They're about 8 bucks.


Okay, one other thing: To remove the solenoid, you remove the two bolts, and turn the solenoid about a quarter turn to the right to get the keyed shaft out of the pawl. To put a new one in, you first have to activate the solenoid by powering grounding it (read instructions) - either through the relay or the battery - to extend the shaft. You put it back in and turn it about a quarter turn to the left...which is reverse the removal process. This should engage it in the pawl. You can then remove the ground and the retracting shaft will pull the solenoid up the mounting surface on the OD housing...which let's you know the shaft is properly locked into the pawl.

[zoegrant]

JimNNN ..thanks for all the information...

What I am up against here is this...with the OD cable pushed in, the car acts as though it is in overdrive as the car will free wheel after 28 mph, and when I give the car some gas and then let off the gas it should go into OD but it does not but will stay in direct drive and if I lift off the gas it will free wheel
The kickdown switch will not kick down to go into passing gear.
I cant seem to find out which section of the OD system has the problem.
THESE ARE THE TEST I HAVE RUN.
The relay clicks as it should....the governor bench tested good with test light coming on after gear reaching speed using a wire wheel to spin it....the solenoid tested good with plunger extending when direct current from a battery was applied to the solenoid.....the test light has been applied on each terminal of the kick down and is as follows...
With key on and test light grounded and light touched to connections as follows..
Front Red wire clicks rely
Front White wire clicks rely
Front White wire with kickdown depressed, no click
Both rear wires, white & red wire on the rear of the kickdown no power.. and also the rear green & orange wire no power
The white wire that goes to the governor has power.
On the relay the only wire with no power is the blue wire that goes to the solenoid.
ONE LAST THING..I cannot get the solenoid to click no matter what test I do, UNLESS put direct current to it from the battery...I know this is a lot but this is my situation.

[40cpe]

Private message and email sent. Call me

[JimNNN]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

What I am up against here is this...with the OD cable pushed in, the car acts as though it is in overdrive as the car will free wheel after 28 mph, and when I give the car some gas and then let off the gas it should go into OD but it does not but will stay in direct drive and if I lift off the gas it will free wheel

Your solenoid is extending as it should, but does the solenoid only fail to "click" when it is actually installed into the OD unit? Your situation is where my car is at now. I believe I was having trouble finding a good ground, but eventually resolved that issue. Might be your problem? If your solenoid shaft is extending under power (consistently and reliably), I'm thinking it doesn't need to be replaced.

One thing to try: with the solenoid out, take a very narrow screw driver or long metal rod and try pushing the pawl (what the solenoid shaft presses against and actuates.) How far will it go in? According to Randy at Fifth Ave., the screwdriver shaft or rod should be able to push the pawl in about 3/8" or so. If it only goes 1/8 to 1/4" or so, there may be a mechanical problem, rather than an electrical problem...one that can keep a working solenoid from clicking when it is installed. That blue wire from the relay to the solenoid SHOULD have power though, if your car is wired like mine. You might have a kickdown switch issue, too. but I can't say about that.

[zoegrant]

Jim...how did you establish a good ground ? What exactly did you do ?
Will try to push shaft in maybe tomorrow or Sunday, will keep you posted.

[flatheadron]

I'm a little confused about the freewheeling. If the unit is truly in direct drive, there is no freewheeling. The overrunning clutch is effective only in overdrive but what your describing sounds like it's going into a neutral. The overrunning clutch allows for smoother operation when in O/D. The overrunning clutch will freewheel if you back off the gas at 5-10 mph if it's truly in O/D. There's a Borg-Warner diagram that may help with the wiring, send me a private message and I'll see if I can forward it to you.

[40cpe]

The transmission will free wheel when the overdrive is available (handle pushed in) but not engaged. When the car reaches 28 mph, the accelerator is released, and the transmission drops into overdrive, there is no free wheeling as the engine is mechanically tied to the rear axle. If the transmission free wheels at higher speeds, it is in direct drive (non-overdrive) but there is no engine braking because of the sprag (over running) clutch.

[Anteek29]

Zoegrant - Make sure the shift rail lever on the tranny is fully engaged when the OD knob on the dash is pushed in.

[JimNNN]

Seems not all grounds are created equal, and what I've found when working with my solenoid is that several places on the car where I could get a ground good enough for a test lamp weren't good enough for a new solenoid to work. Eventually I ran a lead down from where the engine ground patches to the body at the firewall to ensure a good ground. The other end of the lead went to the one of the solenoid mounting bolts between the bolt head and the flange (not between the mating surfaces of the sol flange and the OD housing, of course.) Once I did that, however, the mating surface of the OD housing seemed to start providing an adequate ground. I'm not an electrician (obviously) so I'm not even going to pretend to understand how that happened.



My car is definitely doing what zoegrant's car is doing...freewheeling without the high gear (overdrive) engaging. Because I can't push the pawl in much more than 3/16" with a screw driver, Randy of 5th Ave, and I figured that blocker ring (or whatever it's called) might possibly be out of alignment with the pawl. There is a way to possibly fix that without removing and disassembling the whole overdrive unit, but it doesn't always work. That's a bridge not worth crossing til you get to it, though.



