Antifreeze in oil

[56servi]

Short History: I bought this car last Nov. It was in a garage fire & the paint was burned off & windows cracked. I drove the car onto the trailer to bring it home & then drove it into the garage at my house. In March I drove it back on the trailer to take to the painters. The engine started & ran fine.

Sat I bought a crank/lug handle at the swap meet. I tried to turn the engine with the handle & it wouldn't turn. I decided to drain the oil & saw a lot of antifreeze in the oil. I then removed the head & still couldn't turn the engine with crank. Next removed the oil pan manifolds & valve cover. Still wouldn't turn. Removed the Oil Pimp & the engine would now turn over easily.

Why would it turn over after removing oil pump & not before?
How does antifreeze get in oil pan?

When I removed the head I put some Marvel Oil in the cylinders to see if it would stay on top of the pistons & it did.

[1931 flamingo]

What did the head gasket look like? Any visible cracks in the top deck area? Cracks in the valve chamber area?
It's been posted here before that a/freeze in the oil usually destroys the babbitt, probably not what you want to hear. Others will chime in I'm sure.
Paul in CT

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Not really a lot to go on so anything from here on out will be speculation but I suspect water got into the pan from a leaking head gasket. I doubt the antifreeze has affected anything in the lower end yet. I also doubt many of us have experience in knowing how one of those silicone gaskets will react to being in a fire but it appears the silicone has been hot enough to discolor or spread in certain areas. It is also possible that the cylinder rings stuck on the walls and it was just by circumstance that after several attempts, it broke free just after the oil pump was removed.

Since it is down that far, my recommendation is to open & check the oil pump, tighten up the bottom end, check all the surfaces and reassemble. I would also check the timing gear condition. It might be easier to remove the engine and re-detail since you are that far along.

[56servi]

Looking at the crank I don't see anything unusual but not sure what I am looking at. I think I can paint the engine OK with it in the chassis. Most everything is out of the way.

If I put a new head gasket on can I check for leaks by hooking up a hose to the water inlet?

[V4F]

nice crank !

[Dave in MN]

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I have used these gaskets since they came out. The gasket looks "typical" as to how they appear when removed from an operating engine. It is normal for portions of the gasket silicone and paper to bond to the head or block. I think Brent is correct regarding the rings sticking to the wall...most likely they just happened to break loose about the time the pump was removed.
It appears you had some leakage between cylinders as evidence of carbon covers the fire ring between cylinders 1&2 and 3&4. One side is definitely worse than the other. I can't tell which side is the top on the gasket from the photos...One side of the gasket will state "this side up". I would check the head to see if the leaking areas are collapsed/warped. If so, it will require milling until straight.
If the head is not flat, the erosion of the gasket between cylinders is the likely cause of the antifreeze in the oil. When using this type of gasket, follow the instructions as to re-torquing and do not exceed 55 ftlb of torque.
Good Day!

[Farrell In Vancouver]

No cotter pins on the rod caps?

[Jerry in Shasta]

I saw a piston that had been run in a cracked block, where the antifreeze got into the pan. The rings were froozen into the piston like they were epoxied.

The other pistons could not be removed from the block.

JB

[56servi]

I cleaned the bottom of the head & the top of the block looking for cracks. Nothing I could see on either. There is a scratch on top of the block but it doesn't seem to be very deep.
I put layout dye on the head and then used a file to drag across it to check for flatness. Looks good.
I filled the water jacket in the block (bolted a plate over the outlet) & put paper towel in the valve chamber. After sitting a day I see no dampness on the towels.
I am going with the assumption that the head gasket was bad. I ordered a new engine rebuild gasket set today. I got the "Bestgasket" brand as several on here have recommended.
I will be reading Les Andrews manual on the engine to learn more.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[James Rogers]

POS head gasket leaking between #1-2 and #3-4. I suggest using a copper gasket with copper coat to seal it.

BTW, when you removed the body, did you loosen #8 head nut to detach the popout cable? That will fill #3 and 4 almost every time. I speak from experience.

[Keith True]

That head is a high compression head,and I bet if you check it correctly you will find it domed in the two spots James Rogers pointed out.You can see where the compression was leaking out in those two spots on your gasket.You will need a machinist's straight edge,not a home depot square.I also think you're going to find it leaked while sitting,not so much running.These things have no coolant pressure,so while they are running with a compression leak into a water passage the water can't get in.After it is shut off it can ooze in there.It could wiggle down around the rings,and maybe fetch them up on the way.Anti-freeze will squeeze through places water or oil won't fit through.If the water inlet on the side leaks it will dribble straight down into the dipstick hole too.Make sure the oil pump/distributer drive gear hasn't fetched up while sitting around too.

[56servi]

I did remove the clamp on #8 stud. I only took the top nut off but can't say that the bottom nut didn't move.
I took the head to my friends machine shop and checked the flatness using a straight edge & feeler guage. One spot at the outside was low. With the straight edge across the head I could get a .0025 feeler gage under the edge. A .003 would not go. I also shined a flashlight under the edge & could only see light in this one spot. I ordered the Bestgasket kit with the copper gasket. I can get the head cut (flattened) for $30 if needed.
Will the new gasket seal the low spot or should I get the head flat.

[Dave in MN]

You just bought the car/engine so you do not know the history on the original torque or more importantly the re-torque of the head. With the silicone head gaskets, three times is the minimum number these gaskets need to be re-torqued. Often I do them 5 times in the first 500 miles. The pictures you posted of the gasket indicate there was blowby between cylinders. When this happens it is just a short time of running before the water jacket sealing components are eroded enough to allow water to enter a cylinder when sitting.
When in doubt, have the head milled just enough to assure a flat surface.
Good luck with the fix!

[Special Coupe Frank]

Double-check the babbit: it should be silvery-bright and shiny. If it looks dark-grey, with a few bright-specks here and there, and has a rough surface, it has been exposed to anti-freeze and destroyed.

If the babbit is good, best to remove the rods / pistons and crank, and flush / brush all oil passages out, and make certain there are no traces of anti-freeze left behind. Same goes for cam and valve gallery.

If you run that engine on contaminated babbit, you will trash that crank.

Good luck !

SC Frank