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06-16-2020, 10:38 PM | #1 |
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Airtex E8902 Debacle
Installed an AirtexE8902 electric fuel pump (the gold standard, right?) to prime the Holley 94 2-barrel carb when the ’48 Ford Tudor Super Deluxe Flathead has been sitting for a few hours or a few days. Wired it into a toggle switch and then into the ignition switch. Turned on the ignition, flipped the toggle expecting a SpaceX launch moment and got a fizzle. The pump runs and is quiet, but will not pump a drop of fuel to the carb. Called Airtex technical support and this is what I was told. The “newer” Airtex E8902 is a weaker pump than it used to be before Airtex was purchased by TRICO (Jan 2019), which also makes the Carter pump. It doesn’t have the umph that the old one had. The instructions said to locate the pump “near the fuel tank” and “on the frame or other firm body member no more than 24” above the floor of the fuel tank.” My fuel line exits the tank close to it’s floor right into the semi-enclosed chassis, over the rear axle, continuing inside the chassis under the floorboard. The line runs 5’ to the closest spot I could mount the pump to the chassis and has about a 12” climb at most at a 45 degree angle right out of the tank to clear the axle before it descends to the pump. The pump is actually at about the same level as the fuel tank. Seems to me that my installation met the criteria, but I guess the climb over the axle and distance from the tank to the pump was just too much to overcome. Wish that I had known this before all the hours of reading, researching, ordering and installing. Guess that my next move will be to purchase some metal fuel line and some fittings, and put everything back to stock again. Close, but no cigar. Maybe it’s time for a Chevy 350 crate engine? Only kidding!
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06-16-2020, 10:50 PM | #2 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I bought my '51 in 1987; after experiencing some "problems", I added an electric fuel pump about 1993. A few years after that, I discovered these forums, did a little research, and obtained a properly rebuilt pump. I installed it. and it worked so well, I removed the electric pump a couple of years later. I haven't missed it since.
I will admit that I live in North Central Minnesota and this is a solution up here. I can't make any judgments for you guys that live in areas with consistent 100 degree plus days. |
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06-17-2020, 04:01 AM | #3 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Sounds very strange...have you opened up the line before fuelpump and let it pump free ?
That it couldn´t overcome the 2 checkvalves in the pump is odd. Not by chance a clogged fuelfilter in there providing an aircushion it´s working against... |
06-17-2020, 04:29 AM | #4 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Any pump I ever installed was at the lowest part of the fuel line as close as possible to the tank. This keeps the pump always in prime.
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06-17-2020, 04:50 AM | #5 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Hate to say it but, I’m not surprised.
My Airtex 8902 was installed in my car about 30 years ago. So, thinking it was about time, I decided to replace it with a new one a few months ago. I installed it in the same spot as the old one. When I flipped the switch on it ran for a few seconds and died. I pulled it out and put the 30 year old one back in. Btw: I removed my mechanical pump a few years ago and depend totally on the airtex.
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06-17-2020, 10:47 AM | #6 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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Gramps. PS didn't know that about the airtex pump, it was the last one I used. |
06-17-2020, 01:54 PM | #7 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Electric pumps are good pushers but poor suckers. Sounds like the loop over the axle is the problem here.
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06-17-2020, 04:49 PM | #8 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Inside the frame rail just in front of the left rear wheel is accessible to the fuel line, well protected, and low enough that any functioning electric pump will pull the fuel out of the tank, even if it has run out and there is air in the line. I know this from experience (see phooto).
The Mr. Gasket 42S is low pressure (3.5 psi), and allows the mechanical pump to pull fuel through it when the electric pump is off. It has worked fine for five years, but I carry a spare anyway. Put a service loop in the hose both in front and behind the pump, for ease of installation and replacement. You can use two small vice grips to pinch off the flexible fuel line loops when changing the pump or the filter, thereby avoiding fuel running down your arm, or having to install valves, which introduce their own failure points. |
06-17-2020, 09:09 PM | #9 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Geez mine is just mounted on the firewall as a priming pump , Ive had no problems with it .