Sounds like Zoegrant may be having electrical issues which will be much less of a problem to deal with.

[zoegrant]

FLATHEADRON.. and....40CPE....for some reason I was under the impression that if freewheeling takes place that I was in overdrive...I now know that I was and am in direct drive. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
ANTEEK29....I double checked under the car to make sure the lever is fully seated back to the rear of the tranny. It is.
JIMNNN....I will install a heavier ground wire directly to the solenoid bolt to see if that will help the solenoid engage...When I run a wire from the battery to the solenoid directly the plunger does engage. Other than that, it will not engage.
Cannot work on the car today as I have to pick up my wife at the airport, she has been gone 2 weeks and the house needs to be put back in good shape.

[flatheadron]

If you are truly in direct drive then there is a gear that slides into the planetary to lock the unit in direct. The overrunning clutch is locked out. If it still free wheels then I agree that something internal is not engaging as it should. I'll define freewheeling as no engine braking under decal and the ability to float when not accelerating, like an automatic does in drive range first gear. One thing I wanted to ask, you are not using a synthetic lubricant in the unit are you? there have been some reports that synthetic lubes will cause the overrunning clutch not to lock up. Nothing conclusive but something to consider. Even though Ford in the era said to use SAE 80 gear oil, Borg-Warner recommended SAE40 engine oil and cautions against using any type of hypoid oil. Back in the gear shops had a barrel of API GL2 or GL3 gear oil that was not hypoid (GL4 or 5) for use in manual transmissions. I recommend SAE 40 engine oil.

[JimNNN]

Zoegrant, one thing I will say: If that blue wire from the relay to the solenoid isn't transmitting power (i.e., hooking up the test lamp to the blue wire at the solenoid end, then grounding the other lead of the lamp...and the lamp doesn't light up) I'd say that's probably the issue to address even before the supplementary grounding lead.



Either the blue wire is bad, or the relay has a problem. According to Randy Rundle's repair guide for the Borg Warner, the relay can click when it's grounded and still be at fault. Checking that the fuse mounted on the relay is still good and making sure the ignition key is turned to the on position when checking the blue wire with a test lamp is the place to start. I'm sorry, but my old ford wagon and the manuals for it are in storage right now so I don't have ready access to them. I'm kind of going off of memory right now and trying not to steer you wrong.


Also, if there was oil inside your solenoid cover due to a poor seal at the shaft/plunger, then that can make solenoids fail or work inconsistently.

[zoegrant]

RON...I am using mineral oil 85-90 weight, GL1....also when I pull the cable out it definitely is in direct drive so I am inclined to think all is well internally...
JimNNN….I replaced the blue wire and no change on engagement of solenoid.

RON and 40CPE....A NEW DEVELOPMENT...with the THSW jumped to ground and the key on, the relay fuse will glow orange but it does not blow.... and the blue wire to solenoid has power but still no engagement of the solenoid....does that sound like the solenoid points are grounded ?

[40cpe]

Have you verified that the governor activates the relay at about 28 mph? If so, I would take it on a short test drive. That will increase the voltage to the solenoid because of the charging system AND have the mechanicals moving. If that doesn't work, I think I would change the solenoid with a working spare.

[Anteek29]

I'd run a jumper wire to a multimeter or a test light inside the car to verify the governor activates during a test drive.

[rotorwrench]

Your test methods with a test light are flawed ways to test. A person would need a volt ohm meter and check each wire plus each switch for continuity. A test light is just good check for power at a terminal and that is only if you know it should have power there.

A lot of operating solenoids just need the points in side them cleaned. If one of the two coils is bad, the operating solenoid is bad. But it has to be tested in situ to see if all the functions are working. I've purchased perfectly good ones from flea-pay on several occasions. If yours is the standard type as defined on the 5th Avenue internet garage site then they fit more than just Ford cars. A lot of manufacturers used the same units.

[Anteek29]

[QUOTE=rotorwrench;1824490]Your test methods with a test light are flawed ways to test. A person would need a volt ohm meter and check each wire plus each switch for continuity. A test light is just good check for power at a terminal and that is only if you know it should have power there.

M thinking is voltage at the solenoid at 28+ mph should confirm all the electricals in the string are operational up to the solenoid?

[rotorwrench]

I was commenting on the original test method of the OP. Using a test light can work well enough if a person knows where power should be but a lot of the operational function is provided by ground path function. A test light can provide a ground path where there would normally not be one until the control switch closes.

The operating solenoid only needs to be tested on the bench to see if the coils work properly on the #4 terminal or blue wire. The orange or orange with blue tracer on terminal #6 is just for the ground path to the ignition coil. An electrical diagram of the circuit is imperative for testing on the electrical system. If all the electrical functions are correct then the problem is inside the transmission. The pawl has to hit the balk ring to cock the trigger of the OD system. When a person lets off the gas the pawl can then go all the way into the ring and engage the the overdrive. If there is something wrong with the pawl, balk ring, lock out rail, the sun gear, or the planetary set up then it may not function.

A person should get the manual for the car they have and study it. These pubs are available on CD/DVD now days and aren't too expensive.