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Old 03-29-2018, 07:43 AM   #1
woofa.express
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Default running hot

woofa express runs hot. where do I go from here.?


had radiator cleaned including rodding out with both top and bottom tanks removed. ran cleaner through engine until clean and refilled with rust inhibitor.
fitted Snyder radiator shroud and 5 blade plastic fan.
removed splash plates.
when temp exceeds 25C ie 75F it will spill overboard a gallon and half when speed is 40mph.
car has travelled 2000 miles since engine overhaul and I believe I have timed it correctly using the tool that fits on distributor rotor and turning it til it hits number 4 plug lead post. forgot the name of the tool.
where do I go from here?
thankyou all in anticipation of your responses. cheers, gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: running hot

Is the water actually boiling over at 100+c or is the water pump poring more water into the radiator than it can handle. Two different problems.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: running hot

Not enough clearance on the pistons? There is a whole thread about a guys rebuilt engine doing the same. Tried everything. Didn't stop overheating until cylinder and piston clearance was corrected.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: running hot

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Is the water actually boiling over at 100+c or is the water pump poring more water into the radiator than it can handle. Two different problems.
thankyou for your response. it looses water when the temp reaches the horizontal mark at the bottom of the circular look through hole on the cap gauge. I would think that would be 100C. ??
Some time ago a 28 owner told me he had his water pump shaved down. It was probably for this reason??
with thanks, gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: running hot

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Is the water actually boiling over at 100+c or is the water pump poring more water into the radiator than it can handle. Two different problems.


thankyou for your response. it looses water when the temp reaches the horizontal mark at the bottom of the circular look through hole on the cap gauge. I would think that would be 100C. ??
Some time ago a 28 owner told me he had his water pump shaved down. It was probably for this reason??
with thanks, gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: running hot

My 28 sent coolant out the overflow, until I flushed the block and radiator. My 29 sent coolant out the overflow because the cheap 2 row radiator couldn't handle the flow.


I would start by installing a thermostat. Trimming down the water pump fins is OK also. Be sure to use antifreeze, as it also raises the boiling point. Be sure timing is correct, and I only set it by the factory method. Pull the handle half way down as soon as the engine starts, and about 2/3 down while driving at 45 MPH with a stock engine. A bit less advance for a high compression head.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: running hot

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Not enough clearance on the pistons? There is a whole thread about a guys rebuilt engine doing the same. Tried everything. Didn't stop overheating until cylinder and piston clearance was corrected.


thankyou for your response. I am new to forums and this site. can't find where I locate any threads on this issue. have gone to find site and typed in running hot and other derivatives meaning same but can't find. with thousands of threads and probably hundreds of pages it would be a monumental job locating. could you help me please. with thanks, gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: running hot

Are you maybe over filling the radiator? They tend to find there proper level the quit throwing the water out.
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:53 AM   #9
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Running lean will cause it to run hot
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Old 03-29-2018, 10:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: running hot

Fought heating issues for many months and tried everything. In my case the fins of the radiator had separated just enough from the tubes to cause the rad. to NOT radiate the heat. New Brassworks rad solved the problem.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: running hot

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Fought heating issues for many months and tried everything. In my case the fins of the radiator had separated just enough from the tubes to cause the rad. to NOT radiate the heat. New Brassworks rad solved the problem.
yup or too much paint on the radiator will cause poor thermal exhange.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: running hot

Radiator cap thermometers are generally not very accurate. You might try sticking some other kind of thermometer (some kind of cooking thermometer, e.g.) in there when it's hot to see what temp you've really got. I'm not saying yours is not accurate, but usually they're aren't very.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: running hot

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thankyou for your response. I am new to forums and this site. can't find where I locate any threads on this issue. have gone to find site and typed in running hot and other derivatives meaning same but can't find. with thousands of threads and probably hundreds of pages it would be a monumental job locating. could you help me please. with thanks, gary
This is the thread I was thinking about: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224132
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: running hot

Wooofa, Are there any other symptoms that it's running hot other than water overflowing? ? If it runs Ok but water is pushed out it could be as has been suggested 1) possibly running within correct temp range but the expansion of the water is causing it to come out of theoverflow.? ( neverfill above the baffle of the rad when cold ) 2) over-turbulence of waterpump 3) small leak in the cylinder head gasket causing some pressure in the water system .. head needs retorquing several times after gasket replacement or head off. [I've experienced 1) and 3) with my years of A-ing but never 2) ]
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: running hot

Good Afternoon...I would suggest that you locate the nearest Model A Club and ask to speak to their Mechanic. Make arrangements for that person to look at your A and figure out what is going on. It really is the best way. It is good to belong to a club and it is much easier to maintain your A after the over heating problem has been corrected by someone who has seen the problem before. Ernie
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:43 PM   #16
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Default Re: running hot