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06-17-2020, 09:23 PM | #10 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Airtex E8905 Debacle update #1. Took the fuel pump out from under the car to test if it was sucking and pushing properly. Had the inlet (fuel filter end) hose in a container of fuel (representing the fuel tank) and the outlet (pump end) hose in an empty container (representing the carb). No sucking, no flow, just a lot of bubbles in the container of fuel. I suspected the pump was working in reverse, so flipped it around backasswards and wella…….sucked and blew like a champ. The fuel filter was either installed on the wrong end of the pump at the factory, or the pump motor is running backwards. How’s that for quality control? To reiterate, I simply turned the pump/filter around backwards (contrary to the official printed instructions and picture) and it works great. Will talk to the technical support rep tomorrow and see what he says. I can move the fuel filter to the opposite end of the pump and all should be well. I don’t really want to wait on a new one, which may not even be offered. I paid $33 for this rig delivered to my front door, so it’s not a huge investment. I would just like to hook it up, have it work properly and be done with it. I’ll let you know how this works out.
Once I’m using it to prime the carb, will the pump stop on it’s own when the fuel line to the carb is full and then I can turn the toggle switch off, or will it be a guess on my part? I thought that I’ve read on this forum that you have to listen for the pump to stop working and then turn it off. Thanks for everyone’s comments. |
06-17-2020, 11:23 PM | #11 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
No you have to turn off.
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06-18-2020, 08:24 AM | #12 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I use a "momentary" toggle switch to activate my Airtex E8902 pump. Just hold the switch in the "on" position until the engine starts...then release the switch and it will automatically switch to the "off" position. Often times I hold the toggle switch in the "on" position for 5 to 10 seconds (after the car has been sitting for several months) then release the switch and then try the ignition and the car usually starts right up.
Pat |
06-18-2020, 08:54 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-18-2020, 09:05 AM | #14 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Aren't those Airtex electric pumps polarity sensitive? The directions I've seen direct you to reverse the wire and ground when installing on a positive ground car. If installed with the wrong polarity, would the pump motor run backward? Just asking...
Ken |
06-18-2020, 09:32 AM | #15 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-18-2020, 09:43 AM | #16 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Airtex E8902 Debacle Update #2. This is exactly what I woke up this morning thinking. In testing the pump yesterday it operated backwards, so my plan this morning is to reverse the wiring connections and see what happens. My guess is that it will work perfectly. I have a call into Airtex tech support, but havenÂ’t linked up with them yet. Thanks so much for your input.
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06-18-2020, 10:23 AM | #17 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
If the pump is solenoid type with checkvalves...it shouldn´t pump backwards any way you hook it up.
Isn´t the pumps usually marked in/out ?? |
06-18-2020, 10:17 PM | #18 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Airtex E8902 Debacle Update #3. I woke up this morning thinking that my Ford has a 6 volt positive ground electrical system. I bet if I were to reverse the polarity on the ground and power wires that little sucker/pusher pump would probably spring right to life. I did and it did. It works fine. I wish the installation instructions had mentioned this anomaly. It sure would have saved me a lot of time and worry. I guess I’m a dumbass too in that I didn’t think of this earlier. Reminds me of another attempt at improving the Ford’s reliability that went south initially. I purchased a Pertronics electronic ignition and burned that sucker up pretty quickly. Come to find out that you need to ditch the old solid wire copper spark plug wires with a Pertronics and use some modern carbon core wires to keep from frying the unit. Again, nothing was mentioned about this pertinent information in the installation instructions. If I live long enough and keep this Ford, I just one day may qualify for my ASE mechanic’s certification? Ha, not likely, but I have learned a lot!
Thanks to everyone for jumping in there with helpful comments. Happy motoring. |
06-19-2020, 07:18 AM | #19 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Glad to hear the situation was resolved.
Paul in CT |
06-19-2020, 01:41 PM | #20 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-19-2020, 09:34 PM | #21 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Thanks. That's good to know if I ever go back to electronic ignition. Points ignition is working just fine now.
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06-20-2020, 01:06 PM | #22 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I put an Airtex pump on a Curtis Munoz that has a Cad with three two barrel carbs.
It is very quiet and does the job, however that was fifteen years ago. I have installed maybe thirty or more cheap pumps and they all worked just as well, but make more noise. My F1 V8 has no stock pump. I run it on a cheap electric pump. I had the local radiator shop run two fuel lines out the top of the tank that is behind the seat. One main used line is about four inches short of reaching the bottom of the tank. The other line goes to the bottom corner of the right end of the tank. When I run out of gas on the main line I switch over to the other line which has its own fuel pump. That way I have a reserve fuel supply and also an emergency pump is case the main one quits. Both pumps are mounted on the left fram rail beside the engine. They pull gas from the bottom of the tank out the top and down to the pumps with no problem. If I run them dry they don’t need to be primed. I paid $20 for each pump. I’ve been using the truck that way for five years. I would guess I’ve installed another thirty or forty cheap pumps in the fuel line between the tank and mechanical pump just to prime the carb when I worked for a car collector that had 400 cars, half of which were Fords and Mercury’s with 6 Lincoln V12s. Also did three on flathead Cadillacs as those cars are known for starving fuel on steep mountain roads. |
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06-20-2020, 05:28 PM | #23 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
If you are installing on a 6 volt + ground you must reverse the wires. I installed one 15 years ago (still working) and I believe the instructions of that old pump mentioned switching wires when + ground.
