Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2019, 06:13 PM   #1
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Do you have a Snyder’s insert Rod on the shelf?
I would like to know the crank end Bore x width dimensions.

"Tried to get ahold of a spec sheet but one was not available.....

Thank you!
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 06:39 PM   #2
Kurt in NJ
Senior Member
 
Kurt in NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
Posts: 6,140
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

I am interested in the specs too, curious if a stock rod can be bored /side clearanced to fit---
Kurt in NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-14-2019, 06:57 PM   #3
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Yes, that’s where I’m heading Kurt.
The advantage of Snyder’s bearings is they have the thrust face built in......
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 07:26 PM   #4
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,975
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
I am interested in the specs too, curious if a stock rod can be bored /side clearanced to fit---
Do not remember the size, but I have done it. Still working as far as I know.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 09:47 AM   #5
nick c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 260
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Just went to Snyders, it say's the A-6202 bearing can be fitted to the original con rod, boring it out to 1.624/1.625, and remove all babbitt from thrust face, braze up and finish to a width of 1.580 less .003/.005. My question is why braze to 1.580 when the original width of rod is 1.625?
thanks
nick c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 10:27 AM   #6
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Could be, the thrust area of the rod is angled back to hold the babbitt. To get straight sides for the insert you may need to braze and machine to get correct width.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 11:19 AM   #7
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: SnyderÂ’s Inserted Rod Size?

Thanks for the info.
More thoughts:
Using AER or Scat bearings a thrust face must be built up.
Snyder claims their bearings (pictured) have front and rear thrust faces. The 1.580 would not allow enough for the shell. Something doesn't make sense.
So the rod bore is the same as an AER rod. AER bearings are .082 thick. Snyders bearings should be the same thickness and the thrust side should carry the same thickness.
Close as i can tell Fords rods were finished to a 1.615 width
A stock rod with the babbitt removed is about 1.55 wide. Needing about .10 removed to allow for the insert. But this is speculation.

Still hoping for the full connecting rod spec. before i order a set.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg E8395E28-DF70-43AE-AC7D-22E6F0E40E9D.jpeg (17.1 KB, 14 views)
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 12:48 PM   #8
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 877
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Have you considered buying new rods from AER? They don't have the thrust on the sides, but are a much stronger rod, balance weight is evenly matched, and shoulder bolts to alignment cap with the rod. I don't see an advantage to the side thrust.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #9
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Albeit not a bad thing AERs rods are machined to produce the thrust. With these bearings the thrust is renewed when the inserts are installed and i have a bunch of stock rods to work with.
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2019, 07:19 PM   #10
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

I know doing it yourself is fun, but at 90$ each for the rods, how much is your time worth? And yes I fully understand the bragging rights saying you did it yourself. If you have the tools and know how and can find the info you need, go for it. I was told today to do the job it should be bronze welded on the thrust area, faced on both sides equally, bored and honed. Then of course you will need a jig to keep your centers for machining.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 07:50 AM   #11
chap52
Senior Member
 
chap52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,771
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Call Snyders and ask them how it all works. Chap
chap52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 09:14 AM   #12
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

I called Snyder's, they did not know. No technical information so the third person i spoke to did measure a rod but what they gave me was in accurate.
Ok, i’ll give them another chance, I sent a written request for technical info, but in the meanwhile.....

......still looking for someone with a connecting rod in hand.
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca

Last edited by CA Victoria; 11-16-2019 at 09:37 AM.
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 06:02 PM   #13
Bruce of MN
Senior Member
 
Bruce of MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,395
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

I tried googling aer rods and couldn’t find anything. Any suggestions?
Bruce of MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 06:28 PM   #14
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.com/rods.htm
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 07:36 PM   #15
Bruce of MN
Senior Member
 
Bruce of MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,395
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA Victoria View Post
Thanks!
Bruce of MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 12:43 AM   #16
PC/SR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,277
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Whatever you decide, have the balance of the rods checked by your own local machinist after you get the sizes right, unless you can do it yourself. Do Not Not Not accept anyone's statement or promise on specs or sizes, no matter who they are. This is not a knock on the makers or suppliers, but is just acknowledging that mistakes, mis-readings, and errors occur. Also, items made to general specs may or may not fit your application within specs after 90 years of wear and modifications. IE, does the thrust face fit your bearing and provide the proper clearance. (I have too many stories of errors in the specs of parts supplied, even by reputable machinists/suppliers, and I would guess that others here who actually do double check do too.) You can see the problem by the questions here to the very reasonable questions you asked. Measure everything, twice.
PC/SR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 07:28 AM   #17
chap52
Senior Member
 
chap52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Marana Arizona
Posts: 1,771
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Surprised that Snyder's didn't have an immediate answer for you? Seems like a valid inquiry and you might want to shop around... Chap
chap52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 08:53 AM   #18
George Miller
Senior Member
 
George Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 2,975
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

There is a lot more to it than just boring out the rod to the insert size. You have to have it in the right location, must be parallel with the wrist pin, rod bolts need to be torqued to the right torque. How are you going to hold it to bore it.
George Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 09:22 AM   #19
CA Victoria
Senior Member
 
CA Victoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,109
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

Thank you PC.
The terms matched and balanced are sometimes incorrectly interchanged when talking about connecting rod weight. About half of the rods and caps I have prepped have been modified, to a production rebuilder this equates into time and customer $$ spent to build a matched set before machining can begin. Although I do not have this balance to maintain I am driving toward being able to restore a set of Henry’s connecting rods machined to accept inserted bearings. It would be easy to write a check, the path to working thru the aspects of re engineering and machining the rods is what I enjoy about our Model A hobby.
It has taken 5 years to work thru boring and line honing the block for inserts, I hope to get this done and an engine back in my car before I pass on!!!
__________________
Tim
Downtown, Ca
CA Victoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 01:52 PM   #20
nick c
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 260
Default Re: Snyder’s Inserted Rod Size?

I've thought about this process for years. To bore these rod out, I would first sit down at a drafting table and design a fixture. If you look at the original rods you'll see that Ford used 3 points to hold and machine the rods. 2 are on each side of the big end just above the parting line, and are offset, 1 looks like it is .187" above the parting line and the other looks like .250" above the parting line, the 3rd one is above the rist pin bore.
nick c is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:16 AM.