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Good Afternoon...I would suggest that you locate the nearest Model A Club and ask to speak to their Mechanic. Make arrangements for that person to look at your A and figure out what is going on. It really is the best way. It is good to belong to a club and it is much easier to maintain your A after the over heating problem has been corrected by someone who has seen the problem before. Ernie
yes Ernie, I agree. I am in the Victorian (Australia) club which is based in the capital, Melbourne. unfortunately it is 180 miles from where I live. there are two guys in the semi proximity that are on my mind and if I can't solve it I'll contact them. they are too old to pick up spanners but could offer good commentary. thanks Ernie. cheers, gary
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: running hot

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Wooofa, Are there any other symptoms that it's running hot other than water overflowing? ? If it runs Ok but water is pushed out it could be as has been suggested 1) possibly running within correct temp range but the expansion of the water is causing it to come out of theoverflow.? ( neverfill above the baffle of the rad when cold ) 2) over-turbulence of waterpump 3) small leak in the cylinder head gasket causing some pressure in the water system .. head needs retorquing several times after gasket replacement or head off. [I've experienced 1) and 3) with my years of A-ing but never 2) ]
Hi john, yes good suggestion. it no longer comes out the filling cap since I put new gasket there. and woofa is my dog. but I am not offended. cheers, gary. woofa is tied up to the spare wheel in my photograph.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: running hot

Gary-Post #12 notes that the radiator temp gauges are not always accurate. I agree.
Please get a dial or digital meat thermometer and measure the temperature. Knowing the temperature for sure will help.

Also did you check the lever coming out of the distributor body to make sure that it has full travel and touches each side of the opening when the lever is moved fully both up and down. If that does not have full travel you will have troubles setting the timing correctly. A critical step to have correct before setting the timing.

When searching this site it will not recognize words in you search query that are less than 4 letters. Can make it challenging to find stuff.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: running hot

woofa,
I don't have a thermostat, yet, but after a short drive (3 or 4 miles) I use an infrared thermometer to check temps. I usually find the front of the head around 145F, the rear about 150F and the lower hose pipe about 125F. Infrared thermometers can be found online for less than $20 US. You should borrow or buy one to verify what the motor is doing.
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: running hot

Woofa, I tried to send you a PM but can't. I am in the Model A club of Vic too and if you PM me your phone number, I'll ring you and talk about this.
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Old 03-30-2018, 07:37 AM   #21
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Default Re: running hot

" I believe I have timed it correctly using the tool that fits on distributor rotor and turning it til it hits number 4 plug lead post. forgot the name of the tool."

If your referring to the "Nu-Rex" tool, here is a how to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGAKWX158H8
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: running hot

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" I believe I have timed it correctly using the tool that fits on distributor rotor and turning it til it hits number 4 plug lead post. forgot the name of the tool."

If your referring to the "Nu-Rex" tool, here is a how to... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGAKWX158H8


thankyou Arizona
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:22 AM   #23
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Default Re: running hot

If your radiator was really rodded out and all clear, it will flow more than the pump can put out. No need to cut the impeller down. That just makes it a lower output pump.
Make sure that you don't have a heavy coat of paint on the fins. Make sure that timing is correct and you are not running real lean.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #24
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Default Re: running hot

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woofa,
I don't have a thermostat, yet, but after a short drive (3 or 4 miles) I use an infrared thermometer to check temps. I usually find the front of the head around 145F, the rear about 150F and the lower hose pipe about 125F. Infrared thermometers can be found online for less than $20 US. You should borrow or buy one to verify what the motor is doing.
thankyou for that. I didn't know that such a thing existed however I have seen an attendant at a super market walking around 'shooting' refrigerated products. I ordered same within 5 minutes of reading your response and I am grateful for that. thankyou, gary.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: running hot

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Wooofa, Are there any other symptoms that it's running hot other than water overflowing? ? If it runs Ok but water is pushed out it could be as has been suggested 1) possibly running within correct temp range but the expansion of the water is causing it to come out of theoverflow.? ( neverfill above the baffle of the rad when cold ) 2) over-turbulence of waterpump 3) small leak in the cylinder head gasket causing some pressure in the water system .. head needs retorquing several times after gasket replacement or head off. [I've experienced 1) and 3) with my years of A-ing but never 2) ]


yes there are other problems John. pinging when accelerating. I haven't mentioned this problem and shant until I replace the faulty push rods to the distributor.
the other problem that has driven me crazy is rattly floor, made up of tongue and grove timber. however this was solved when I found a wheel spanner hiding in an inconspicuous place behind my seat back.


with thanks, gary mexted
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:58 AM   #26
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Default Re: running hot