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06-28-2020, 03:18 PM | #24 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Quote:
Do I like my Airtex pump? Oh heck yes! It pumps like crazy and is super quiet. |
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06-28-2020, 08:22 PM | #25 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
The instruction sheet doesn't have (+)s and (-)s on it? What does it say, just power and ground? Interesting.
If anyone else is interested, the Amazon site has an installation video. The pump itself if marked for the (+) wire and the video online explains toward the end positive vs negative ground. https://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8902-.../dp/B005E9DKWW Last edited by JSeery; 06-28-2020 at 09:38 PM. |
06-29-2020, 08:13 AM | #26 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-30-2020, 05:35 AM | #27 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Here's how I rigged the one on my '48. I have since replaced the clamps with better ones and the pump pictured with an AIRTEX E8016S. I still intend to install a shutoff valve before the filter. I do not use a mechanical pump at all. It's wired through an oil pressure safety switch and then to the ignition switch. My cold start routine is to turn the key to the accessory position and listen for the pumping to slow, pull the choke and turn the key to start.
Last edited by Ritzy1; 06-30-2020 at 05:49 AM. |
06-30-2020, 06:52 AM | #28 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Ritzy1: is that a copper line??
Paul in CT |
06-30-2020, 11:09 PM | #29 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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07-01-2020, 01:59 AM | #30 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Al, I am an auto electrician retired and the first thing I think about when fitting electrical components is weather it is polarity specific. Those Airtex pumps only connect one way and are marked as such. Positive ground cars can screw up your thinking. I have fitted a few of these pumps to vintage cars and they work very well. With your carb problem, unbolt it off your engine an sit it on your clean workbench. Fill the float bowl and leave it sit for a day or two and watch for leaks. Good luck, Regards Kevin.
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07-01-2020, 04:38 AM | #31 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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07-01-2020, 05:50 PM | #32 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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07-04-2020, 12:18 AM | #33 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Hey, thanks for everyone's help.
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06-07-2023, 10:34 AM | #34 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Has anyone found a source for the Airtex E8902 fuel pump recently?
After placing a few calls, I learned that Airtex was punched by Trico, and officially went out of business in Jan of 2023. They also punched Carter. I would like to buy one, for a back up to the one I currently have installed, and has worked perfectly for the last 12 years. Thank you, Roy |
06-08-2023, 12:01 AM | #35 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Quote:
GB
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06-08-2023, 03:17 AM | #36 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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First Brands Group is the new name for Trico. They acquired a bunch of companies, starting a few years ago. As with all such acquisitions, product lines are "rationalized," based upon total sales. Low sales "velocity" equals good bye part. That's why certain items go the way of the dodo bird. Even at half the pay, I'm happy to be out of that industry after 30-odd years of that crap.... https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-brands-llc/ |
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06-08-2023, 11:23 AM | #37 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I use Fasco (Bendix) electric fuel pumps. Reliable.
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06-11-2023, 12:07 PM | #38 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-11-2023, 01:42 PM | #39 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
You are correct- Facet - my mistake in spelling. But it looks like the Bendix pump.
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06-11-2023, 08:35 PM | #40 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-23-2023, 07:42 PM | #41 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I drive 98% of the time, with the factory dual action mechanical pump, in the car. I use it to fill the float bowl, after sitting for a long period of time and blowing the vapor lock bubbles through the system when that occurs.
Well since it appears Airtex E8902 electric fuel pumps are no more, I think I may have found the replacement or at least a backup for mine (that is performing beautifully by the way). The requirements are: 6 volt pos ground, flow through design, works with modern gas, and can be used as a primary or primer pump. Yes it's made in China. But for all intensive purposes it appears to be the same design as the E8902 and have the same specks, so I bought one and tested it and it works as advertised. From my tests with a multi meter, it appears the motor is isolated from the housing. Interesting, as to how they advertise it, as to application. https://www.amazon.com/AUTOKAY-Elect...e%2C118&sr=1-5 |
06-23-2023, 08:24 PM | #42 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
It sure looks like the Airtex. I ordered one as a spare. Thanks Merc.