About those infrared thermometers: They are fantastic, but... Please note that they sense reflected/radiated heat, from the surface you point them at. That surface is what reflects/radiates the heat. For example, a flat black surface will reflect/radiate heat more readily than will a white surface. A flat surface will reflect better than a rough or angular surface. This can fool you if you are not careful. Move it around a bit, and take the highest reading you can get out of it as the closest to what is the actual heat. Many people get fooled by this issue... (I use one on HVAC systems, and generally spray some flat black paint on whatever I'm checking, or apply black tape. Makes a huge difference sometimes.)
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Old 03-30-2018, 02:15 PM   #27
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I think John Buckley is correct, you have a leaking head gasket and the combustion gases are building up in the block and pushing the water up and out the overflow pipe. This will happen even when the motor is cool. Are there any bubbles coming up in the radiator fill that you can see when the car is running and the cap is off?
You may need to change the head gasket, check for flat head surface and use Permatex spray head gasket sealer and torque the head many times as the engine heats up. Ed



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Old 03-30-2018, 05:11 PM   #28
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Default Re: running hot

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Originally Posted by woofa.express View Post
yes there are other problems John. pinging when accelerating. I haven't mentioned this problem and shant until I replace the faulty push rods to the distributor.
the other problem that has driven me crazy is rattly floor, made up of tongue and grove timber. however this was solved when I found a wheel spanner hiding in an inconspicuous place behind my seat back.


with thanks, gary mexted
If your pinging under acceleration something is probably not right with the timing or with how much you are advancing it.
The infrared thermometers have their pluses and minuses. Hard to go wrong with a cheap meat thermometer placed directly into the water of the radiator.
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Old 03-30-2018, 06:25 PM   #29
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Water entering the combustion chamber can give a sound like pinging - another indicator of a bad head gasket. Have you done a compression test? Are you getting excessive water vapour out of the exhaust? How long has it been since you re torqued the head?
I'm leaning towards a blown head gasket. Do you have a spare? Do you have a torque wrench?
Sorry for so many questions but the more we know, the better the advice.
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Old 03-30-2018, 09:40 PM   #30
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Default Re: running hot

To go along with 1crosscut, When you drive where do you move the spark lever?
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Old 03-31-2018, 01:59 AM   #31
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Default Re: running hot

My engine had perfect timing, but pinged until I cleaned the block. All the junk built up in the rear of the block caused a hot spot, then while driving 45 to 50 on the freeway for 40 miles, some of that junk came loose and blocked the radiator tubes.


After flushing the block and radiator, it's fine now. And you can't flush it with a garden hose. Do a search to see how I flushed mine.
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Old 03-31-2018, 09:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: running hot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug01EW7UZGM
Watch this video to understand the Model A cooling system. Lots of voodoo ideas out there that will only make your problem worse. If you are pinging, you are likely pulling your advance down too far. Keep lifting the spark handle a click or two until it doesn't ping. Not likely coolant getting INTO the combustion chamber, if it was that bad you would have steam out the exhaust. Tighten/retorque head often until no movement of head nuts. Let the coolant find its level, just make sure it stays just above the tubes. A restriction in the upper radiator hose (thermostat) will raise the pressure slightly in the engine block, therefore raising your boiling/flash point. Don't grind down the water pump impeller, turbulence in the coolant is a GOOD thing. Good Luck, don't jump to the worst conclusion, troubleshoot and diagnose first.
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Old 03-31-2018, 06:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug01EW7UZGM
Watch this video to understand the Model A cooling system. Lots of voodoo ideas out there that will only make your problem worse. If you are pinging, you are likely pulling your advance down too far. Keep lifting the spark handle a click or two until it doesn't ping. Not likely coolant getting INTO the combustion chamber, if it was that bad you would have steam out the exhaust. Tighten/retorque head often until no movement of head nuts. Let the coolant find its level, just make sure it stays just above the tubes. A restriction in the upper radiator hose (thermostat) will raise the pressure slightly in the engine block, therefore raising your boiling/flash point. Don't grind down the water pump impeller, turbulence in the coolant is a GOOD thing. Good Luck, don't jump to the worst conclusion, troubleshoot and diagnose first.
That's right and by the time you had enough vapour coming out the exhaust to see it, you'd be seeing bubbles in the top tank. A look at plugs will tell you if water is entering the cylinder. A clean plug indicates water.
Agree on not grinding down the impeller.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the Model A cross fire between #3 and #4. That can give pinging and cause overheating as well as a drop in power. I know, I've experienced it and it took a while for me to wake up to what the problem was. Your cure may as simple as a new distributor body or as I did on the side of the road when I did wake up, a long enough plug lead on #3 to give a big insulating air gap between the body and lead so the cross fire doesn't happen. That fix got me 800 miles home, then a new body went on. Sweet as a nut since.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:38 PM   #34
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Default Re: running hot

Well I fixed the problem. Bought new radiators for each car. One pressurised and one normal. The temp cannot be read on the pressurised ( I don't have a dedicated gauge) but on the normal one with the thermometer on the radiator cap the red dye only just showed when on an extensive climb. I'm pleased I went that way.
Both cars were fitted with new head gaskets and had any rust scrapped from the head and block. Fitted the return flow with socks and they each caught a good table spoon of rust flake. That was better than returning it to new radiators. I should have done purchased new radiators much earlier. gary
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