Ken
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06-23-2023, 11:27 PM | #43 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
It looks like a number of companies sell similar 6 Volt fuel pumps on Amazon. They look pretty much identical and some are quite a bit cheaper than Autokay's.
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06-24-2023, 07:52 AM | #44 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-24-2023, 07:53 AM | #45 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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06-24-2023, 08:57 AM | #46 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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Quote:
You may have to use a pressure regulator with this pump. Stay Safe! Pat |
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06-24-2023, 09:12 AM | #47 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I agree, if you use it full time, but other wise if it is is only used for filling the float bowl or clearing vapor lock, I think it could be sued with out a regulator. The Airtex had similar pressure specks and I have use it for 13 years without out a regulator. But maybe rather safe than sorry.
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06-24-2023, 02:17 PM | #48 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
It pays to research the prices on this type of pump. There is a Wide variety of prices. all different for the same pump.
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06-25-2023, 12:08 PM | #49 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Fords ran for years as designed. As long as I have kept my stock pumps working properly I haven’t had a problem in over 40 years. People seem to want to bandage the problem with electric pumps.
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10-06-2023, 07:21 PM | #50 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I have been driving flat heads for 45 years.I have never owned an electric pump.If everything is right,whats the purpose?
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10-06-2023, 07:45 PM | #51 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Regarding your question of when to turn the pump off, with my Airtex there is a distinct sound of the pump slowing down as the carb needle valve closes. That’s when I shut the pump off and try to start the motor. My ‘53 has two 94 carbs, so it takes what I’m guessing l to be 20+ seconds. I’ve had no problems in 15 years with my Airtex, but it’s used only for priming.
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10-06-2023, 08:09 PM | #52 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
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10-08-2023, 11:34 AM | #53 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
One purpose is to not have to grind on the starter when the car has sat for a long period of time and the fuel has evaporated out of the bowls. I am going to add one to my 32 Cabriolet for just this purpose and use the mechanical pump the rest of the time.
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10-08-2023, 12:18 PM | #54 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
About 25 years ago, I removed the electric pump from my '51 and bought a $.29 condiment squeeze bottle at the Dollar Store. The squeeze bottle doesn't seem to mind being filled with gas, and it takes minimal effort to remove the air cleaner and give it a squirt when needed.
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10-08-2023, 02:35 PM | #55 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
The electric pump comes in handy, when you are driving along and you get a good case or vapor lock and the engine begins to slow down. I then simply flip on the switch to the pump and the engine picks right back up and you are on your way. I usually leave it on or about a minute, then turn it off and the mechanical pump takes over again.
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10-09-2023, 07:29 PM | #56 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I've used this on my '35 now for three years. Works great! Mounted underneath on the driver's inside frame rail. Fuel filter and ball valve cutoff in line, toggle switch under dash.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/29306153683...mis&media=COPY |
10-09-2023, 08:06 PM | #57 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Quote:
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10-10-2023, 11:28 AM | #58 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
BobR, Where did you get the ball valve cutoff? I have not installed my pump yet and all my work is done on my back in the yard. The thought of gas down the arm is unpleasant. A good leakproof cutoff is what I need to have when changing the filter. JPL
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10-10-2023, 12:59 PM | #59 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
I have a ball valve on one of my cars but not on the others. I slip rubber hose over the jaws of a pair of vice grips, adjust the vice grip tension and squeeze the rubber hose adjacent to the fuel filter. Works great for me.
Last edited by glennpm; 10-10-2023 at 01:25 PM. |
10-10-2023, 02:42 PM | #60 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Check out the big brain on Glenn!
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10-10-2023, 02:51 PM | #61 |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Thanks Pete
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10-10-2023, 04:43 PM | #62 | |
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Quote:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...tton+&_sacat=0 Last edited by BobR35; 10-10-2023 at 04:50 PM. |
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10-10-2023, 05:55 PM | #63 | |
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Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,141
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Quote:
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
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10-10-2023, 08:04 PM | #64 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Marlboro, NY
Posts: 98
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Re: Airtex E8902 Debacle
Thank You, Bob, Glenn, and of course, PeteH, who always, always makes sure that the visually challenged get a good picture to look at! JPL
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